RMred

Hi All,

First post in here and haven't really had time to dig through the forums to find a specific answer to my question but will ask here for ease...

To give you some history to my query I'll explain my situation:

I'm an ex Royal Navy aircraft engineer now working in the Construction Industry, switched careers in June '16. I've worked both principle contractor and consultancy side as assistant project manager/package manager for a global tier 1 contractor (who unfortunately are not in the UAE), now looking for a move to Dubai to start a new life with my wife.

It's fair to say that the company I work for took a chance on me as they saw potential during a spell of work experience I undertook. That chance (I feel, and others will agree) has paid off and I quickly moved up the ladder and was given more and more responsibility and delivered!

I put out a speculative application to another global construction consultancy and have been rejected on VISA grounds (the excuse a recruiter gave me).

Transcript of my conversation below:

Me: "Please find attached my CV.

I look forward to hearing from you."

Recruiter: "Thank you for your CV. Unfortunately without a degree we will not be able to consider your application further as we are unable to obtain the appropriate residency / work visa for you."

Me: "Is this a UAE wide policy?

This exact response is the reason for my frustration, I have a lot to offer, but the blinkered view that seems to be industry wide in the UAE is stopping people like myself (who have a lot to offer) from securing work. UK based companies can see the bigger picture. I thought, given that *company* also operate in the UK that they may see past the degree necessity.

If I was to apply for a lower skilled role, how would I then obtain a VISA? Surely a degree is not a mandatory requirement for all job roles in the UAE?

Apologies for the questions, I suspect you can sense my frustrations. I would welcome your feedback/advice."

Recruiter: "It is a mandatory requirement under UAE Labour Law, not an *company* specific policy. For anyone be hired into a managerial, skilled position an attested degree or equivalent is required. For unskilled labour, more junior level positions it is not a requirement."

Me: "Thanks for getting back to me promptly.

You mentioned "attested degree or equivalent", what's the equivalent? "

Recruiter: "For example NEBOSH is a H&S qualification which is classed as equivalent to a bachelor’s degree.

Charterships or Diplomas are not classed as equivalent qualifications. Qualifications, including degrees, completed by distance learning are also no longer acceptable."

Me: "It looks like I won't be able to make the move then, really upsetting and actually seems like a really narrow minded approach (not your fault obviously).

I'll have to consider my options.

Thanks for your advice."


Surely I'm not the first person to move out to the UAE with no degree and work in a managerial position???

Appreciate this is a long one, if you've got this far then thanks for reading, I would appreciate any advice you have to offer.

UKMS

I don’t really know a great deal about your field of work so can’t comment specifically. But being blunt my observation would be that as well as lacking a degree you lack experience and that’s probably why they are not interested.

There are specialist roles for people without degrees but you will usually find the degree is substituted with many many years of specialist experience as well as professional qualifications. I don’t have a degree but have more years experience than I want to admit in my role.

co durham boy

The contractors side is your best bet here . I do not have a degree , only various trade technical qualifications in relation to my industry but have over 30 years experience in that field and over 20 of those overseas.

It's industry specific as well , some fields will require it and some won't. The recruiter specialists on here will give you a proper run down on your chances.

Over to you Scamp

scrubbedexpat141

I'll do what the recruiter was worried about doing.

Degree is irrelevant for some organisations. Definitely not a national / legal requirement (apart from in some obvious fields like doctors etc etc).

One of the challenges you'll have is that many companies / recruiters will look at a long period in the armed forces as exactly that - armed forces. Not the logistics / PM / HSE etc type experience that it contains.

It can be very difficult to find a company who want to look beyond the Xyrs in forces and limited civilian experience. That's probably not the recruiter's fault, but the organisation being narrow minded or dismissive.

It's going to be easier for the recruiter to make something up than tell you that someone they work with probably thinks your forces experience is irrelevant.

Sorry to be blunt about it, I'm of the opposite opinion as my Sister is an example of military training being extremely well valued in civilian organisations. If you get someone from the right part of the armed forces with the right sort of experience and attitude, you've got potential to hire a great individual.

Taking the military part to one side a lack of degree means consultants are unlikely to hire given the requirements to go through client approval. Degree is a tick box here for so many big clients. As CDB has suggested, the contractor route is going to offer more opportunities and definitely through networking. Forces folk have friends everywhere so definitely tap into your network to see who knows who and try to find an entry that way.

Miss Ann Thrope

A degree is a big deal here in the UAE (and GCC) not just for ex-pats. Locals working in government jobs are paid according to their qualification level and have a ceiling on promotion based on educational attainment. It's simply part of how things work and is certainly not even close to being among the more illogical and frustrating rules that apply here.

For ex-pats, even if your hiring company management is open to lack of degree, their sponsor (local partner) may not be. And it is the sponsor (as the name implies) who actually sponsors your visa and is responsible for your presence in the UAE. For this reason a Freezone visa could be a way around it (as we had to do previously when appointing a non-graduate to a senior role) - but your prospective employer would have to have a Freezone operation and be willing to grant you that option. As others have pointed put, two years post-military experience is not a significant track record of anything. Most jobs here can be done by people from various Asian or African countries - often very capable and highly qualified despite what the bitter expat stereotype may suggest -for a much smaller salary expectation than Europeans will have.

Essentially without a degree and with a fairly short track record you are asking an organisation to take a chance on your personal attributes. Considerable though they may be, when they don't know you that is a big ask. It's certainly not impossible that you might find somebody willing to do that but the lack of degree makes it many times more difficult. My suggestion would be to continue to build a substantial track record in that organization that has shown faith in you so that in the future you have something more tangible and specific to show to prospective employers.

The UK is actually exceptional in the world in having less regard for degrees than elsewhere, and even that is changing. In the US, in most of Europe and certainly in any "ex-pat" location, almost any managerial job will have a basic requirement for a degree. You might want to consider investing in the effort to get one if you want to broaden the opportunities to advance your career.

UKCityGent

Many of my ex-military friends found themselves in a similar situations - especially the older ones. It may be worth going thru the security/risk management companies that operate in the region.

Pongo

Do you have any experience of course design and SAT?

RMred

Hi Pongo,

Unfortunately not, I was a Leading Hand RN (Corporal in Army speak), Aircraft Engineer.

All,

The advice you've given has been really informative and thanks for taking the time to post.

I fully understand the naivety or narrow minded attitude shown in the UAE and don't expect this to be easy, I'm knocking on every door possible to get ahead.

I have completed a lot of further education since leaving, CSCS/SMSTS/PRINCE2/APM PMQ, the next step looks like a degree, which inevitably will take some time.

In the meantime I will look into the Freezone VISA and suggest this to a few of the companies who have declined my applications.

Keep the advice coming! this is all really helpful.

mission

you will only be able to get a freezone visa if the company has an office/operations within the freezone.

Bahtatboy

I worked in an international engineering / manufacturing co in UAE (partly a forward-sales office for engineering products made outside UAE, but also with a workshop for repairs / upgrades), and most of my senior British "engineering" colleagues didn't have degrees. There were never any problems, although our UAE sponsor had a fair degree of wasta, but I don't know if or to what extent that helped. That's going back 5 years or so, don't know if the situation has tightened since then.

scrubbedexpat141

See if any of the quals give you credit towards a degree, might be able to get one done quicker if needs be.

I wouldn't bother too much with companies that have rejected you so far, they've done it for one reason or another and unless it's because they have no positions it's unlikely to change.

slammer

The problem will be that after you get your degree they will want at least two to five years experience before you will be considered. IMHO

weasel decentral

Not to be negative about this but I don't think I would hire someone into a construction project management role with 18 months experience. Degree or no degree it wouldn't be a runner for me, speaking as someone in the construction industry- contractor side.

I'm not doubting your people management skills, but you must have a huge deficit in your technical and procedural knowledge of construction? What type of projects were you doing in the UK?

RMred

So you've touched on something that a lot of the senior management at the company I work in (who or may not have started building a UK headquarters for a search engine provider) first raised when our operations director asked to hire me.

I was brought into the industry through a scheme called Buildforce, it aims to bring ex-military into the industry to plug the skills gap, but I wanted to go down the managerial route. I had to prove myself early on, which was tough and many of the consultants and Sub-contractor PM's doubted me. I worked hard and forged a good relationship with them and the Client, I was humble and honest in admitting that I'm lacking the Construction Industry experience, but I knew where to find the information I needed and knew how to find the people to plug the gaps.

I'm an engineer, who is quick to learn, I've worked in the construction industry previously in concreting and roofing, so I had little bit of a head start. But as an engineer I understand ME, I understand Structural engineering (a lot of the principles translate into Airframes for example), so I was able to prove myself early on.

My PD handed me a lot of "development opportunities" which turned into me being the lead on the project for BREEAM, Building Control Compliance, Behavioural Safety training and O+M's.

I've worked on Office and Commercial refurbs, last year completed a project in West London to handover 3 former BBC buildings to a major developer over here. I'm now consultancy side redeveloping the Royal College of Surgeons, I've had a steep learning curve.

I fully appreciate that most if not close to all Consultancies wouldn't touch me with a barge pole! Some principal contractors may, so that's who i'll target.

It just takes one to take a chance on me, like my current company did (albeit from ome fierce resistance from the PD, who incidentally ate humble pie and admitted so in my end of year report).

scrubbedexpat141

Good on you but just keep that last point in your mind. For every success story like you there's a dozen who will not be successful. Also remember the ME region likes proven entities and to know, so try to find opportunities through your network, where people will vouch for you.