Rapido

Don't ever live and work in Australia then. I used to dream about only a quarter or so of my salary going to the taxman. The reality in Oz is that when you add up all the taxes you actually pay, you are easily looking at 60%+.

And what do you get for it? More govt. departments, more public service jobs, more regulation, but most of all much less service (specifically a decrepit health system and grossly under-funded schools).

The whole of Australia is working and paying massive taxes to fund the wages and (compulsory) superannuation of a burgeoning, out-of-control public service perpetuated by whatever government (federal, state and local -yep, 3 levels) is in power.

Where do you get these 'Bye Bye London' car stickers? I wonder if they have 'Bye Bye Sydney' ones as well.

MrsHaps

60%+ does that include all of your taxes, your 'council tax', car tax health service tax, or just your tax from your wages...?

Rapido

That's all of it, MrsHaps, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's more: income tax, goods and services tax (10%) on everything, council rates, land tax, stamp duty (shitloads), capital gains tax.....it goes on and on.

Australia is a wonderful place in many ways but this ain't one of them. We were both on six-figure salaries and going backwards.

captainflack

Dubai's civil service is hardly a model of modernity and efficiency. Less than 1% of those employed in the private sector are locals - pretty much all of them are employed by the public sector (i.e. government bureaucracy) and they got 80% salary increases last year.

In the end, you have to look not just at taxes, but what your standard of living is and how much you can save. There are plenty of fees in 'zero tax' Dubai - salik congestion charging (that runs 24/7, even when the roads are empty), high visa charges, high electricity and water fees (to subsidize these services free to locals), ID cards, business licenses, etc. Not to mention huge rents and school fees that leave most expats with little chance to save.

I am still better off here at the moment, but if I was in my 20s and earning less, and struggling to pay the rent on a shared studio flat, I'd not bother staying.

The other thing to remember is that at least in Australia one can become a citizen, vote, publicly protest government policy and gain permanent residence - to be equal to the locals. In Dubai this is impossible, you will never have any rights. Therefore when you have a family and want to plan a longer term future, Dubai cannot offer this.

Like most I am here to make a bit of cash while I can but longer term will look for a better place to live permanently.

MrsHaps

that is why i was asking, because if you add up the taxes we pay on top of what we pay the taxman from our wages it would be very very high, not sure if the figure would be 60%+ but it is certainly higher than a quarter and that is not taking into consideration those who pay higher tax for earning a higher wage.

still.unsure

the one i like is the list of 'duties' in oz. as these are 'taxes' you can charge service tax on top

for instance, to register a car in victoria, you pay registration, 3rd party insurance, stamp duty and then 10% service tax on top! even though a 'tax on a tax' is unconstitutional, it's ok when you don't call it a tax but a 'duty'

oz = crap load of tax and dubious benefits...

IndieG

How did you get a figure of 60%?

Assuming you're a family of 4, 2 kids, husband and wife earning 75,000 each - say joint income of A$ 150,000

Tax on 75,000 is 16,500

So that's 33,000

Then Family tax benefit (base level 1,945) is around A$ 3,890

Then add medicare levy: A$ 1,125

So total income tax: A$ 30k- 20%

So in pocket: A$: 120,000

Are you saying that you would actually take home only $ 60,000? So I'd be paying $60,000 in "hidden" taxes? How?

council rates - this includes your water rates. But then entry to botanical gardens, parks, playgrounds are all free. There is a lot more to do for kids? In Dubai you are charged a maintenance fee on your property PLUS 5% by DEWA. This is only going to go up exponentially in the next couple of years. Water andElectricity charges are also going to go up when the Govt stops subsidising....

land tax, stamp duty (shitloads) - this is one-off.... not a recurring expense.
Lower here agree...

capital gains tax.....guess it's CG loss now....

Education is free - and not all schools are as bad as you think. There are some very good state schools (albeit the rent/prices tend to be much higher in such areas)

mantronic

This is probably not far off if you earn over 100k and spend big (10% GST). Its partly why I considered Dubai at first ... only to discover rent on a house with a quarter acre nd pool Id live in in Syd would cost more than 60%%

I wont debate the value point (it can be subjective and long winded) but I disagree entirely. In fact seeing Dubais lack of infrastructure and Govt drove home to me the value we get from tax.

2 point though. Aus govt is massively understaffed and overworked. And if you got sick and got a 50k procedure from a top doc for free you would see some of the depth of your tax dollars at work.

And to put it in context, whilst everyone will suffer in this downturn, Aus hasnt even had its first quarter of contraction while the rest of the world is deep in recession.

manwithnoname

after being here for 1 yr and coming for lifestyle reasons only from australia, l can't believe for one moment that a couple both on 6-figure salaries can go backwards.
not to be blunt but 'what the f**k are you spending you're money on'?:curse:

Rapido

I can handle blunt.

Mortgage, Full-time childcare (x 2), Tax, Tax, Duty, Tax, Duty, Car + associated expenses....there's lots mate. Even the banks get away with stuff that the Europeans would never, ever tolerate. And the Aussies just cop it.

We didn't live a profligate lifestyle (you can't with two little ones) - only rarely did we go to gigs/dinners out etc - but it's just how it was.

I lived in Oz for 28yrs and love Sydney and NSW, but I am serious when I say we just couldn't get ahead and ultimately couldn't wait to get out. I don't crave wealth and possessions, and am certainly not a dreaded 'aspirational voter', but I did object increasingly to how difficult life was becoming and how much intereference the public service (lol) was having in my life.

I defy any Aussies on this forum to say that they didn't cheat just a wee bit on their tax returns.

We didn't move here for money - that's not what drives us - more for the need of change, the broadening of our kids' horizons, closer in a geographic sense to....everything (and certainly my family in Scotland) and other factors. In saying that I won't deny that the financial side was definitely consideration. I'm still unemployed here but even on my wife's salary alone, compared to Sydney we're ahead. Fact.

IndieG - figure of 60% was an independent survey we read a while back - widely disseminated but I can't quote it so sure, repudiate if you wish. I still say that's conservative, and while I stand to be corrected I'd say that tax on 75K would be way more than 16.5K in Australia. Tax on 100K+ is another bracket altogether.

mantronic - Aust govt understaffed and overworked? I'd only apply that to the people at the coalface, the ones actually doing the work (I have been one of them in the past). How do you explain the huge percentage of the workforce in NSW (prob. across Australia) that comprise the public sector?

And if you want a 50K procedure for free, you sure as hell pay for that privelege in your premiums every month. I chose not to - no way could we afford that monthly payment.

captainflack - good points mate, all taken.

still.unsure

i agree whole-heartedly with what you've said, rapido, though i don't think i was quite in the same expense list (married but no kids, was the only person in the house bringing in a 6 figure salary, but yes, cheated on the tax return!)

number crunching aside, oz is a lifestyle choice; one that's based around oz being the center of the universe, the only place to be and everywhere else is a helluva long way away. for some, that works, for others, (including me) that doesn't.

(btw, was struggling to think of another group of expats that i've seen in london that not-so-uncommonly tattoos their body with a national symbol. the number of aussies that i saw on the tube that had the southern cross tattooed on them was, well, bloody scarey! male, female, you name it. not even the yanks do that!)

mantronic

This is a huge craze since the Cronulla riots. Its not pretty. We had a small riot in a hpusing comission area a week back and there were young kids with these tats. Its racist. Its probably one of the whitest places in the world still and propel want whites to dominate!!!???

And yes Aus is a lifestyle with limited travel opportunities but nobody thinks its the centre of the business world. People that want that go to London and NY. But having said that aus is developing some critical mass.

IndieG

Rapido – not repudiating at all, am honestly trying to arrive at the 60% effective tax rate. Tax will be the single most important factor that will affect some of our decisions in Australia (not about going to Aus – that is a definite). Anyway, we will have to hire a consultant nearer the time.



I don’t plan to work (how nice is that?!) and we’re not banking on hubby getting a top paying job (if at all) either…



I estimated the tax liability for 2008 (assuming fixed income of 75k each – income split to minimize tax) from the ATO website – took into account tax slabs; Medicare levy and base rates for FTA.

still.unsure

i admire your optimism, but i'm struggling with your enthusiasm that aus is developing some sort of level of critical mass in the business world. aus's global business contribution is natural resources, and that's it. if you can't grow it or dig it out of the ground, aus is not the place to develop a business. (with one exception; higher education in english that doesn't have quite the expense of britain or the US) sure, aussies are very popular in the services industries elsewhere in the world (financial, legal, etc.) but that's when they are somewhere else and looked at in comparison to the locals. (gonna get canned for this but... an aussie lawyer in london will do very well up until a point b/c a. no class/school legacies and b. aussies seem to have a much more tenancious work hard/play hard attitude when comparing to the locals) i can't see that many service industries in the business world deciding on aus being the best place to setup for a whole swag of reasons including; isolation, expense due to taxes and wages, timezone, closer/more tested rivals such as singapore and hong kong. there is (or was) a growing service sector around the core business of natural resources, (banking, infrastructure projects, all the legal gubbins to support it) but that was due to a huge increase in demand for coal, steel, alumunium (you name it) driven by china trying to satisfy consumer demand. as that's starting to decrease (rapidly) now, the knock on effect is going to be significant. (whether to the same extent as elsewhere is a different argument). what's more, the governments stimulus package to industry (a couple of bucks for green cars and some murmured tax cuts) will have dubious effect due to such a small consumer base. remember, there's only 20+ million people.

(anyway, on that cheery note, best of luck in that far far away island, hope you brought your ruby red slippers!)

IndieG

So when one has to move out of Dubai and you don't want to return to Aus (if that is where you are from), what other options do you have (assuming you have no other job offer)?