Originally Posted by Alexa (Post 9385384)

I have. In fact, I have read Qur'aan many times. And I think if one applies common sense to it all, and implements selectively, it can be a good thing.
Of course, all that goes totally against all what the "enlightened ones" (scholars) preach.

Which is the case with Christianity and Judaism as well. I would even go as far to say that every religion does more harm than good if followed by the written word.
Too many people interpret as it suits them.

Originally Posted by John7 (Post 9384161)

Again you are deviating from the main subject, but if you want to open a debate on these issues is fine:

1. Isn't Christians and Churchs destroyed Europe in the name of Christ and Church during the dark ages
2. Isn't Christians whom they are the one supported Mojahideen in Afghanistan ( weapons & training) including Osama Bin Laden against Russia
3. Isn't the Christian allies whom they invaded Afghanistan after Russia and until date the killing is not stopped
4. Isn't the Christians armies are invading countries in Asia, Africa & Middle East with daily killings
5. Isn't a Christian army through the Atomic bomb over Japan
6. Isn't The Christians whom they are supporting the Zionist Regime ( Israel) occupying the Palestinian Land
A lot of references of current and history can be given, but can we give an excuse to others to show that Jesus teached these Christians to do such things !!!!, and Jesus is a terrorist, no way of course.

So pls. when you write such comments be fair, and don't spread your poisons

Your comments of "When Muslim armies marched into Byzantine Jerusalem and built a couple of mosques over the ruins of the holiest site in Judaism what exactly where they defending themselves against?" is totally wrong, Firstly: When Muslims entered Jerusalim They entered peacefully and the keys of Jerusalim submitted wellingly to by the priests to muslims, Secondly: The current Mosques sites in Jerualim is not built on the holiest site in Judaism, simply because that Israel ( the Zionists) failed to prove that this is the location since more than 60 years !!!, despite all the extensive researches and demolitions on daily basis done from their side

Originally Posted by Alexa (Post 9385384)

I have. In fact, I have read Qur'aan many times. And I think if one applies common sense to it all, and implements selectively, it can be a good thing.
Of course, all that goes totally against all what the "enlightened ones" (scholars) preach.

Originally Posted by Alexa (Post 9385384)

Which is the case with Christianity and Judaism as well. I would even go as far to say that every religion does more harm than good if followed by the written word.

Originally Posted by Alexa (Post 9385384)

Too many people interpret as it suits them.

Originally Posted by John7 (Post 9386244)

It never happened, when I have replied earlier on other threads to show that when we critisize others / insult them, based on religions, race or colour, the other parties may reply back in the same form. Any discussion in any subject should be done in a professional manner. Why do we need to critisize others just for the sake to prove that we are right only !

Originally Posted by Norm_uk (Post 9386818)

What's the point in that?

These books, especially the Koran, are VERY clear that you cannot pick and choose, that you must accept by faith and you cannot change anything because it's the eternal word of god.

Picking and choosing what's in the Koran is like picking the few sensible verses in Mein Kampf...why just do away with it and pick up something by Confucious, Gandhi, or perhaps Jefferson's Bible?

If you were a member of a political party that had as many crimes against humanity committed in it's name as most religions have, wouldn't the moral response be to leave that party completely and condemn it? Why persist in membership and support of any kind (even just "making tea for the Fuhrer" as it were) if you know it's rotten and evil? (well I know why...this "party" proscribes death for those who leave it).



Judaism, Christianity and Islam are based upon the written word. Not following it makes it pointless to be a part of really.

Also, the more fundamentalist a Jain becomes the more safe the world is...the more like Jesus a Christian becomes the more safe the world is. The most Orthodox of Jews are often pacifists - in Israel they are exempt from military service for example...

The more like Muhammad a Muslim is...well, do I need to list why that would be a major problem in the 21st Century?



You've just said that it's possible to pick and choose nice stuff then condemned people who interpret scripture as it suits them :confused:

Who gets to say what the "correct" interpretation is? Surely a good system will be easy to understand by most people and not open to gross abuse?

Sure it's better to do away with anything that contradicts what we know to be moral in the 21st Century - slavery, child abuse, the inequality of women, infant genital mutilation, intolerance of people solely based on them subscribing to a different faith or no faith, a lack of rule of law, historical revisionism etc etc.?

N

Originally Posted by Paracletus (Post 9386912)

Just wondering Norm, do you apply Godwin's law to all your debates/arguements?

Originally Posted by Paracletus (Post 9386912)

Just wondering Norm, do you apply Godwin's law to all your debates/arguements?

Originally Posted by Millhouse (Post 9387436)

Not all of them Paracletus... I think if you use the search function correctly, and carefully, you can find a thread somewhere in May 2009 where Godwin's law doesn't apply.

Originally Posted by Norm_uk (Post 9386753)

Your response to my post (which is factual and I challenge you to disprove it) is to bring up US foreign policy as "Christian".

Let me enlighten you with a quote from the Americans themselves....
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." - Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli - which was in response to unprovoked attacks on US shipping by Muslims resulting in the US building a Navy and handing their arses to them on a plate.

Or you could go straight to their Constitution, the cornerstone of their entire political structure:
"Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances" 1st Amendment.

Nothing you mentioned has been done in the name of Christianity or because Christianity calls for it. The same cannot be said of Muslim aggression over the last 1400 years.

Feel free to actually respond to my points rather than bring up perceived wrongs in other countries which is so typical in your culture of blame and denial. No one is perfect for sure but we at least admit when we are wrong...and we don't demand respect without earning it.

N.

Originally Posted by John7 (Post 9393268)

It seems to be that you didn't get the clear message of my comment, which is if we generalize acts of Muslims ( as persons) and we start insulting Islam as a religion, others can do the same to us, in which any act of countries suxh as US. UK..etc which are in principle a " Christian" nations, all the acts resulted from these nations can be diverted to Christians " in general" as they belong to these nations.

Originally Posted by John7 (Post 9393268)

To clarify it more if any act done by a certain person, we shouldn't critise the whole nation / religion that he belongs to.......

Originally Posted by Millhouse (Post 9387436)

Not all of them Paracletus... I think if you use the search function correctly, and carefully, you can find a thread somewhere in May 2009 where Godwin's law doesn't apply.