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Completing N138 to pay National Insurance whilst overseas - which class?

Completing N138 to pay National Insurance whilst overseas - which class?

Old Mar 28th 2016, 5:51 am
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Default Completing N138 to pay National Insurance whilst overseas - which class?

Good Morning Expats!

I am returning to the ME again, this time back to KSA with the same employer as 2001 - 2004.

I am flying 1st April - 5 days time! 29 month contract initially.

I would like to pay voluntary NIC's while I am there to ensure I keep my state pension contributions up to date. I already have 30 years but, now that they have upped this to 35 I want to keep ahead of the game.

I have printed of form N138 ready to complete. Seems quite straightforward.

Last time I did this I am fairly sure I paid class 2. Is this still the same?

Thanks for any help/advice
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Old Mar 28th 2016, 9:07 am
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Default Re: Completing N138 to pay National Insurance whilst overseas - which class?

You can still pay Class 2 for the time being but that changes from April 2018 as announced in the last budget.

UK Budget March 2016 – what expats need to know | Financial Planning in the UAE
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Old Mar 28th 2016, 9:43 am
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Default Re: Completing N138 to pay National Insurance whilst overseas - which class?

Thanks Meow, I knew would drop by with the answer
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Old Mar 29th 2016, 3:47 am
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Default Re: Completing N138 to pay National Insurance whilst overseas - which class?

I pay class 2 as I was self-employed prior to emigrating and was paying class 2 in the UK. Class 2 is way cheaper than Class 3 so while the chancellor may be doing the self-employed in the UK a favour, he isn't for those of us overseas who still want to contribute to our UK pension:

"Class 2 NIC contributions are currently £2.80 per week, whereas Class 3 NIC contributions are currently £14.10 per week (2015/16 rates). Class 3 NICs do not accrue entitlement to contribution-based employment and support allowance, whereas Class 2 NICs do accrue entitlement to these state benefits."

I was told that unless you are already paying class 2 in the UK prior to leaving, you are not eligible to pay this class while overseas but would have to pay class 3.

Seems like this might not be the case though?
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Old Mar 29th 2016, 10:45 am
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Default Re: Completing N138 to pay National Insurance whilst overseas - which class?

Why on earth would you expect the Chancellor of the Exchequer to do expats, who are mostly contributing little to the UK in the way of taxes, a favour?
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Old Mar 29th 2016, 3:43 pm
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Default Re: Completing N138 to pay National Insurance whilst overseas - which class?

This might help the OP:

Living and working abroad

Voluntary National Insurance

You must be eligible to pay voluntary National Insurance contributions for the time that the contributions cover. You can usually only pay for gaps in your National Insurance record from the past 6 years.

"Class 2 - but only if you worked in the UK immediately before leaving, and you’ve previously lived in the UK for 3 years in a row or paid 3 years’ National Insurance"

HMRC told me not to bother when I enquired after moving overseas, since NI contributions are mandatory if/ when you return to work in the UK, even if you exceed the 35 years required for full state pension. I might have to reconsider this, as I've been in the ME for near 6 years now, and not sure if/ when I'll return to the UK to work.

Last edited by Johnnyboy11; Mar 29th 2016 at 3:49 pm.
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Old Mar 29th 2016, 5:40 pm
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Default Re: Completing N138 to pay National Insurance whilst overseas - which class?

Thanks JB
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Old Mar 29th 2016, 6:18 pm
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Default Re: Completing N138 to pay National Insurance whilst overseas - which class?

Originally Posted by sicklyman View Post
..... I was told that unless you are already paying class 2 in the UK prior to leaving, you are not eligible to pay this class while overseas but would have to pay class 3.

Seems like this might not be the case though?
Right, that is not correct. I pay Class 2 now that I live in the US, despite being an employee in the UK (I have no idea what "Class" I was paying when I was in the UK, but it certainly wasn't Class 2. )
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Old Mar 30th 2016, 3:41 am
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Default Re: Completing N138 to pay National Insurance whilst overseas - which class?

Originally Posted by Meow View Post
Why on earth would you expect the Chancellor of the Exchequer to do expats, who are mostly contributing little to the UK in the way of taxes, a favour?
I guess you're right.

Us little folks who as you say "contribute little to the UK in the way of taxes" should not expect any favours like the ones afforded to non-doms or big corporations who "contribute little [read nothing] to the UK in the way of taxes."

Thanks for reminding me what world I live in.
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Old Mar 31st 2016, 12:41 pm
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Default Re: Completing N138 to pay National Insurance whilst overseas - which class?

oh jeeze I haven't paid any NIC since I moved here - am I too late to contribute? or can I start to contribute and if so will I have to back date my contribution from the time I moved here?


Any advice would be appreciated
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Old Mar 31st 2016, 1:00 pm
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Default Re: Completing N138 to pay National Insurance whilst overseas - which class?

Originally Posted by mission View Post
oh jeeze I haven't paid any NIC since I moved here - am I too late to contribute? or can I start to contribute and if so will I have to back date my contribution from the time I moved here? ......
You can recommence at any time, and have the opportunity to pay six years in arrears, but you are not obligated to do so. If you are eligible for Class 2 contributions you would be recommended to pay the arrears because they are a bargain, around £143/yr. From 2018 Class 2 is no longer going to be an option for expats, and Class 3 contributions (which everyone is assuming will be the alternative), run £730/yr, so grabas many "Class 2 years" as you can!

You have apply for and request Class 2 contributions, but if you were employed before and after you emigrated you should be approved easily.

Last edited by Pulaski; Mar 31st 2016 at 1:03 pm.
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Old Mar 31st 2016, 1:13 pm
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Default Re: Completing N138 to pay National Insurance whilst overseas - which class?

Originally Posted by mission View Post
oh jeeze I haven't paid any NIC since I moved here - am I too late to contribute? or can I start to contribute and if so will I have to back date my contribution from the time I moved here?


Any advice would be appreciated
Under current rules you can restart paying at any time but this is optional. No obligation to make any back payments.

I'd suggest you obtain a forecast (google BR19) and find out how many years you have in the system so far to see where you stand.
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Old Apr 1st 2016, 2:51 pm
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Default Re: Completing N138 to pay National Insurance whilst overseas - which class?

Originally Posted by LAMMIMAN View Post
Hi there, in addition to all the great advice above on the specific NIC rules, just one observation: you say '29 month contract initially' - If you are considering staying abroad longer term and maybe retire abroad, .....
There are some real sharks out there, preying on vulnerable expats who are unsure of their future and their pension arrangements. I would have absolutely NOTHING to do with some shyster touting his investment advisory services on a web forum.
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Old Apr 2nd 2016, 4:11 am
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Default Re: Completing N138 to pay National Insurance whilst overseas - which class?

I have a question that fits here.

If you have already paid 35 years NIC but have left UK and do not plan to return am I right in thinking that nothing further need be paid in the way of NIC and yet a full basic state pension will be paid at the appropriate age?

Thanks
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Old Apr 2nd 2016, 4:38 am
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Default Re: Completing N138 to pay National Insurance whilst overseas - which class?

Originally Posted by martinbkk View Post
I have a question that fits here.

If you have already paid 35 years NIC but have left UK and do not plan to return am I right in thinking that nothing further need be paid in the way of NIC and yet a full basic state pension will be paid at the appropriate age? ....
Yes, but that could change at any time between you leaving the UK and reaching retirement age. You should keep up with any news and developments, and potentially be prepared to pay for additional years right up to the moment you retire. Also make sure the DWP has your current address so they can contact you.
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