mentalist

What is wrong with these people? Strange that this story was prominantly displayed on Yahoo UK earlier today but now seems to have mysteriously been moved.
http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/01/30/s...private-prayer

Meow

The even stupider thing is that it's unIslamic to do that. Quotes from the Qu'ran:

"You have your religion, and I have mine" (Qur'an 109:6)
"Let there be no compulsion in religion" (Qur'an 2:256)


The narrow-minded, uneducated, lack of tolerance is what really annoys me.

Bahtatboy

But--and I hate to say this and I know its not a complete answer--you can't blame the individuals involved. You can't blame someone for lack of experience. You can't blame someone for the way they've been educated. You can't blame someone for the way they've been raised. You can't blame someone for the way they've been indoctrinated. You can't blame someone for not having vision if everyone he meets and interacts with has--and is forced to have--the same lack of vision.

Any change can only come from the top, and therein lies the problem. I don't believe that those at the top in Saudi know how to instill in their citizens the breadth of vision they proclaim and try to display to the west. At every step down the line there will resistance (both voiced and unvoiced) that the chance of any change actually being achieved is close to nil. And will the west really pile on the pressure to help force that change through? I think we all know the answer to that.

Millhouse

why not? It's what we do on here all the time.

Meow

I blame a whole culture when it comes to KSA!

They don't allow people to be properly educated. Too many have indoctrination, not education. Yes, it has to be altered from the top down, but it seems that the ruling family have a vested interest in keeping their people subjugated.

If the Imans are the teachers of religion, is it too much to ask that they have actually read and understood the Qu'ran? Does no one else read it and ever question how the actual practices are not as set out in the Qu'ran?

I often wonder why those who claim they are very religious get so upset by others who don't follow their faith. Why are they so threatened by different beliefs if they are so secure in their own faith?

Meow

Fair point. And would we make the same comments if say, a Western Christian behaved in a similar fashion, I accept that there is less access to other beliefs in places like KSA, but there are still those who manage to use their brains.

Frankly, it's all just more evidence of the hypocrisy of religions. Pretty much all religions. And don't even get me started on the bloody Catholic church.

seven seas

extra word in there....

Bahtatboy

"normal"?

Spugsy

As far as I'm concerned anyone who goes there to live or work is mental. It sounds to me like the worst place on earth.

If a hole opened up and it fell into the centre of the earth I'd not bat an eyelid.

Canary.

These so-called Muslims are barely Muslims, they don't practice their religion, don't try to learn it, have no clue what the basic essence is, have no idea how the religion was founded, what the word Muslim & Islam means, or what the Quran contains... I could go on & on & on. Futile argument at the end of the day when the other party just doesn't want to listen!

For the 'Muslims' that have read the Quran, they don't understand it or strive to do so, having 'read' a book in a foreign language seems to suffice for them to classify themselves under the banner of that religion. [given the difficulty level of the Arabic used in the Quran I dont think many Arabs fully understand it either - I just assume this given if they could they wouldn't act like this & women would know their given place in society per Islam]

Truly beyond me as to why someone would not educate themselves on the principles of their own religion, or just apply a little basic logic & discuss matters of religion if there is any ambiguity - as Islam requires them to do anyway. (Can't quote the Quran Ayat) Debating Islam, for some unknown reason, has become a taboo and is weirdly is frowned upon.

I've lost count of the amount of times I've got into an argument over the 4 witness rule for rape cases. Apparently that was what Islam said per some idotic misogynist human being[read:animal] & thats that. No arguing with it now b'coz thats what most people believe simply because thats what they have been told from the onset. Having studied Islam I know that this is not actually the case, no witnesses are req'd, an account from the woman and/or medical evidence are enough. Lets not even begin with marital rape..

Either way, per Islam, they are sinning by not allowing freedom of religion. There are no two possible opinions to it. Pretty much end of.

hoofie2002

Lets be honest, to those of use who have lived or do live in Saudi Arabia it's hardly a great shock is it ? We all know the treatment you receive at the hands of the Muttawa etc. is linked to your ethnicity.

I note it said that some of the women had 'cavity searches' - in other words some sick bastard Muttawa got his chance in to finger a woman knowing there was no comeback. Methinks they wouldn't try that one if it was 3 expat nurses from King Fahd etc.

shiva

The west wants to talk about change to pacify its own people's whilst patiently waiting for the oil to run out whereupon the Americans will gladly turn the region to glass.
Regionally There is no appetite for change at the top why would there be it would be self defeating at this point, give it another 50 years and there will be a monumental shift in attitudes as the income dries up literally and the state handouts wither.
In the meantime the two buckets continue to fill up and it's a race to see which one overflows first

Desert Dubliner

Well, other religions are illegal here. I am not making a judgement on whether this is right or wrong but if one moves here this is something one should be aware of.

NurseNinja

See... I gotta say im coming at this from a different angle. You go to work on an oil rig, you accept that there will be no smoking allowed, no booze, most likely no women. you go to work in a space station you accept that you will need to wear a space suit if you want to go outside...

you go to work in saudi arabia you accept that you cant have prayer meetings and informal interaction between unmarried females and males....

not getting into the right or wrong of it, but from a pragmatic perspective they were doing something they know the saudi police love to frown on, justified or not!


(of course the cavity searches later, etc is another matter)

Norm_uk

Unless one follows the concept of abrogation, which would mean the above verses have been superseded by things like "fight until all religion is for Allah" etc etc.

In any case Saudi has been doing this for many years. I've seen the stripes on the back of a Filipino Engineer caught leading a private prayer meeting in his accommodation a few years ago.

Welcome to the world of Wahhabi Islam...one of the biggest sources of funding for mosques and religious schools in the West.

N.