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Brief history of Saudi

Brief history of Saudi

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Old Jun 3rd 2005, 7:42 pm
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Default Brief history of Saudi

Some intresting reading about Saudi - use it, don't use...


House of Cards
As King Fahd's health takes a turn for the worse, jitters about the future of Saudi Arabia ripple through Saudi Arabia. Powerful princes jockey for whose vision of the country will prevail after this generation of leaders is gone.


The Al Sauds and Al Wahhabs of the desert
About 250 years ago the Arabian Peninsula was dominated by loosely grouped Bedouin with different Islamic practices and who kept themselves busy with intertribal raiding and retaining control of their tribal oases.

During this time, about 1 500 descendents of an enigmatic leader, Muhammed Ibn Saud, formed the Al Saud dynasty, taking over some date groves outside Riyadh and developing a town.

At the same time a refugee religious reformer, Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab had taken it upon himself to restore what he perceived as the original Moslem religious practice of the prophet Mohammed's time. Searching for an ally who could help him spread the word, he met up with Muhammad ibn Saud and the two hit it off immediately. Al Saud realised that the potential force of Wahhab's religious message could be the catalyst his and other tribes needed to go forth and conquer more of Arabia. The two swore a traditional Muslim oath in which they promised to work together to establish a state run according to Islamic principles. They sealed their common goal in 1744 by uniting their children in marriage.

To this day many Arabs – including the royal family – arrange marriages (often between family members related to each other, such as cousins) with the sole purpose of strengthening the tribe, and/or keeping the money in the family.

For the next 200-odd years, the two families and their ever-increasing followers waged a series of bloody holy wars across the region. Intra-family rivalries, betrayals and sudden reversals of fortune ensued as Ibn Saud's descendents were deposed, betrayed, assassinated, defeated and, at times, retreated into exile. But they persevered and eventually captured enough tribes to conquer the region. While military leadership went to the Al Sauds, their secret weapon was the Wahhabi ideology which forged a sense of common identity in captured tribes. It undercut traditional hierarchies of power and made devotion to Islam and Ibn Saud as the rightly guided Islamic ruler the glue that would hold their kingdom together to this day.

Intra-family rivalries


In 1932, Abdul Aziz II Ibn Saud (1880-1953), a direct descendent of Mohammed Ibn Saud and a cunning warmonger, overthrew the last of the resistance and proclaimed the formation of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia with its unique family governing system. It became the only country in the world named after its founder. Abdul Aziz Ibn Saud officially had 16 wives and 37 sons, four of whom have ruled the kingdom since his death. The eldest, Saud, passed the crown to Faisal in 1964, who was assassinated by a deranged nephew in 1975. Illness reduced Faisal's successor, Khalid, to a puppet king. Then-Crown Prince Fahd wielded behind-the-scenes power until Khalid's death in 1982, when Fahd became king. Upon suffering a debilitating stroke in 1995, his half-brother Crown Prince Abdullah took over the reigns. Which is were we are today.




The current King Fahd was born in Riyadh in 1923, the eldest of seven sons born to Hassa bint Ahmad al-Sudairi, Ibn Saud's sixth and favourite wife. Author of the Princess Trilogy Jean Sasson says King Fahd was somewhat wild in his youth, did a lot of drinking and gambling and aroused a lot of anger in the religious clerics in Saudi Arabia. Which is why his brother Khalid was called in to be King and Fahd was Crown Prince under his reign. Later he began to act more appropriately for his position as ruler and there was less resistance against his rule when Khalid died.

The Sudairi Seven vs Crown Prince Abdullah

During his rule King Fahd (who has three wives, eight sons and five daughters) had appointed his six full brothers – dubbed, with Fahd, the "Sudairi Seven" after their mother's clan – to every major post in Saudi government, and today the Sudairi men still hold the lion's share of power. Crown Prince Abdullah, has no full brothers, which makes his position potentially weaker than that of the powerful Sudairi Seven, but enables him to form his own alliances with other half-brothers among the sons of Ibn Saud. Prince Abdullah has four wives, seven sons and 15 daughters.

Since Prince Abdullah's mother was tribal and he himself spent much of his youth in the desert, his loyalty is towards the tribesman and conservatives. The 60 000 strong National Guard, of who he is commander, was originally made up of the finest of the fierce Bedouin warriors who helped Abdullah's father unite the tribes of Arabia. Although he is committed to reform, he has not openly embraced the West and has criticised the Bush administration for their support of Israel. Prince Abdullah, described by Western diplomats as an Arab nationalist, a good Muslim, incorrupt and popular, has attempted to reform the Saudi economy and reduce expenditures on subsidies and perks, including the costly stipends paid monthly to the thousands of royal princes.

Some say Crown Prince Abdullah lacks the authority as acting regent to impose his will on the rest of the royal family. And, even if Prince Abdullah became king, it's not a given that he will have enough broadly based support within the family to move as quickly and dramatically as the reformers want.

The royal family is becoming increasingly divided on the pace and direction of reform. Sudairi brothers Interior Minister Prince Nayef and Defence Minister Prince Sultan are said to oppose quick reforms and have shored up their relations with the Wahhabists in the hope of winning their favour and support for Prince Sultan's appointment as crown prince once King Fahd passes away. And while the family arguably should be united against Al Qaeda, which aims to bring down the House of Saud, rumours persist of royal family, particularly some of the Sudairis, financial support for the organisation.

The glory days are over

For the last 25 years, the royal family has played a dangerous game: living in the lap of Western luxury, while forcing their subjects to follow the strict Wahhabist ideology. This can't last. Wahhabists denounce all of Western modernity and have provided the ideological and financial basis for most of the active Islamic terrorist groups. To pacify them, according to the U.S. Institute for Global Engagement, the House of Saud has pumped billions of dollars into the worldwide Wahhabist movement. But still the Wahhabists have turned on the royal family and proved that the Al Sauds are not upholding their side of the original bargain. In a strategic move to gain power, the Sudairi Seven, or what's left of them, have sided with the group, leaving Abdullah out in the cold.




He's not the only one feeling the chill. Saudi per capita income has fallen from $25,000 in 1980 to $8,000 in 2003. The decline in per-capita income from 1980 to 1999 set a record, being by far the worst such decline suffered by any nation-state in history. The CIA World Factbook ranks Saudi GDP per capita at 73rd in the world (South Africa is 78th).

So while the Saudi princes appropriate most of the oil wealth, the average Saudi citizen grows poorer and poorer. Saudi citizens are well aware of the royal family's hypocrisy. And so they turn to the only ones they can – the religious leaders, who promise more Islam, not less. If present trends continue – an exploding population, a declining educational system, a rotting welfare state – Saudi Arabia will be a poor country in 25 years. Crown Prince Abdullah told the nation in a widely noted 1996 speech: "The era of the oil boom is over."

What will happen now?

Rumours have surfaced among Riyadh's ruling elite that Fahd is clinically dead – but even if this were true, any official announcement would be delayed until a final decision on Fahd's successor has been taken. Right now there is heavy security around the King Faisal hospital in Riyadh and Saudi security sources have said a number of princes from the ruling family have been arriving in the capital. Although unconfirmed, local residents in turn have seen US troops being deployed to Tabuk and have been seen in several other eastern cities; likely in preparation for instability that is sure to arise once King Fahd dies.

The crown doesn't necessarily pass to the eldest of Ibn Saud's sons but to the most "suitable" one, as chosen by the royal family in a secretive selection process. (Royals tend to reject heirs with extreme political views or mothers of low stature.) The chosen heir is given the title of crown prince and holds the position of first deputy prime minister in the king's Cabinet. However, the crown prince would not automatically succeed on the death of the king, but serve as provisional ruler until he, or a descendant of Ibn Saud deemed more suitable, was enthroned.

Simon Henderson, a senior fellow of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and author of After King Fahd: Succession in Saudi Arabia, had this to say in a recent Times Online article:

The death of the monarch is always tense. A three-day period of mourning, with borders and airports closed, was declared the last time it happened in 1982. The decision to treat Fahd in hospital rather than in the medical centres he has in his palaces appeared to be a sign of the seriousness of his condition. The problem this time is that while Fahd was only 61 when he acceded to the throne, Abdullah is 82. The principal contenders to become his crown prince are also elderly. Prince Sultan, the defence minister, is 81; Prince Nayef, the interior minister, is 72; and Prince Salman, the governor of Riyadh, is 69. All are full brothers of Fahd [members of the Sudairi Seven].

Sultan is a focus of particular anxiety among analysts. He would expect to be named crown prince. But cancer was diagnosed last year and after 43 years of authorising lucrative defence contracts he is seen by the people as extravagant.

Washington makes little secret of its preference that Abdullah should be succeeded by a younger and more modern king. The favourite of many western ambassadors is Prince Saud Al Faisal, the foreign minister, but even he is 64 and plagued by a bad back and Parkinson's disease.

When Fahd dies, things are expected to move fast. After King Khalid died in June 1982, he was buried, according to Wahhabi tradition, the same day, in an anonymous grave in the desert outside Riyadh. Fahd was also proclaimed king that day, and promptly appointed Abdullah as his crown prince. Failure to follow such procedures this time would suggest a problem, undermining economic confidence.

One concern is that rivals may use their military forces to press their ambitions [as almost happened when an interim leader had to be chosen after Fahd's stroke in the mid 90s]. Abdullah is commander of the national guard, a 100,000-strong force that is intensely loyal to him. Sultan theoretically controls the army, navy and air force, although few units are in Riyadh because of historical fears of a coup. Nayef's interior ministry forces outnumber those of both the others and include special forces. A 2 000-strong royal guard protecting the king would be a wild card.

Whatever happens, the result is unlikely to be a rapid change in the Saudi political system. Just two weeks ago, three reformers who had argued for a constitutional monarchy and criticised the Wahhabi-influenced educational system were sentenced to between six and nine years in jail for their temerity. Whatever the West wants, the House of Saud will handle succession its own way.

It seems unlikely that, in a decade since Fahd first took ill, they haven't prepared for the moment of King Fahd's death. In all likelihood Abdullah will become king, with Sultan as crown prince, and during their rule one of Ibn Saud's hundreds of grandsons and competing cousins will be groomed to take the role as the next generation's leaders of the House of Saud. That's if their enemies don't bring them down first.

If there's anything in particular you'd like to know about life in Saudi Arabia, or if you'd like to comment on this article, send me an email at [email protected]

Suggested reading:


For an objective view of Saudi Arabia's complex past, present and future, read Saudi Arabia: Country Profile
For a clear analysis of the intricacies of the Al Saud dynasty as rulers of Arabia, read Saudi leadership
And read up on Saudi Arabia's Politics of Reform and Terror
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Old Jun 3rd 2005, 8:20 pm
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Default Re: Brief history of Saudi

Originally Posted by stormer
Some intresting reading about Saudi - use it, don't use...


House of Cards
As King Fahd's health takes a turn for the worse, jitters about the future of Saudi Arabia ripple through Saudi Arabia. Powerful princes jockey for whose vision of the country will prevail after this generation of leaders is gone.


The Al Sauds and Al Wahhabs of the desert
About 250 years ago the Arabian Peninsula was dominated by loosely grouped Bedouin with different Islamic practices and who kept themselves busy with intertribal raiding and retaining control of their tribal oases.

During this time, about 1 500 descendents of an enigmatic leader, Muhammed Ibn Saud, formed the Al Saud dynasty, taking over some date groves outside Riyadh and developing a town.

At the same time a refugee religious reformer, Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab had taken it upon himself to restore what he perceived as the original Moslem religious practice of the prophet Mohammed's time. Searching for an ally who could help him spread the word, he met up with Muhammad ibn Saud and the two hit it off immediately. Al Saud realised that the potential force of Wahhab's religious message could be the catalyst his and other tribes needed to go forth and conquer more of Arabia. The two swore a traditional Muslim oath in which they promised to work together to establish a state run according to Islamic principles. They sealed their common goal in 1744 by uniting their children in marriage.

To this day many Arabs – including the royal family – arrange marriages (often between family members related to each other, such as cousins) with the sole purpose of strengthening the tribe, and/or keeping the money in the family.

For the next 200-odd years, the two families and their ever-increasing followers waged a series of bloody holy wars across the region. Intra-family rivalries, betrayals and sudden reversals of fortune ensued as Ibn Saud's descendents were deposed, betrayed, assassinated, defeated and, at times, retreated into exile. But they persevered and eventually captured enough tribes to conquer the region. While military leadership went to the Al Sauds, their secret weapon was the Wahhabi ideology which forged a sense of common identity in captured tribes. It undercut traditional hierarchies of power and made devotion to Islam and Ibn Saud as the rightly guided Islamic ruler the glue that would hold their kingdom together to this day.

Intra-family rivalries


In 1932, Abdul Aziz II Ibn Saud (1880-1953), a direct descendent of Mohammed Ibn Saud and a cunning warmonger, overthrew the last of the resistance and proclaimed the formation of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia with its unique family governing system. It became the only country in the world named after its founder. Abdul Aziz Ibn Saud officially had 16 wives and 37 sons, four of whom have ruled the kingdom since his death. The eldest, Saud, passed the crown to Faisal in 1964, who was assassinated by a deranged nephew in 1975. Illness reduced Faisal's successor, Khalid, to a puppet king. Then-Crown Prince Fahd wielded behind-the-scenes power until Khalid's death in 1982, when Fahd became king. Upon suffering a debilitating stroke in 1995, his half-brother Crown Prince Abdullah took over the reigns. Which is were we are today.




The current King Fahd was born in Riyadh in 1923, the eldest of seven sons born to Hassa bint Ahmad al-Sudairi, Ibn Saud's sixth and favourite wife. Author of the Princess Trilogy Jean Sasson says King Fahd was somewhat wild in his youth, did a lot of drinking and gambling and aroused a lot of anger in the religious clerics in Saudi Arabia. Which is why his brother Khalid was called in to be King and Fahd was Crown Prince under his reign. Later he began to act more appropriately for his position as ruler and there was less resistance against his rule when Khalid died.

The Sudairi Seven vs Crown Prince Abdullah

During his rule King Fahd (who has three wives, eight sons and five daughters) had appointed his six full brothers – dubbed, with Fahd, the "Sudairi Seven" after their mother's clan – to every major post in Saudi government, and today the Sudairi men still hold the lion's share of power. Crown Prince Abdullah, has no full brothers, which makes his position potentially weaker than that of the powerful Sudairi Seven, but enables him to form his own alliances with other half-brothers among the sons of Ibn Saud. Prince Abdullah has four wives, seven sons and 15 daughters.

Since Prince Abdullah's mother was tribal and he himself spent much of his youth in the desert, his loyalty is towards the tribesman and conservatives. The 60 000 strong National Guard, of who he is commander, was originally made up of the finest of the fierce Bedouin warriors who helped Abdullah's father unite the tribes of Arabia. Although he is committed to reform, he has not openly embraced the West and has criticised the Bush administration for their support of Israel. Prince Abdullah, described by Western diplomats as an Arab nationalist, a good Muslim, incorrupt and popular, has attempted to reform the Saudi economy and reduce expenditures on subsidies and perks, including the costly stipends paid monthly to the thousands of royal princes.

Some say Crown Prince Abdullah lacks the authority as acting regent to impose his will on the rest of the royal family. And, even if Prince Abdullah became king, it's not a given that he will have enough broadly based support within the family to move as quickly and dramatically as the reformers want.

The royal family is becoming increasingly divided on the pace and direction of reform. Sudairi brothers Interior Minister Prince Nayef and Defence Minister Prince Sultan are said to oppose quick reforms and have shored up their relations with the Wahhabists in the hope of winning their favour and support for Prince Sultan's appointment as crown prince once King Fahd passes away. And while the family arguably should be united against Al Qaeda, which aims to bring down the House of Saud, rumours persist of royal family, particularly some of the Sudairis, financial support for the organisation.

The glory days are over

For the last 25 years, the royal family has played a dangerous game: living in the lap of Western luxury, while forcing their subjects to follow the strict Wahhabist ideology. This can't last. Wahhabists denounce all of Western modernity and have provided the ideological and financial basis for most of the active Islamic terrorist groups. To pacify them, according to the U.S. Institute for Global Engagement, the House of Saud has pumped billions of dollars into the worldwide Wahhabist movement. But still the Wahhabists have turned on the royal family and proved that the Al Sauds are not upholding their side of the original bargain. In a strategic move to gain power, the Sudairi Seven, or what's left of them, have sided with the group, leaving Abdullah out in the cold.




He's not the only one feeling the chill. Saudi per capita income has fallen from $25,000 in 1980 to $8,000 in 2003. The decline in per-capita income from 1980 to 1999 set a record, being by far the worst such decline suffered by any nation-state in history. The CIA World Factbook ranks Saudi GDP per capita at 73rd in the world (South Africa is 78th).

So while the Saudi princes appropriate most of the oil wealth, the average Saudi citizen grows poorer and poorer. Saudi citizens are well aware of the royal family's hypocrisy. And so they turn to the only ones they can – the religious leaders, who promise more Islam, not less. If present trends continue – an exploding population, a declining educational system, a rotting welfare state – Saudi Arabia will be a poor country in 25 years. Crown Prince Abdullah told the nation in a widely noted 1996 speech: "The era of the oil boom is over."

What will happen now?

Rumours have surfaced among Riyadh's ruling elite that Fahd is clinically dead – but even if this were true, any official announcement would be delayed until a final decision on Fahd's successor has been taken. Right now there is heavy security around the King Faisal hospital in Riyadh and Saudi security sources have said a number of princes from the ruling family have been arriving in the capital. Although unconfirmed, local residents in turn have seen US troops being deployed to Tabuk and have been seen in several other eastern cities; likely in preparation for instability that is sure to arise once King Fahd dies.

The crown doesn't necessarily pass to the eldest of Ibn Saud's sons but to the most "suitable" one, as chosen by the royal family in a secretive selection process. (Royals tend to reject heirs with extreme political views or mothers of low stature.) The chosen heir is given the title of crown prince and holds the position of first deputy prime minister in the king's Cabinet. However, the crown prince would not automatically succeed on the death of the king, but serve as provisional ruler until he, or a descendant of Ibn Saud deemed more suitable, was enthroned.

Simon Henderson, a senior fellow of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and author of After King Fahd: Succession in Saudi Arabia, had this to say in a recent Times Online article:

The death of the monarch is always tense. A three-day period of mourning, with borders and airports closed, was declared the last time it happened in 1982. The decision to treat Fahd in hospital rather than in the medical centres he has in his palaces appeared to be a sign of the seriousness of his condition. The problem this time is that while Fahd was only 61 when he acceded to the throne, Abdullah is 82. The principal contenders to become his crown prince are also elderly. Prince Sultan, the defence minister, is 81; Prince Nayef, the interior minister, is 72; and Prince Salman, the governor of Riyadh, is 69. All are full brothers of Fahd [members of the Sudairi Seven].

Sultan is a focus of particular anxiety among analysts. He would expect to be named crown prince. But cancer was diagnosed last year and after 43 years of authorising lucrative defence contracts he is seen by the people as extravagant.

Washington makes little secret of its preference that Abdullah should be succeeded by a younger and more modern king. The favourite of many western ambassadors is Prince Saud Al Faisal, the foreign minister, but even he is 64 and plagued by a bad back and Parkinson's disease.

When Fahd dies, things are expected to move fast. After King Khalid died in June 1982, he was buried, according to Wahhabi tradition, the same day, in an anonymous grave in the desert outside Riyadh. Fahd was also proclaimed king that day, and promptly appointed Abdullah as his crown prince. Failure to follow such procedures this time would suggest a problem, undermining economic confidence.

One concern is that rivals may use their military forces to press their ambitions [as almost happened when an interim leader had to be chosen after Fahd's stroke in the mid 90s]. Abdullah is commander of the national guard, a 100,000-strong force that is intensely loyal to him. Sultan theoretically controls the army, navy and air force, although few units are in Riyadh because of historical fears of a coup. Nayef's interior ministry forces outnumber those of both the others and include special forces. A 2 000-strong royal guard protecting the king would be a wild card.

Whatever happens, the result is unlikely to be a rapid change in the Saudi political system. Just two weeks ago, three reformers who had argued for a constitutional monarchy and criticised the Wahhabi-influenced educational system were sentenced to between six and nine years in jail for their temerity. Whatever the West wants, the House of Saud will handle succession its own way.

It seems unlikely that, in a decade since Fahd first took ill, they haven't prepared for the moment of King Fahd's death. In all likelihood Abdullah will become king, with Sultan as crown prince, and during their rule one of Ibn Saud's hundreds of grandsons and competing cousins will be groomed to take the role as the next generation's leaders of the House of Saud. That's if their enemies don't bring them down first.

If there's anything in particular you'd like to know about life in Saudi Arabia, or if you'd like to comment on this article, send me an email at [email protected]

Suggested reading:


For an objective view of Saudi Arabia's complex past, present and future, read Saudi Arabia: Country Profile
For a clear analysis of the intricacies of the Al Saud dynasty as rulers of Arabia, read Saudi leadership
And read up on Saudi Arabia's Politics of Reform and Terror

I am sure there are other reason why Prince Saud al Faisal will not be chosen although I have forgotten what they are. I had tea with him once when he
visited the projected where my husband worked. No airs and graces or red carpets , a very nice man.
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Old Jun 3rd 2005, 8:21 pm
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Default Re: Brief history of Saudi

A great post..karma on its way
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Old Jun 4th 2005, 1:47 pm
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Default Re: Brief history of Saudi

Originally Posted by Jammy_Dodgers
A great post..karma on its way
Thanks JD, my karma conquest has begun.
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Old Jun 5th 2005, 4:43 pm
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Default Re: Brief history of Saudi

Just been speaking to some Saudi locals, to be honest, they are not bother who takes the throne. They are convinced that whoever takes over, there will be no immediate change in conditions or policy.

They have said that even when the oil and money runs out there will be little change, and the leaders would rather slip back into economic poverty that to adopt western style trade and commerce.
Unfortunately their values and ideals do not help develop the country.

Contrary to popular belief, most Saudis are poor. They drive around in 15 year old Lincolns and Chevys which look like they have just completed a stock car race.

Considering the vast wealth the country has/had, the infrastructure is very VERY poor, and once you leave any major town, it is all too apparent that it is still mostly a third world country.
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Old Jun 5th 2005, 5:02 pm
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Default Re: Brief history of Saudi

So there isn't going to be a revolution?

Bollocks
 
Old Jun 5th 2005, 6:02 pm
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Default Re: Brief history of Saudi

Originally Posted by Jammy_Dodgers
Just been speaking to some Saudi locals, to be honest, they are not bother who takes the throne. They are convinced that whoever takes over, there will be no immediate change in conditions or policy.

They have said that even when the oil and money runs out there will be little change, and the leaders would rather slip back into economic poverty that to adopt western style trade and commerce.
Unfortunately their values and ideals do not help develop the country.

Contrary to popular belief, most Saudis are poor. They drive around in 15 year old Lincolns and Chevys which look like they have just completed a stock car race.

Considering the vast wealth the country has/had, the infrastructure is very VERY poor, and once you leave any major town, it is all too apparent that it is still mostly a third world country.
To be honest a prospect of a world with no oil and 200 mil or so pissed off Arabs with no food and water is a terrifying one. Recently I read the book called 'Power down' by the bloke called Richard Heinberg, self confessed doom and gloom prophet, and while I am a bit more optimistic than him, he raised some valid points. In his view the whole economic power base of the western world and relative peace in the Middle East is based on oil and cheap energy. Imagine if oil run out today, there would be total chaos. And in my opinion what is even worse is that nobody seems to be too worried.
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Old Jun 5th 2005, 6:09 pm
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Default Re: Brief history of Saudi

No-one is worried because it isn't a short term problem. Oil isn't going to run out tomorrow.
 
Old Jun 5th 2005, 6:16 pm
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Default Re: Brief history of Saudi

Originally Posted by stormer
To be honest a prospect of a world with no oil and 200 mil or so pissed off Arabs with no food and water is a terrifying one. Recently I read the book called 'Power down' by the bloke called Richard Heinberg, self confessed doom and gloom prophet, and while I am a bit more optimistic than him, he raised some valid points. In his view the whole economic power base of the western world and relative peace in the Middle East is based on oil and cheap energy. Imagine if oil run out today, there would be total chaos. And in my opinion what is even worse is that nobody seems to be too worried.
I see nothing but hundreds of Saudi teenagers/young adults just sitting around bored with nothing to do, there parents are used to the state handouts..just for being Saudi's.
With no Cinema's, little or no form of public entertainment its no wonder the youth get disillusionsed and need to find someone to blame, whether it be the Saudi royal family or western values.

Most Saudi's are getting poorer by the month, and in all honesty, I would not be surprised if trouble flaired up again.

Personally, I cant wait for the oil and cash to run out, then ill not have to come here anymore.

Do not get me wrong, I have nothing against Islam, or indeed any religion as long as it promotes peace and tolerance, but i find it hard to believe there will not be major trouble here in Saudi within the next 5-10 years
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Old Jun 5th 2005, 6:20 pm
  #10  
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Default Re: Brief history of Saudi

Originally Posted by W10
No-one is worried because it isn't a short term problem. Oil isn't going to run out tomorrow.
Sure but 20yrs ago they were saying there is about 80 yrs left. But they did not count on the Chinas and Indias rapid energy requirements that are going up 7-8% annually. At that rate they have revised the current known reserves to last 30-50 yrs. That is not a along time. They might start looking for oil elsewhere but the cost of bringing it to the surface will be much higher, some estimates are at $80 to $120 a barrel. Everybody is complaining now when the oil is at $50+, wait till it goes to $120. :scared:
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Old Jun 5th 2005, 6:27 pm
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Default Re: Brief history of Saudi

Originally Posted by stormer
Sure but 20yrs ago they were saying there is about 80 yrs left. But they did not count on the Chinas and Indias rapid energy requirements that are going up 7-8% annually. At that rate they have revised the current known reserves to last 30-50 yrs. That is not a along time. They might start looking for oil elsewhere but the cost of bringing it to the surface will be much higher, some estimates are at $80 to $120 a barrel. Everybody is complaining now when the oil is at $50+, wait till it goes to $120. :scared:
Unless there is a mass conversion to LPG...In which case Qatar will be quids in.

I cannot understand why there is such heavy reliance on ME Oil, there are viable alternatives already, and if you believe the conspiracy theorists, then there is already suppressed technology.

A search on "free energy" in google brings up most of these.

Once the oil is gone, there will be a mass exodus and this place will slip back to the last century
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Old Jun 5th 2005, 6:30 pm
  #12  
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Default Re: Brief history of Saudi

Originally Posted by Jammy_Dodgers
Unless there is a mass conversion to LPG...In which case Qatar will be quids in.

I cannot understand why there is such heavy reliance on ME Oil, there are viable alternatives already, and if you believe the conspiracy theorists, then there is already suppressed technology.

A search on "free energy" in google brings up most of these.

Once the oil is gone, there will be a mass exodus and this place will slip back to the last century
Just guessing.....

The western world will try to deplete the ME of its oil first, before it really starts pumping up its own oil..... World domination in the future?
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Old Jun 5th 2005, 6:33 pm
  #13  
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Default Re: Brief history of Saudi

Originally Posted by Toon
Just guessing.....

The western world will try to deplete the ME of its oil first, before it really starts pumping up its own oil..... World domination in the future?
Would not be surprised, Canada has loads, and the north Sea hasn't run dry just yet.

Not sure if there is exploration going on yet in Alaska..someone said something a while ago.

There are also lots of under developed countries which have yet to be assessed
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Old Jun 5th 2005, 6:35 pm
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Default Re: Brief history of Saudi

Originally Posted by W10
No-one is worried because it isn't a short term problem. Oil isn't going to run out tomorrow.
This isn't entirely true........the saudis have ruined alot of their reserves by pumping excessive oil into the wells to force the oil out. This is ok when controlled. There largest field has been ruined this way and runs out in a handful of years.

The UAE oil will run out in 5ish years....

Thats why everyone, including the Saudis now are turning to Gas.....

Long live alcohol fuelled cars
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Old Jun 5th 2005, 6:36 pm
  #15  
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Default Re: Brief history of Saudi

I agree, however i heard that Abu D has enough oil reserves to pump 200million a month for the next 200 years.

World domination, I'll leave that to my great,great,great,great,great grandchildren.

(and change my name to bush)!!
Originally Posted by Jammy_Dodgers
Would not be surprised, Canada has loads, and the north Sea hasn't run dry just yet.

Not sure if there is exploration going on yet in Alaska..someone said something a while ago.

There are also lots of under developed countries which have yet to be assessed
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