KJinDoha

You seem to have to make many assumptions to arrive at this conclusion.

I have not seen any credible analysis on the micro economic impact of immigration to/from the UK. But the general feeling by most rational people is that it has been an overall economic [and cultural] benefit, to the 'average brit'.

Nobody can say definitively if those with British lineage (or whatever measure of 'brittishnes' people like iggle use) are better of worse. The fact is that it is irreversible, and for good reason. British nationality law and subsequent culture is largely the result of the British post-colonial reawakening.

DXBtoDOH

What you say is subjective, no? Who are you to claim "most rational people"? Have you decided who in the UK are rational and who are not, and have you personally interviewed all of them?

From what I can gather the strongest claim given for the benefit of immigration is two-fold: 1) diversity is a net good and therefore immigration is good because it makes the population more diverse (a highly debatable assumption but that is the modern morality these days), and 2) immigration is funding the pension of the elderly population.

Of the two the latter is more sensible but the claims and models put forward to justify the immigration on the grounds of funding future pensions never bother to account for that the immigrants will be retirees some day and thus need to have their pensions funded too (in short it's a ponzi scheme); nor do such economic models seem to account for the pressures of a rising population on, say, housing prices and demand for accommodation, particularly in London and the Southeast which has seen most of the population and economic growth, or the cost to social services (schools, hospitals, you name it).

It's a very complicated topic, and frankly, it's going to be hard to argue that immigration is a net benefit for the average Briton if the average Briton is more worried about, say, housing affordability for his children, access to social services and so forth, than their future pension.

That you use the term "post colonial reawakening" strongly implies you have your own particular bias when it comes to the immigration topic. Why would you ever use the term "reawakening"? What does immigration or increasing diversity have to do with reawakening?

KJinDoha

I agree with your points and yes it's very complicated. I like your analysis of the second claim - funding of pensions.

I guess I should give a caveat with the term "most rational people", as it's too broad.

And by "reawakening" I am talking about a new feeling toward the matter. As I understand that the history of British imperialism was a big factor toward the immigration policies.

DXBtoDOH

The role of imperialism in today's immigration is that it provided the link between the ex-colonies and the UK as the original immigrants (non Irish, that is) came to Britain from the ex colonies through policies that allowed easier emigration.

But in the genuinely imperial days (pre WWII and break up of empire in the 40s-50s) the UK was a heavily lily white country (95+%). There was certainly no desire or attempt by the imperial UK to diversify its own country's population, the concept itself would have been quite laughable. It is to the UK's credit that we are much more open and tolerant society today than in the 1950s.

What makes the whole immigration picture so murky and complicated is that too many people try to frame it within very harshly defined parameters ( immigration = money = good, immigration = diversity = moral good and thus cultural solidarity = evil and worrying about social identity = bad, implications of different, even radically different cultural values = scaremongering and Islamophobia, as well as the vice versa stance exhibited the oiks in the BNP).

The British have, historically and certainly compared to much of the world, been a very tolerant people. But I do think there's a growing sentiment (certainly demonstrated by Brexit) in that we may have gone too far and been too generous too rapidly without really questioning what Britain wanted for itself and its future, rather than an ideology quietly imposed on a population by its government. Which is why claims of immigration as a positive economic force is increasingly falling on deaf ears - those making such claims forget that for many people, there's more to life than economics.

And people like Iggles, as nasty and rude and brutish as he may be, do sort have a point in reminding the debaters that much of the immigration debate has been one-sided. No one is pointing at Pakistan or Nigeria and saying you need to diversify. Ironically enough, much of the world can use claims of cultural sensitivity to prevent or to control growing diversity (see the Gulf states as a perfect example) without admonishment but the Western countries are not allowed to take the same stance. It is hypocritical. But that's modern sensibilities for you.

Sabi Star

About 1/4 of the British population could qualify for Irish passport. Unfortunately(?) for them the Dublin Records Office was burnt down in 1917 thus destroying most birth certificates before that date.

weasel decentral

Burned down during the civil war I believe.

Personally I don't think having a huge new amount of Irish passport holders rather than active Irish citizens is a good thing. I would prefer emigrants or people being naturalised after living here rather than just foreign based passport holders 'technically Irish'

mission

why the hell did my comment to IGGLY get deleted....WTF!

Charl01

Maybe because you said ***** ??

morpeth

Excuse me, I will ask same question which you graciously answered, because above answer confuses me.

My grandparents British as was my mother. I was born in UK ( father is American) and have British passport. My daughter born overseas and received British passport at birth, her mother not British.

My understanding was that if my daughter has children outside UK, they wont be British unless she lives in UK for three years at some point before she has children. Is that correct ?

Sabi Star

Obviously, people with Brit passports who own property, have businesses or work in Europe at present would try to get an Irish passport should they get very penalized there or indeed told to leave those European countries. If you have an Irish grand parent you are entitled to claim an Irish Passport - the problem is getting their birth cert. (even if you yourself have a very common Irish surname). I do not see why people whose grand parent was born before 1917 can't be allowed seeing how all those birth certs. were destroyed through no fault of their own. And people with any Irish heritage still feel Irish - look at Boston USA.

weasel decentral

I wasn't really disagreeing with you, it is just my preference that if you want to hold an Irish passport then be a citizen and part of Ireland. Not to continue to live abroad and use it to circumvent Brexit, no matter how Irish you feel.

scrubbedexpat141

You name is French.

BritInParis

As the law stands a British citizen by descent any children your daughter has outside the UK will not be British citizens at birth. If your daughter spends at least three consecutive years in the UK before her children are born then they would be eligible to be registered as British citizens before they turn 18. This is known as Section 3(2) registration. This will confer British citizenship by descent and they will be unable to pass on their citizenship to their own children born outside the UK regardless of the length of time they spend in the UK before their births.*

The alternative would be for your daughter to move to the UK with her children and live together in the UK for at least three years before they turn 18 and then register them as British citizens. This is known as Section 3(5) registration and confers British citizenship otherwise than by descent meaning that your daughter's grandchildren will automatically be British citizens regardless of where they are born.

*Section 3(5) registration would however remain an option.

Jerseygirl

It was abusive and you also tried to get around the BE sweary filter. Any further comments about my actions please PM me.

Pongo

http://https://www.gov.uk/types-of-b...sh-citizenshiphttps://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality/british-citizenship