Divorce for Fathers
Apr 18th 2018, 7:54 am
#16
peterparker
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 196
Re: Divorce for Fathers
Is it you that really want a divorce? You could agree to stay married if neither of you wishes to remarry. You can come to an arrangement with her - if you're in a villa - she gets two rooms and one entrance - you get 2 rooms and your entrance or you rent 2 flats in same building and only see each other regarding kids. Some people do that. They have separate lives but get along because of the kids and finances. They are then not fighting all the time.
Apr 18th 2018, 7:32 pm
#17
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 278
Re: Divorce for Fathers
Choice of jurisdiction is really key because there can be a huge difference in outcomes from divorce in different countries, so it's worth taking quality advice before you tip your hand to your wife to find out (i) do you potentially have a choice of jurisdiction and if so (ii) which jurisdiction is likely to be advantageous and (iii) what are the likely range of potential outcomes.
If there is a choice, the first mover (in terms of where the initial papers are filed) may get a big advantage because then the other party has to decide whether to accept or contest the choice.
Obviously the UK is seen as one of the most "woman friendly" jurisdictions for divorce because of the rules on splitting assets and child custody. Not sure how the UAE ranks by comparison.
However if you think you can come to a fair and amicable agreement then another equally valid option is before moving to the nuclear option of filing papers just to discuss up front and try to reach agreement on friendly terms and then get an agreement drawn up reflecting that.
Fully agree that happiness of the children is the most important thing! And good luck :-)
If there is a choice, the first mover (in terms of where the initial papers are filed) may get a big advantage because then the other party has to decide whether to accept or contest the choice.
Obviously the UK is seen as one of the most "woman friendly" jurisdictions for divorce because of the rules on splitting assets and child custody. Not sure how the UAE ranks by comparison.
However if you think you can come to a fair and amicable agreement then another equally valid option is before moving to the nuclear option of filing papers just to discuss up front and try to reach agreement on friendly terms and then get an agreement drawn up reflecting that.
Fully agree that happiness of the children is the most important thing! And good luck :-)
Apr 19th 2018, 6:47 am
#18
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 10,005
Re: Divorce for Fathers
Oh dear.. I went through the same situation 3 years ago and the circumstances sound almost identical in terms of the percentage of childcare you are responsible for.
My situation ended very badly, as most of them do, with her abducting my children to France whilst I was away on a business trip.
3 years of the worst hell imaginable, lawyers in 3 countries and several court cases and judgements later, I have all of the school holidays allocated to me, but no involvement in their day to day lives.... Truly devastating.
The only people who benifit are the scumbag “family lawyers” quick to feign compassion, but logging every second of communication.
Simply, my advice to you is, if there is any hope of resolving your situation try to do it, the alternative is unimaginable and rarely ends well for both the parents or children.
My situation ended very badly, as most of them do, with her abducting my children to France whilst I was away on a business trip.
3 years of the worst hell imaginable, lawyers in 3 countries and several court cases and judgements later, I have all of the school holidays allocated to me, but no involvement in their day to day lives.... Truly devastating.
The only people who benifit are the scumbag “family lawyers” quick to feign compassion, but logging every second of communication.
Simply, my advice to you is, if there is any hope of resolving your situation try to do it, the alternative is unimaginable and rarely ends well for both the parents or children.
The OP post though about choice of jurisdiction, is the UK even an option if recent residence abroad ?
Apr 19th 2018, 5:51 pm
#20
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 10,005
Re: Divorce for Fathers
I think the jurisdiction issue a good place to start to consider whether divorce in the UK, especially if children involved, even an option if you are resident abroad.
Apr 19th 2018, 6:19 pm
#21
BE Enthusiast
Joined: May 2012
Location: Nebraska by the Sea
Posts: 987
Re: Divorce for Fathers
An alternative viewpoint. If you choose to talk with your wife beware that likely the first thing she will do, or her friends etc will advise her to do, is contact a lawyer. And then all bets are off. Don't believe me the media is littered with cases where people approached this subject reasonably as if the person they were divorcing is still a friend.
Lawyers are vultures they will see your assets and high income ( your statement) as something to be 'mined.' for their own benefit. None of them (well the liars) are in it for altruistic reasons. At worst the more unscrupulous ones will advise your current friendly wife that she should make the first strike and all of sudden you will find yourself in court on spurious charges/ possibly even criminal charges trying to divorce something you thought was a friend. Again do not believe me think Johnny Depp, Mel Gibson the list is endless. It is seen as a tactic by these unscrupulous lawyers to put you on the back foot and gain an advantage in the courtroom. Because what Judge is going to feel sorry for you when facing such allegations...
Lawyers are vultures they will see your assets and high income ( your statement) as something to be 'mined.' for their own benefit. None of them (well the liars) are in it for altruistic reasons. At worst the more unscrupulous ones will advise your current friendly wife that she should make the first strike and all of sudden you will find yourself in court on spurious charges/ possibly even criminal charges trying to divorce something you thought was a friend. Again do not believe me think Johnny Depp, Mel Gibson the list is endless. It is seen as a tactic by these unscrupulous lawyers to put you on the back foot and gain an advantage in the courtroom. Because what Judge is going to feel sorry for you when facing such allegations...
Apr 19th 2018, 7:13 pm
#22
Concierge
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 21,138
Re: Divorce for Fathers
An alternative viewpoint. If you choose to talk with your wife beware that likely the first thing she will do, or her friends etc will advise her to do, is contact a lawyer. And then all bets are off. Don't believe me the media is littered with cases where people approached this subject reasonably as if the person they were divorcing is still a friend.
Lawyers are vultures they will see your assets and high income ( your statement) as something to be 'mined.' for their own benefit. None of them (well the liars) are in it for altruistic reasons. At worst the more unscrupulous ones will advise your current friendly wife that she should make the first strike and all of sudden you will find yourself in court on spurious charges/ possibly even criminal charges trying to divorce something you thought was a friend. Again do not believe me think Johnny Depp, Mel Gibson the list is endless. It is seen as a tactic by these unscrupulous lawyers to put you on the back foot and gain an advantage in the courtroom. Because what Judge is going to feel sorry for you when facing such allegations...
Lawyers are vultures they will see your assets and high income ( your statement) as something to be 'mined.' for their own benefit. None of them (well the liars) are in it for altruistic reasons. At worst the more unscrupulous ones will advise your current friendly wife that she should make the first strike and all of sudden you will find yourself in court on spurious charges/ possibly even criminal charges trying to divorce something you thought was a friend. Again do not believe me think Johnny Depp, Mel Gibson the list is endless. It is seen as a tactic by these unscrupulous lawyers to put you on the back foot and gain an advantage in the courtroom. Because what Judge is going to feel sorry for you when facing such allegations...
Apr 20th 2018, 1:07 am
#23
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,900
Re: Divorce for Fathers
You mentioned "guardianship" and "custody" - do you understand the difference, that is not just legal fluff fluff, there is a very distinct difference in Arab legal code in those terms and depending on what Arab country you are in, "guardianship" (financial responsibility and some major decision-making) goes to the father but "custody" (actual physical care) goes to the mother up to a certain age. Even if the mother is unfit, "custody" does not revert to the father, it goes to another female relative on the mother's side of the family.
Additionally in some Arab jurisdictions, custody rights automatically go to the mother up to a certain age for both boys and girls. That is also based on an interpretation of Islamic legal code - the age is different for the boys and girls, it's not 18 but can be anywhere between 7 and 16, though can extend, especially for girls.
It does get implemented differently across the Arab World, I don't know the fine degrees of difference between how the UAE implements this versus Egypt, Tunisia etc. But that the kids are younger, makes me believe it will be more unfavourable for you.
For your sake - don't throw the dice on a Dubai divorce, thinking that this gives you some kind of legal advantage based on a false Western stereotype of the Middle East that men hold all the cards. If you want to proceed in Dubai you need to consult veteran legal representation with significant expertise in these cases, to make sure you understand how this is likely to play out there and that you are aware of all possible outcomes.
You haven't mentioned how amicable your relationship is with your spouse, I concur with the others that this is your first point-of-call, and if that fails, seriously, seriously re-assess if the UAE is the best jurisdiction for you to move forwards with this in.
Good luck.
Last edited by carcajou; Apr 20th 2018 at 1:11 am.
Apr 20th 2018, 5:51 am
#24
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 10,005
Re: Divorce for Fathers
There are enough stories not from the press to support the potential for exactly what was described, sadly. It is a challenging situation, and sadly some parents put their financial interest ahead of what is best for the children.
Apr 20th 2018, 7:23 am
#25
peterparker
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 196
Re: Divorce for Fathers
No . . . no, no, no, no, no. That is a Western stereotype.
You mentioned "guardianship" and "custody" - do you understand the difference, that is not just legal fluff fluff, there is a very distinct difference in Arab legal code in those terms and depending on what Arab country you are in, "guardianship" (financial responsibility and some major decision-making) goes to the father but "custody" (actual physical care) goes to the mother up to a certain age. Even if the mother is unfit, "custody" does not revert to the father, it goes to another female relative on the mother's side of the family.
Additionally in some Arab jurisdictions, custody rights automatically go to the mother up to a certain age for both boys and girls. That is also based on an interpretation of Islamic legal code - the age is different for the boys and girls, it's not 18 but can be anywhere between 7 and 16, though can extend, especially for girls.
It does get implemented differently across the Arab World, I don't know the fine degrees of difference between how the UAE implements this versus Egypt, Tunisia etc. But that the kids are younger, makes me believe it will be more unfavourable for you.
For your sake - don't throw the dice on a Dubai divorce, thinking that this gives you some kind of legal advantage based on a false Western stereotype of the Middle East that men hold all the cards. If you want to proceed in Dubai you need to consult veteran legal representation with significant expertise in these cases, to make sure you understand how this is likely to play out there and that you are aware of all possible outcomes.
You haven't mentioned how amicable your relationship is with your spouse, I concur with the others that this is your first point-of-call, and if that fails, seriously, seriously re-assess if the UAE is the best jurisdiction for you to move forwards with this in.
Good luck.
You mentioned "guardianship" and "custody" - do you understand the difference, that is not just legal fluff fluff, there is a very distinct difference in Arab legal code in those terms and depending on what Arab country you are in, "guardianship" (financial responsibility and some major decision-making) goes to the father but "custody" (actual physical care) goes to the mother up to a certain age. Even if the mother is unfit, "custody" does not revert to the father, it goes to another female relative on the mother's side of the family.
Additionally in some Arab jurisdictions, custody rights automatically go to the mother up to a certain age for both boys and girls. That is also based on an interpretation of Islamic legal code - the age is different for the boys and girls, it's not 18 but can be anywhere between 7 and 16, though can extend, especially for girls.
It does get implemented differently across the Arab World, I don't know the fine degrees of difference between how the UAE implements this versus Egypt, Tunisia etc. But that the kids are younger, makes me believe it will be more unfavourable for you.
For your sake - don't throw the dice on a Dubai divorce, thinking that this gives you some kind of legal advantage based on a false Western stereotype of the Middle East that men hold all the cards. If you want to proceed in Dubai you need to consult veteran legal representation with significant expertise in these cases, to make sure you understand how this is likely to play out there and that you are aware of all possible outcomes.
You haven't mentioned how amicable your relationship is with your spouse, I concur with the others that this is your first point-of-call, and if that fails, seriously, seriously re-assess if the UAE is the best jurisdiction for you to move forwards with this in.
Good luck.
Apr 20th 2018, 7:37 am
#26
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,900
Re: Divorce for Fathers
So I think OP, at minimum, needs to consult very seasoned representation in Dubai, or try to have the divorce settled in a UK jurisdiction.
Apr 23rd 2018, 3:45 am
#27
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Abu Dhabi by body and Sydney by soul
Posts: 1,841
Re: Divorce for Fathers
Just as an aside. In UK the starting point for custody is 50/50.
Of three recent friend's divorces:
One at 50/50 despite his documented abuse and his ex wife has a restraining order preventing him from 100m from her property. But still 50/50.
One 75/25 due to his travel. Amicable and works.
One 80/20 And he never pays the child maintenance on time, reschedules at last minute and is a disaster.
One important thing to note is the NRP (non resident parent) is supposed to pay child maintenance as if they are not sharing care 50/50 then they need to pay.
Spousal support (different) is losing favour in the UK.
Of three recent friend's divorces:
One at 50/50 despite his documented abuse and his ex wife has a restraining order preventing him from 100m from her property. But still 50/50.
One 75/25 due to his travel. Amicable and works.
One 80/20 And he never pays the child maintenance on time, reschedules at last minute and is a disaster.
One important thing to note is the NRP (non resident parent) is supposed to pay child maintenance as if they are not sharing care 50/50 then they need to pay.
Spousal support (different) is losing favour in the UK.
Apr 23rd 2018, 8:33 am
#28
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 254
Re: Divorce for Fathers
Sorry you went through that situation and the type of parent who removes children from the other parent isn't thinking of the children first. The day to day contact with children is so important, and is available for all to brief amount of time as children fast these days. Too many parents don't put children first , just their own emotions- once you have children their lives should come first, not your own happiness, life isn't perfect.
The OP post though about choice of jurisdiction, is the UK even an option if recent residence abroad ?
The OP post though about choice of jurisdiction, is the UK even an option if recent residence abroad ?
Our situation was that we were married in the UK and she chose to initiate financial proceedings there hoping to get a bigger pay out. The custody proceedings were carried out in France, as the children were there.
Apr 23rd 2018, 8:34 am
#29
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 254
Re: Divorce for Fathers
An alternative viewpoint. If you choose to talk with your wife beware that likely the first thing she will do, or her friends etc will advise her to do, is contact a lawyer. And then all bets are off. Don't believe me the media is littered with cases where people approached this subject reasonably as if the person they were divorcing is still a friend.
Lawyers are vultures they will see your assets and high income ( your statement) as something to be 'mined.' for their own benefit. None of them (well the liars) are in it for altruistic reasons. At worst the more unscrupulous ones will advise your current friendly wife that she should make the first strike and all of sudden you will find yourself in court on spurious charges/ possibly even criminal charges trying to divorce something you thought was a friend. Again do not believe me think Johnny Depp, Mel Gibson the list is endless. It is seen as a tactic by these unscrupulous lawyers to put you on the back foot and gain an advantage in the courtroom. Because what Judge is going to feel sorry for you when facing such allegations...
Lawyers are vultures they will see your assets and high income ( your statement) as something to be 'mined.' for their own benefit. None of them (well the liars) are in it for altruistic reasons. At worst the more unscrupulous ones will advise your current friendly wife that she should make the first strike and all of sudden you will find yourself in court on spurious charges/ possibly even criminal charges trying to divorce something you thought was a friend. Again do not believe me think Johnny Depp, Mel Gibson the list is endless. It is seen as a tactic by these unscrupulous lawyers to put you on the back foot and gain an advantage in the courtroom. Because what Judge is going to feel sorry for you when facing such allegations...
Apr 25th 2018, 8:02 am
#30
Just Joined
Joined: Apr 2018
Location: Doha
Posts: 7
Re: Divorce for Fathers
To be honest, try to settle with her out of court and avoid those bloody lawyers. They will drain your wallet seriously.
I was in a similar situation, Married in Dubai with a Russian, luckily enough never registered it back home in Europe, my son was born in Dubai (costed me a fortune on hospital bills just for delivery only (approx 90K AED), my ex wife working for EK had a shit insurance so I ended up paying for all out of my pocket)
The mess all started when I was laid off from a well known energy company in Abu Dhabi (basically just kicked out as too expensive for them). I did manage to find pretty quick work as Technical Manager for a energy company based in Doha, Qatar including a full family contract with all the benefits ect. Madame the princess didn't want to move along as she didn't liked Qatar so, she filed a divorce case against me in the Dubai courts. (I was at the time already in Qatar and wasn't aware of those proceedings)
Her lawyer, managed to get hold of my icloud email address (never been using that) and forwarded me a nice letter by email, that I only saw like 3 weeks after it was sent. In first instance i thought it was a 1 April joke as the letter was full with grammatical errors (claiming that I was still living in a residence at Dubai that has never ever been mine, wrong contact information and my name misspelled) She was demanding all kind of ridiculous things that I had to pay for her housing in Dubai, her cost of living and lot's of insults being made up out of nowhere. Basically the madame in question always has had a perfect life in Dubai, living in the marina, her own car and never had to paid for anything as she had a credit card from me.
Anyway they make some kind of appointment in the court where they ask you to show up, hence I couldn't be bothered as 1st. nobody asked me personally (I would expect a letter of invitation where I should sign for receipt right ?) 2nd. I was busy with work in Qatar. I've informed my sponsor in Qatar (oil company) on the occurrence and since then I've never ever heard anything from it anymore. I've asked several times to her lawyer and the ex in question if I could get a copy of the court papers that the divorce was granted (never got it)
On a side note, She took my son out of the UAE without my permission hence, I could have had her prosecuted for child abduction, destroyed her career with Emirates and get her eventually deported back to the lovely Russia. I didn't as I don't see the point of endless court battles and fighting against a person whom you once loved. (basically the court would demand me paying for her as she would be jobless/homeless and 30% of my salary would have been more as her salary with EK. that trick didn't work out for her, getting money and not working)
As for me, I live a good life apart from having lost my son for which I hold her responsible on his well-being. (I'm always prepared to pay everything for my son on the condition that she sent me the bills and till to date she failed to do so which pretty much leaves me up with the idea that she has been stealing money from me before)
Anyway, I wish you good luck. As you can see your'e not the only one.
I was in a similar situation, Married in Dubai with a Russian, luckily enough never registered it back home in Europe, my son was born in Dubai (costed me a fortune on hospital bills just for delivery only (approx 90K AED), my ex wife working for EK had a shit insurance so I ended up paying for all out of my pocket)
The mess all started when I was laid off from a well known energy company in Abu Dhabi (basically just kicked out as too expensive for them). I did manage to find pretty quick work as Technical Manager for a energy company based in Doha, Qatar including a full family contract with all the benefits ect. Madame the princess didn't want to move along as she didn't liked Qatar so, she filed a divorce case against me in the Dubai courts. (I was at the time already in Qatar and wasn't aware of those proceedings)
Her lawyer, managed to get hold of my icloud email address (never been using that) and forwarded me a nice letter by email, that I only saw like 3 weeks after it was sent. In first instance i thought it was a 1 April joke as the letter was full with grammatical errors (claiming that I was still living in a residence at Dubai that has never ever been mine, wrong contact information and my name misspelled) She was demanding all kind of ridiculous things that I had to pay for her housing in Dubai, her cost of living and lot's of insults being made up out of nowhere. Basically the madame in question always has had a perfect life in Dubai, living in the marina, her own car and never had to paid for anything as she had a credit card from me.
Anyway they make some kind of appointment in the court where they ask you to show up, hence I couldn't be bothered as 1st. nobody asked me personally (I would expect a letter of invitation where I should sign for receipt right ?) 2nd. I was busy with work in Qatar. I've informed my sponsor in Qatar (oil company) on the occurrence and since then I've never ever heard anything from it anymore. I've asked several times to her lawyer and the ex in question if I could get a copy of the court papers that the divorce was granted (never got it)
On a side note, She took my son out of the UAE without my permission hence, I could have had her prosecuted for child abduction, destroyed her career with Emirates and get her eventually deported back to the lovely Russia. I didn't as I don't see the point of endless court battles and fighting against a person whom you once loved. (basically the court would demand me paying for her as she would be jobless/homeless and 30% of my salary would have been more as her salary with EK. that trick didn't work out for her, getting money and not working)
As for me, I live a good life apart from having lost my son for which I hold her responsible on his well-being. (I'm always prepared to pay everything for my son on the condition that she sent me the bills and till to date she failed to do so which pretty much leaves me up with the idea that she has been stealing money from me before)
Anyway, I wish you good luck. As you can see your'e not the only one.
