Shandyclover

Hi! I'm Shandclover - and new here.

Currently I live in UK but I lived and worked 17 years abroad.

I'm trying to find out some information for my brother. He lives and works in the middle east and is married to a swedish girl. He has 3 children. 1 born in Thailand and the other 2 in Jordan. He recently tried to register their births at the embassy but was told since he had failed to do it at the time of their birth he could no longer get an British Birth Certificate for them. What he's worried about is what happens when they grow up. We both already have a few friends who though being English and even having an English passport, were born abroad and married foreigners. They are finding it very difficult to claim citizenship for their kids and are having to resort to going back to UK to have their babies. My brother was born in UK, so if he can't get his kids a british birth certificate - how else can he make sure they become british citizens and pass it on the their children?

Jellybean

Your facts are correct, you have so many days to register a birth to get a British Passport. There may be ways around it but I am sorry I do not know what they might be.

Frans Wind

Okay, I'm not a UK national, but I know there is a trick that works in Europe. If you try to apply for a dual nationality for your childern in the country they where born in, the official paperwork in most cases assumes the Fathers nationality to be that of the child in question. What I'm trying to say is at least you would have an official document (passport) that would mention the childs nationality as (also) being British. (Even if the Dual Nationality is denied, the paperwork in question will mention the child / childern as also being British)

In such a case, you could request a British judge to revoke the Dual Nationality thereby giving the child (childern) there original nationality back, being British. It's a long shot, but in most cases childern with a dual nationality are allowed to stay in both countries freely. However, the request to revoke a Dual Nationality must be made by both parents before the child or childern in question reach the age of 18. Atleast in Europe, therefore maybe it might be wise to request the Swedish government to recognise the childern as being of British / Swedish origin. If the Mother still holds a Swedish passport, that could be rather easy to do.

Frans

P.S. I myself am trying to get rid of a US / Dutch dual nationality and spent a rather long time trying verious ways of achieving that. I know how difficult it can be for a country to then recognise you.

Shandyclover

Hmm...the bizzarre thing is the children all have a British passport! Seems like you can have a British passport but this does not entitle you to be able to pass on British citizenship to your children. A British passport doesn't seem to be what it used to be. I found this out the hard way. I was abroad with my parents when I turned 16 so I did not get a NI no. Four years ago I returned to UK armed with my British birth certificate and my British passport only to be told since I did not have a NI no. I could not work - nor could I apply for benefits nor could I get any kind of help as a refugee - I guess I didn't fit any of the criteria for anything! The ironic thing was this was all told me in the office which was situated opposite to the hospital in which I was born! I applied for a NI no. and thankfully some friends who heard of my plight took me in - though I had to wait 3 mos before I could earn any money to pay them back!

Frans Wind

Same with me, I hade to register with the police in Holland and wasn't allowed to work for a time span of three years. Thank god, next year I can (finally) apear in front of a US judge and hand in the damn passport for good !!!

Frans Wind

I think your childern have wat is called a British D/N Passport. Meaning that the UK government knows they where born outside of the UK and most likely hold a second passport. If international nationality laws apply in the UK, and your childerns "childern" never apply for a active second passport, they automatically become 100% British nationals. It's called birth right, you might want to inquire about that, often unknown posibility.

Frans

Shandyclover

Thanks Frans...These are my brother's kids. I'll pass on this to him. Though considering what I've found out maybe he'll inquire into them being Swedish nationals (he's married to a swedish girl). Seems a whole lot easier and from what I've heard it's a lovely unspoilt country!

Frans Wind

If your brother's wife still has her Swedish passport? Let her add her childern into that passport as well. All these little pain in the ass steps can help a lot when back in Europe or the UK. And with the borders of Fortress Europe closing so damn fast? It might be a wise move.

Frans

Frans Wind

Sorry about the typing mistake. I ofcourse ment your brothers childern.

As I don't have Madonna's bank accounts? It took me ten years to become 100% Dutch again. Next year? The handing over of the passport? Is only a formality.

Bob

Might want to post in the moving back to UK section, lots of help there, JAJ knows quite a lot about this.

As for citizenship, normally have to register that within a short period like already said, but there are ways of getting it I gathered. Being born out of the UK means that they would get citizen by decent, which means that if they have children, there children would have to be born in the UK to have the citizenship passed onto them.

As for dual nationality, the UK has no problems with it, so that isn't an issue with the UK, could be with the other national, but chances are if there in the EU, it probably isn't, espcially if it is citizenship gained at birth.

JAJ

Depends on circumstances - usually if one of the parents is born or naturalised in the UK the child is *automatically* British and hence there's no time limit for registration. It is easier to document citizenship early in life however, and in one of the exceptions for which registration is necessary then there will be a time limit for that.

Never assume your children have a particular citizenship unless they have a citizenship certificate or passport. Making assumptions like this is a good way for your children to have a nasty surprise later in life.

Jeremy

JAJ

No country in Europe gives citizenship automatically to all children born there. (I believe the Irish were the last to change, with effect from 1 January 2005).


Nationality is determined independently by each country. So the UK only has jurisdiction over who is a British citizen.

And the law is very clear in the UK - once a child is a British citizen there is *no* way for the child to lose that status other than by renouncing it as an adult.


Jeremy

JAJ

There is no such thing as a "British D/N passport"

Many British citizens born overseas do not hold the citizenship of the country of birth.


What 'international nationality laws'?



If you are a British citizen by descent you stay that way for life irrespective of what other passport you may hold. Being British by descent doesn't make any difference to your rights except that it means that you cannot *automatically* pass on British citizenship to a child born outside the UK and its territories. It may be possible to register such a child as British - depending on circumstances.


Jeremy

Bob

I knew JAJ would come in and sort things out

Frans Wind

Sorry to correct you on this Jeremy. But born from Dutch parents automatically gives you the Dutch Nationality. Even if the childern where born outside of Holland. I can't speak for other countries, that why I stayed as careful and nutrual as possible.

Frans