Paracletus

There are madmen in the US that I am personally afraid will get power considering their arsenal..the American Taliban is very real, but I hope the Americans will never vote them in because we will be ****ed in the process of bringing about rapture...

This is true, however, you could debate that the percent of GDP..the US is in fact not as generous as you make her out to be. I am not anti or pro US, but I do wish their team america world police attitude would calm down a little. But I suppose it's a somewhat deeply ingrained cultural element to it too.


I'd also like to argue about the US military industrial complex. It's a substantial aspect of their economy, they are hooked on war and oil. They are militarily superior to all countries, no doubt.


I think this goes for anyone who has their country invaded. I think Saddam was not defended because he was a dick. But Iran seems different to me. I am unsure what the popular support of the regime is, but if any country decided to invade them, I'm quite certain the people of Iran would resist. They seem like a proud people. And I personally stand against intervention anywhere. It creates superficial powers with little legitimacy. People in power after revolutions tend to garner more support.

Norm_uk

What's terrible about a country looking after itself and it's people exactly? Especially a country that invents a shed load of beneficial technology and who gives more money than the whole EU combined to charity. People are feeding their children simply because of USA donations to the food aid programs....how much did Iran or the massively rich Saudi and Bahrain and Kuwait give? How much does Russia do to help the worlds worst off?

It seems you'd rather have seen the Soviets win the Cold War than Uncle Sam and the Allies. Are you a Communist? A cultural Marxist perhaps?

Did Michael Moore get on the forums without anyone knowing?

They went to war for a number of reasons. Amoung them were suspected WMD, links between Sadaam and some terrorist groups and the fact that Sadaam was an evil piece of shit no one mourned when he died.

Their failure was a clear plan for cleaning up the mess afterwards, not in the invasion.

You want me to list reasons why for Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea etc? Will you actually read and take them on board?

Proud of being a fence sitter scared of terrorist retaliation in your own back yard for putting down mad dictators and terrorists. Each to their own. Iraq should have been invaded in the 90s...Bush actually followed through what his father and then Clinton put into place.

You mean as opposed to buying the party line of peace in a world of armed madmen and sucking up to dictators. We had a chap called Chamberlain who did that...the result wasn't pretty.

Show me how Iranian gays, women and political dissidents have the same rights as American and Israeli citizens. Show me the gay pride parade in Tehran is bigger than the one in Tel Aviv. Show me the fair and free elections. show me how many convicted criminals are stoned to death in Israel or the USA...

If you were the world boss you'd be assasinated within a day of being on the job - or kept on the payroll of the Party - like the peace movement in the 60s - classic Soviet psi-ops. (and I got that from the horse's mouth, Stanislav Lunev, Vladimir Bukovsky, Oleg Kalugin, Sergei Tretyakayov and other top Soviets have confirmed this and how successful it was). I wonder which OPEC nation and/or dictatorship is funding the anti-war movements in the West these days now the Soviets are out of the picture?

The world is not a nice and pretty place full of idealists. It's full of oppurtunists who rarely have any morals and tend to subscribe to rather nasty ideologies that justify their oppression of the weak.

Education will only work if it is secular and involves women on an equal level. When women are emancipated we see less poverty and more reasoning because women tend to prefer to see their sons become doctors rather than soldiers.

N.

guuuude

To be very honest i feel sorry for you and your very limited and complete manipulated point of view!

I know im here in British expats forum and i also know your government follow the americans blind, but you guys should really open your eyes and look from both sides to the story, then and only then it MAY makes sense to discuss with you!

fence sitters haha because we have the balls to say no to the amis??? Distgusting!!!! The evidence, mass destructions weappons was fake and you know this, no sry you dont but you should!!

BUT one final sentence, the american have the right to do everything for their own people and their economy even if the went to war in a complete different part of the world??

So then the Germany should go middle east as well and start war because it will be good for our economy????

Ok good night useless to discuss with you!!

Oyibopeppeh

No, you'll be starting another war in Europe again, because that's what you're good at....

Norm_uk

If that happens so will most of the developed world, in fact we in Europe would probably suffer worse than the USA, which has far more domestic resources and a lower rate of population sucking from the State's tit like we do in Europe. We'll see massive civil unrest at best - total war at worst. Millions will die probably.

Of course if you actually looked at the USA with your own instead of though Michael Moore's eyes you'd know they are starting to get on board with renewable technology, better nuclear energy and plenty of R&D into new energy generation ideas. A replacement for oil will come from oil guzzling economies in the West or Far East because they have the brainpower and money to research it and the most to loose when oil run out or becomes too expensive to be viable anymore.

If you personally don't like oil switch off your laptop, sell your car, buy a bike and don't buy imported food.

Even China is looking ahead. Again, you seem to think the USA is run entirely by complete morons who have no access to proper research and design technologies or who cannot attract scientists who can solve this problem. There are already political movements to end dependance on oil from hostile regimes...the seeds have been sown. People are sick of pandering to nasty theocratic and dictatorial countries just to be able to drive their car and have heating or aircon.


There is another way:
The emancipation of women from cultures and religions who dictate they are nothing more than baby making machines.
The complete separation of religion and government.
Increased fair trade all over the world.

The more you trade with someone the more you have to loose in a war - it's kept the US and China at peace far better than the Cold War crap we lived through as children.

As for the next generation - my impression was that Germans are dying out because they are not having enough children. Maybe you should re-think that statement and read Thilo Sarrazin's book about how your own culture and people are at a crossroad right now.

I hope so too...but Iran would do well to open it's nuclear program up fully and stop hold "Death to America and Israel" days...calling for the destruction of sovereign nations isn't really helpful is it?

N.

Norm_uk

Good? They lost twice?

N.

Oyibopeppeh

Thrice, if we also count 1966....

Norm_uk

Funny, I could say the same thing...and back it up with more than Mr Moore's drivel.
Follow them blind do we?
So who should we follow? You? Pol Pot? Mao? Ahmadinejad? The King of Saudi Arabia? Stalin? Ourselves? (we had a bigger Empire than they do...would you like to see that return?) Maybe we should follow Germany...stop breeding and apologise for something our grandfathers did?

You provide criticism but give no alternatives except to proclaim peace over and over again...do you think peace with men like Hitler could be achieved by talking and flowers? How about Napoleon - could he be bargained with? Genghis Khan? Pol Pot?

But the reason for taking out Sadaam was not just about WMD...and it was a problem that went back to the 90s really, even earlier. Germany doesn't want to get involved...fine. Just don't sit there heckling countries who try to do something when you won't lift a finger yourselves. We'll write you off ok? Keep quiet and pretend you're not there.

Most people think charity begins at home I suppose. Then again how much money, medicine and infrastructure has the US donated in the past 50 years? A lot more than Germany or the whole EU combined I'll wager. You have a very one sided view of things...you sound almost Soviet really. Then again Marx and Engels were products of your team weren't they?

This isn't a discussion - it's a rant and a desperate attempt to defend a one sided hatred of the USA without accepting any balance or fairness from someone who holds neo-conservative views and is very occasionally guilty of thinking them through slightly rather than watching Michael Moore and Zeitgeist or listening to cultural Marxist professors and dhimmis lecture on the evils of western civillisation and the "great Satan", the USA>

N.

Norm_uk

Actually don't read anything I post - as usual Mr Hitchens has said it better sometime before:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcWrAxOWG-8

Peace and love

N.

benzonar

I remember the "peaceful" Germans during the first Gulf War. Whilst the German based UK troops were doing their jobs in The Gulf as sanctioned by our elected Government - the friendly German public were abusing and attacking the wives and children that were left behind. Physical attacks on cars, houses, wives and children were common place.

In fact I remember being on a school trip to Koln when we passed an anti-war protest in the main platz. One of my mates was handed a leaflet and when he asked what is was in English he was unceremoniously punched in the face by one of your peace protesters.

As to the oil thing, the German economy relies on oil heavily as a result of your car manufacturing. You don't have any yourself which is one of the reasons why you kicked off WWII to try and get some of your own.

The reasons why the Germans are generally so anti-war these days is because the Americans did such a good job deprogramming you as a nation away from your militaristic tendencies - as was also done in Japan. You have a lot to be grateful for towards the US, best you remember that.

Although not sure how good a job they did regarding your need to rule Europe - your Mittel Europa tendencies seem to be coming through at the moment under Merkel.

benzonar

As for Iran, I'm pretty convinced something will kick off this year - the Iranians only today warned the US not to send its Carrier group back into the Gulf after they left to observe the display of Iranian "super" weapons in the last week. They said there would be consequences

Personally the Iranian elections in March could be the catalyst, we will see more unrest and instability - and after what has happened elsewhere it may give a number of countries a good excuse to exert some Libyan type protection via a conglomerate of the UN/NATO/Arab League.

shiva

The 5th fleet left the gulf for two reasons, number two was to piss of the Iranians number one was to gain space. A carrier group in the gulf is a target in the Indian ocean it's virtually unstoppable. The most awesome piece of power projection ever and the Iranians just let themselves get boxed into the gulf by it. US naval tactics 1 iranian naval tactics 0

If it does kick off we should hear bandar Abbas go up...... Not good

auzdafluff

I wonder if they realised that at the time. I can just imagine the naval commanders f'ing and blinding.

shiva

They couldn't have stopped them even if they wanted too. In the event of any conflict I give the Iranian navy two days at most. The US can sit in the Indian ocean and pretty mix finish it without having eyes on. Unlike Iraq or Afghanistan a conflict with Iran would allow the US to use its stand off capability which is truly terrifying in its power.

Debowing

I personally would be very happy if the US attacked Iran. It is an evil regime and needs to be destroyed. It is bad for the Gulf and the for the World. The Gulf Arabs would be better off if Iran is fixed as was Iraq.

However the US would find that Iran is a more formidable enemy to what they are used too. The US must gather support from the Arab World before attacking Iran and the Arabs will not offer that openly.

So Iran, will prefer to maintain some friendly relations with the Gulf Countries and in doing so these countries should be safe. If the Arabs offer their full support for USA, then they should brace for some attacks from Iran.

In the end of course, Iran will be defeated and that would generate more stability in the region.

Like I said, the Iran regime must be destroyed, one way or the other.