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-   -   Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr (https://britishexpats.com/forum/middle-east-60/expat-package-comparable-%C2%A3120-000-yr-509749/)

welrifai Jan 28th 2008 1:20 pm

Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 
After having been in the UK for the last 14 months (and the US prior to that), it is likely that I'm moving to Dubai in March.

I'm trying to find out what income I would need to maintain my current standard of living. I am single 26 year old male and will be taking a regional management position for a Silicon Valley company.

Current situation in London, England
=====================================
Income: £120,000/year
Housing: 1 bedroom flat in Islington
Automobile: None
Savings: £20,000 (only 3 years out of Uni...)


Desired situation in Dubai
=====================================
Housing: 1 bedroom flat in Jumeirah Palms, or somewhere walking distance to the shore. Should have a pool and gym. Close to Dubai Internet City, where I'll be working.
Automobile: A nice new convertible!

Can you give me some idea what this type of lifestyle requires in terms of income? Is it true that rents are usually paid up front for the year? Are flats rented with/without furniture? Can you think of any "surprise" expenses I will incur that aren't typical in the UK or US?

Drop me an email at welrifai [at] gmail [dot] com.

I've seen numbers that suggest that I could enjoy this lifestyle on £40,000/yr... is that true? Should I expect my package to pay housing, auto, and health care?

Thanks!

Wael

Mr Moleskins Jan 28th 2008 2:24 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 
I was enjoying reading your thread until you said you were going to get a Boxter. Now I just can't take you seriously...:)

welrifai Jan 28th 2008 2:26 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by Mr Moleskins (Post 5848995)
I was enjoying reading your thread until you said you were going to get a Boxter. Now I just can't take you seriously...:)

I can't be splashing out on a Lambo or a Mas :-). I'm 26, and need to save £60,000 for my MBA in the next 18 months :-). Boxster is a bit fun (if a bit girly), without breaking the bank! What would you buy on £35,000?

Madam Medusa Jan 28th 2008 2:27 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by Mr Moleskins (Post 5848995)
I was enjoying reading your thread until you said you were going to get a Boxter. Now I just can't take you seriously...:)

hahahaha...you just took the words right out of my mouth...

MM, xx

welrifai Jan 28th 2008 2:28 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by welrifai (Post 5849007)
I can't be splashing out on a Lambo or a Mas :-). I'm 26, and need to save £60,000 for my MBA in the next 18 months :-). Boxster is a bit fun (if a bit girly), without breaking the bank! What would you buy on £35,000?

and don't tell me a BMW/Merc... I couldn't be a more stereotypical Lebanese expatriate after having lived in Europe if I had a BMW or Merc.

welrifai Jan 28th 2008 2:32 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by Mr Moleskins (Post 5848995)
I was enjoying reading your thread until you said you were going to get a Boxter. Now I just can't take you seriously...:)

There you go - Now it's just a convertible... not a Boxster.

lionheart Jan 28th 2008 2:49 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 
Three years out of university and earning GBP120K per year? Not another Nick Leeson or the latest French version are you?

welrifai Jan 28th 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by lionheart (Post 5849083)
Three years out of university and earning GBP120K per year? Not another Nick Leeson or the latest French version are you?

Nope - I'm on the other side! I design risk analysis systems that PREVENT that from happening!

pinebluffvariant Jan 28th 2008 2:56 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by welrifai (Post 5849033)
There you go - Now it's just a convertible... not a Boxster.

How about you buy my Golf? on I'm selling it due to my move to Dubai. I'm sure you can afford to ship it over. :)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

3.2 litre, 4wd, can do some boxter bashing with this one. Granted its not a covertible...

welrifai Jan 28th 2008 3:00 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by pinebluffvariant (Post 5849113)
How about you buy my Golf? on I'm selling it due to my move to Dubai. I'm sure you can afford to ship it over. :)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

3.2 litre, 4wd, can do some boxter bashing with this one. Granted its not a covertible...

You're gonna have to work on your sales pitch :-).

Mr Moleskins Jan 28th 2008 3:05 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by welrifai (Post 5849007)
I can't be splashing out on a Lambo or a Mas :-). I'm 26, and need to save £60,000 for my MBA in the next 18 months :-). Boxster is a bit fun (if a bit girly), without breaking the bank! What would you buy on £35,000?

Has to be a convert?

Border Reiver Jan 28th 2008 3:06 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 
In terms of money in the bank at the end of the month (net) you need to be getting (about) 40,000Dhs a month to be on the equivalent of £120,000. However, the cost of living here is a lot less than London (but rising fast)- especially anything to do with cars. Have a look at http://www.grapeshisa.com for a clue on costs.

Rent is paid in advance, either 6 or 12 months is normal depending on how well you negotiate. Have a look at Dubai Marina and JBR (Jumeirah Beach Residence) which are both near DIC/DMC. A one bedroom flat should cost you around 100,000Dhs to 120,000Dhs a year.

£40,000, or about 25,000Dhs a month isn't going to be enough.

Border Reiver Jan 28th 2008 3:08 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 
And by the way, welcome to the bored.;)

welrifai Jan 28th 2008 3:10 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by Mr Moleskins (Post 5849149)
Has to be a convert?

I'd prefer a convertible... is Dubai too hot for them in the summer? I like the SLKs, but a well equipped model is going to run £40k+. Why, what do you recommend for Dubai?

seven seas Jan 28th 2008 3:13 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 
Buy that Porsche and enjoy it.

Tall Poppy Syndrome is one of the things you'll be leaving behind.

pinebluffvariant Jan 28th 2008 3:16 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by welrifai (Post 5849137)
You're gonna have to work on your sales pitch :-).

How about this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEUS:IT&ih=004

Lucky for you it did not meet its reserve :)

shiva Jan 28th 2008 3:18 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by welrifai (Post 5849168)
what do you recommend for Dubai?

something with an ac that would stop global warming in its tracks.....even then it will barely work in summer.

whatever you do dont get a soft top convertable, you'll melt and when a landcruiser tries to drive over you you'll wish you'd bought the hardtop

Border Reiver Jan 28th 2008 3:18 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 
It is too hot to put the roof down for about 4 months of the year, depending on how brave you are. Something with a detachable (Porsche) or folding (SLK) hard top makes the summers a bit more bearable.

You will get an SLK 350 for a lot less than £40,000 here.

shiva Jan 28th 2008 3:20 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by seven seas (Post 5849177)
Buy that Porsche and enjoy it.

Tall Poppy Syndrome is one of the things you'll be leaving behind.

but a boxter hardly qualifies does it :rofl:

pinebluffvariant Jan 28th 2008 3:20 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by seven seas (Post 5849177)
Buy that Porsche and enjoy it.

Tall Poppy Syndrome is one of the things you'll be leaving behind.

Anything less than the 911 turbo is not worth touching! And the SLK is as equally girly as the boxter! Go for the SL55.

welrifai Jan 28th 2008 3:20 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by Border Reiver (Post 5849154)
In terms of money in the bank at the end of the month (net) you need to be getting (about) 40,000Dhs a month to be on the equivalent of £120,000. However, the cost of living here is a lot less than London (but rising fast)- especially anything to do with cars. Have a look at http://www.grapeshisa.com for a clue on costs.

Rent is paid in advance, either 6 or 12 months is normal depending on how well you negotiate. Have a look at Dubai Marina and JBR (Jumeirah Beach Residence) which are both near DIC/DMC. A one bedroom flat should cost you around 100,000Dhs to 120,000Dhs a year.

£40,000, or about 25,000Dhs a month isn't going to be enough.

I'm not expecting to match my UK income, which would be about 40k Dhs per month as you said (taking into account that I pay an enormous level of tax in the UK, and won't pay any in Dubai). Further, I'm actually not a UK national so I'm not concerned with saving enough money to return to London and buy a Knightsbridge flat (I'm a Lebanese national who's been living in the US and UK for the last 10 years). I will be receiving an expat package, as the company is relocating me from London to Dubai for what they estimate is 2-3 years.

I get the impression this lifestyle is going to require an income of 30,000 Dhs/month or about £50,000/yr. Does that sound about right? Maybe even a bit more...

shiva Jan 28th 2008 3:22 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 
Sl 55 second hand to give you an idea of price

http://motors.souq.com/item.php?id=2...sort_type=desc

welrifai Jan 28th 2008 3:27 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by welrifai (Post 5849200)
I'm not expecting to match my UK income, which would be about 40k Dhs per month as you said (taking into account that I pay an enormous level of tax in the UK, and won't pay any in Dubai). Further, I'm actually not a UK national so I'm not concerned with saving enough money to return to London and buy a Knightsbridge flat (I'm a Lebanese national who's been living in the US and UK for the last 10 years). I will be receiving an expat package, as the company is relocating me from London to Dubai for what they estimate is 2-3 years.

I get the impression this lifestyle is going to require an income of 30,000 Dhs/month or about £50,000/yr. Does that sound about right? Maybe even a bit more...

I had to look up "Tall Poppy Syndrome" on wikipedia! This is not about social status, this is about wanting to have a fun car before I'm married with kids :-) and have a wife that makes me trade it in for an SUV!!!

Our "websense" software in my office blocked that ebay auction - what was it for???

Border Reiver Jan 28th 2008 3:53 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by welrifai (Post 5849200)
I'm not expecting to match my UK income, which would be about 40k Dhs per month as you said (taking into account that I pay an enormous level of tax in the UK, and won't pay any in Dubai). Further, I'm actually not a UK national so I'm not concerned with saving enough money to return to London and buy a Knightsbridge flat (I'm a Lebanese national who's been living in the US and UK for the last 10 years). I will be receiving an expat package, as the company is relocating me from London to Dubai for what they estimate is 2-3 years.

I get the impression this lifestyle is going to require an income of 30,000 Dhs/month or about £50,000/yr. Does that sound about right? Maybe even a bit more...

40,000Dhs a month is 480,000 a year, which is about £65,000, which is about what you will be earning now after tax, if my maths is right. Actually you are probably earning a bit more but remember to factor in stuff like the congestion charge, council tax and all the other fun stuff. We have taxes in Dubai as well but you don't find out about them until after you arrive....

30,000 Dhs a month is probably the minimum you will need and 40,000 Dhs is nearer the mark, especially if you expect to save anything at all. Some entertainment here is very expensive (eg alcohol) and some is very cheap (eg Russian hookers). Depends how often you want to go out and where you want to go. And what (and who) you want to do when you get there.

nottmbantam Jan 28th 2008 4:19 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 
....I've seen lots of Toyota Camry's for sale on the notice boards.....

Seriously, from what I've heard, cars are a lot cheaper out there ( anything from 15% to 25% cheaper ) , so something that costs £35k out there, would be £40k+ here, so you may well then have a slightly bigger choice.

How much is a Bugatti Veyron out in Dubai?

pinebluffvariant Jan 28th 2008 4:24 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by welrifai (Post 5849222)
I had to look up "Tall Poppy Syndrome" on wikipedia! This is not about social status, this is about wanting to have a fun car before I'm married with kids :-) and have a wife that makes me trade it in for an SUV!!!

Our "websense" software in my office blocked that ebay auction - what was it for???

The auction was for my car - a proper sales pitch! Shame you are missing it.

welrifai Jan 28th 2008 4:43 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by pinebluffvariant (Post 5849396)
The auction was for my car - a proper sales pitch! Shame you are missing it.

Border,

You bring up a good point - I understand that I'll be hit with all kinds of hidden fees and taxes after arrival - any idea what they'll cost per year and what some of them are?

welrifai Jan 28th 2008 4:45 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by nottmbantam (Post 5849382)
....I've seen lots of Toyota Camry's for sale on the notice boards.....

Seriously, from what I've heard, cars are a lot cheaper out there ( anything from 15% to 25% cheaper ) , so something that costs £35k out there, would be £40k+ here, so you may well then have a slightly bigger choice.

How much is a Bugatti Veyron out in Dubai?

No problem at all, I'll be looking into those Bugatti Veyrons more closely, maybe if I can switch trades a bit and get into international arms dealing... human traffiking, or blood diamonds.

Mr Moleskins Jan 28th 2008 4:52 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 
I think being an international arms traders carries a lot of credibility, but most of that would be lost if you turned up for a trade in your boxster.

It would be like Keith Moon throwing an ipod out of his hotel window. Yes it does the job but it just isn't good enough.

nottmbantam Jan 28th 2008 4:55 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 
Get into all three plus drugs and prostitution, and you'll be in a Veyron before the month is out.....

None of this namby pamby risk analysis stuff.

I've got websense at work too, its really frustrating, all the eBay sites are filtered plus games and all the 'fun' stuff :-(

welrifai Jan 28th 2008 4:57 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by Mr Moleskins (Post 5849471)
I think being an international arms traders carries a lot of credibility, but most of that would be lost if you turned up for a trade in your boxster.

It would be like Keith Moon throwing an ipod out of his hotel window. Yes it does the job but it just isn't good enough.

Well, I'll have to find someone willing to provide a $1M loan against future arms trades so I can get that Bugati.

Given the tenor of today's international arms market, I think the risk would be high, and the lender would find it necessary to hedge with a considerable long position on my "client's" stock exchanges.

welrifai Jan 28th 2008 5:01 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by nottmbantam (Post 5849482)
Get into all three plus drugs and prostitution, and you'll be in a Veyron before the month is out.....

None of this namby pamby risk analysis stuff.

I've got websense at work too, its really frustrating, all the eBay sites are filtered plus games and all the 'fun' stuff :-(

Here's a couple of good sites for any bankers or banker haters out there - Websense doesn't catch 'em...

www.longorshortcapital.com
www.leveragedsellout.com (though the last few entries are no good)

Border Reiver Jan 28th 2008 5:07 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by welrifai (Post 5849440)
Border,

You bring up a good point - I understand that I'll be hit with all kinds of hidden fees and taxes after arrival - any idea what they'll cost per year and what some of them are?

Well, to kick off with there is an annual 5% municipality "fee" (that is tax to you and me) on your rent- added monthly to your utility bill. Then the letting agent will want 5% for the privilege of finding you your apartment- that is paid by the tenant not the landlord in Dubai. Then there is the prospect of paying (at least) six months rent up front. A 1,000Dhs (2,000Dhs for a villa) deposit to DEWA in case you don't pay your bills but at least that is refundable when you move out. And that is just the housing.

On the car front you have road tolls (cheap, but they do add up), speeding fines (there are so many cameras you can't avoid them all) etc etc.

There is a huge tax on alcohol (about 20% I think) as well as a 10% service charge and 10% "fee" on anything you do or buy in a hotel.

And that is just off the top of my head....

:eek:

welrifai Jan 28th 2008 5:11 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by Border Reiver (Post 5849530)
Well, to kick off with there is an annual 5% municipality "fee" (that is tax to you and me) on your rent- added monthly to your utility bill. Then the letting agent will want 5% for the privilege of finding you your apartment- that is paid by the tenant not the landlord in Dubai. Then there is the prospect of paying (at least) six months rent up front. A 1,000Dhs (2,000Dhs for a villa) deposit to DEWA in case you don't pay your bills but at least that is refundable when you move out. And that is just the housing.

On the car front you have road tolls (cheap, but they do add up), speeding fines (there are so many cameras you can't avoid them all) etc etc.

There is a huge tax on alcohol (about 20% I think) as well as a 10% service charge and 10% "fee" on anything you do or buy in a hotel.

And that is just off the top of my head....

:eek:

Border Reiver,

So what would you say is my monthly rent + utilities (including broadband & Sat TV) + municipality fee + agent fee total for a 1 bedroom near DIC? I'm thinking it's now around £1,500 that we're talking about? Jeez - this is actually looking MORE expensive than London!

Mr Moleskins Jan 28th 2008 5:13 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by welrifai (Post 5849486)
Well, I'll have to find someone willing to provide a $1M loan against future arms trades so I can get that Bugati.

Given the tenor of today's international arms market, I think the risk would be high, and the lender would find it necessary to hedge with a considerable long position on my "client's" stock exchanges.

:) Your relocation makes you a shorter bet than if you were trading from London!


Most of the roads are straight (well, they were the last time I was in Dubai a year ago - am relocating in a few months), so anything that can go round corners at speed is probably a waste of money. I'd go V8 straight line speed (I wonder if you can get the 7l Holden out there...?).

lionheart Jan 28th 2008 5:13 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by Border Reiver (Post 5849297)
Some entertainment here is very expensive (eg alcohol) and some is very cheap (eg Russian hookers). Depends how often you want to go out and where you want to go. And what (and who) you want to do when you get there.

Are you serious? I paid Dhs24 for a pint of guinness last night...my friend told me that the Russian hooker at the bar wanted Dhs1,500 for her services!

Eva Jan 28th 2008 5:48 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by welrifai (Post 5848745)
After having been in the UK for the last 14 months (and the US prior to that), it is likely that I'm moving to Dubai in March.

I'm trying to find out what income I would need to maintain my current standard of living. I am single 26 year old male and will be taking a regional management position for a Silicon Valley company.

Current situation in London, England
=====================================
Income: £120,000/year
Housing: 1 bedroom flat in Islington
Automobile: None
Savings: £20,000 (only 3 years out of Uni...)


Desired situation in Dubai
=====================================
Housing: 1 bedroom flat in Jumeirah Palms, or somewhere walking distance to the shore. Should have a pool and gym. Close to Dubai Internet City, where I'll be working.
Automobile: A nice new convertible!

Can you give me some idea what this type of lifestyle requires in terms of income? Is it true that rents are usually paid up front for the year? Are flats rented with/without furniture? Can you think of any "surprise" expenses I will incur that aren't typical in the UK or US?

Drop me an email at welrifai [at] gmail [dot] com.

I've seen numbers that suggest that I could enjoy this lifestyle on £40,000/yr... is that true? Should I expect my package to pay housing, auto, and health care?

Thanks!

Wael




How can we help you if you don't say what colour of Porche you want!!!!

Eva Jan 28th 2008 5:50 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by Madam Medusa (Post 5849015)
hahahaha...you just took the words right out of my mouth...

MM, xx


Porche' He took the word right out of his post-didn't ya welrifai?
After all my colour coding posting.

Border Reiver Jan 28th 2008 7:11 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by lionheart (Post 5849563)
Are you serious? I paid Dhs24 for a pint of guinness last night...my friend told me that the Russian hooker at the bar wanted Dhs1,500 for her services!

I must be out of touch with the going rate for Russian hookers but I suppose you could always negotiate. Which you couldn't do with the Guinness...

Border Reiver Jan 28th 2008 7:18 pm

Re: Expat package comparable to £120,000/yr
 

Originally Posted by welrifai (Post 5849550)
Border Reiver,

So what would you say is my monthly rent + utilities (including broadband & Sat TV) + municipality fee + agent fee total for a 1 bedroom near DIC? I'm thinking it's now around £1,500 that we're talking about? Jeez - this is actually looking MORE expensive than London!

Oh, I hate these question as so much of it "depends". Very roughly though:

Rent: 9,000Dhs/month
Municipality fee: 450Dhs/month
Agent fee (payable in full on signing the tenancy agreement): 5400Dhs
DEWA (water and electricity): 200Dhs/month (Air conditioning is usually included in the maintenance fee, which the landlord pays)
TV/internet: 400Dhs/month

So, just over 10,000Dhs a month, which is about £1,350.:ohmy:

Dubai is NOT a cheap place to live anymore.


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