Mcfc123

Hi all I'm new to the site and would like some advice
I have been offered a job over seeing 2 industrial plants in Jeddah the pay is 75000 euros with all utilities housing car medical and possibly flights home.
I know this a good wage but with my wife giving up her career moving 2 very small kids and having a mortgage to pay for at home I thought the job would be worth upto 90000 euro this an opening offer but they have said non negotiable.
So my questions are is it usual for a low offer? On this wage is a saving of 2500 gbp doable per month? Any advice greatly received

Desert Dubliner

Why Euros? Is the offer not in SAR? In any case, throw in a decent 30% performance bonus and the salary is ok. Take care about the rest:

- Compound 3bed house is 140kSAR - 180kSAR per year rovided you can get one! I am in a flat in a compound for one year already trying to get a house. Same like you I have a wife and 2 kids. You will not get one easily for sure. I am pulling waste left right and centre to no avail as yet (some light at the end of tunnel though). You will not land and find compound accommodation. Plan to come w/o family first.
- Any of the kids of school age? - 24kSAR when they are 3-4 and then 40kSAR when they are 5. This is in Conti. If you go to Jeddah prep it is slightly less.
- Transport should be 30kSAR per year minimum.

These are your main costs.

Don't know if you have experience of Middle East but it is quite rewarding for families with small kids. My wife and I got our kids in Bahrain and moved back to Ireland to live the Irish dream while they were still babies. In roughly 12 months I went completely mad and started looking for a position in the Middle East. Two jobs and small kids didn't work for us.

Mcfc123

Thanks for the reply I'm dealing with agency in Germany for the position and that was the offer given. My kids are 3 and 6 months old. I don't have experience in middle east but see it as a great career opportunity just want to maximise my earnings to give my family the best life I can out there! What are the apartments like on the compounds are they small? I was led to believe my company would be able to provide a house did not realise this was the case !!
How do your kids find school in m/e are they doing ok? Heard a few stories the schools aren't the best?

EastWest

How many wives you got?

Desert Dubliner

Apartments in compounds are not great. We are in a 2-bed roughly 80m2 but since we're coming from Ireland we're used to smallish rooms. The memory of the villa we had in Bahrain still looms large though (pun is intended).

You may want to clarify with your company what exactly they are able to provide. Some companies do keep rolling leases in major compounds and normally have houses available for their employees. Clarify with them what they offer and how is it done. This is one of the most difficult things to sort out here so be clear what you are getting and don't assume everything will be ok.

With a kid of 3 you will want to get him started either in Nursery of YE. Schools have waiting lists (there is a waiting list for everything in this country - so irritating). There are two British schools (continental and Jeddah prep & grammar) and normally with a British passport you will have a priority. They will not confirm a space to you until you've done an assessment. For that you need your residence permit and then the family needs residence permit, then they can come. They can come sooner than that on a visit visa but school admission will not happen until they have residence permits. Assessment is two-three hours structured exam of the kids by teachers to make sure they are fit for the year they are applying for.

My boy is almost 4 he is starting YE in September in conti and my girl is 5 she finished last trimester in conti, she will be starting year 1 in sep. Compared to Dublin where she did first two trimesters, conti is more advanced and demanding. I am quite happy with the education she is getting and progress. Certainly they are more strict and competitive than schools back home. Primary education is generally good in top schools. Secondary education is where the quaility is not great and I know kids who complete secondary schols in ME normally struggle at University level. Universities here are useless. But you are far from that worry, and so am I.

For schools best to get in touch the moment you land. Go there and collect applications even before you or family have residence permits. Once you are in the system proceed to amend the application as you get your residence permit and as kids get it. The moment they land arrange assessment. The school will guide you through the process. Conti is better than the JPGS, and more expensive. Take care you will pay:

- SAR700 application fee
- SAR900 assessment
- SAR7000 entrance fee
- SAR 7000 per trimester (for YE)
- SAR 14000 per trimester (for Y1 and upwards)

Make sure it is covered by company as these costs tend to add up very quickly.

www.jpgs.org/ jeddah prep and grammar school
www.continentalschool.com/ British International School of Jeddah

Mcfc123

Cheers you have been great help will double check with company about house! I was looking into conti. Hopefully what you have said about school will put my wife at ease a little.

Bahtatboy

[This is constructive criticism even if at first it doesn't sound like it.]
So because you've got a particular family situation the job should be worth more? Unless you've not written what you intended to say, that's a bad attitude: your family situation (or lifestyle, penchant for fast cars, coke habit or whatever) has no bearing whatsoever on what a job is worth, nor your value to the employer. It does, of course, have a bearing on what you need to earn, but that's your problem not the employer's. If you want to try to get the offer raised (and most things are negotiable even if you're told they're not), go back on the basis of how you exceed their expectations of the role, and what you can bring to it in terms of adding value. Don't bring your needs into it.

And don't believe what the agent says (if there is one). Although he'll be interested in having your salary as high as possible (so that his fee is increased), probably what's more important to him is getting your bum of the seat: then he can send his bill. He won't want to rock the boat by telling the employer that you think you're worth more money, so--if you really think you are--you've first got to work on the agent to make him think you are, and then also persuade him to address this with the employer. The former shouldn't be so hard if its true, the latter could be difficult especially if the agent doesn't have an exclusive arrangement with the employer.

Good luck

Desert Dubliner

No prob. School is good, it may be difficult to get in or get in on time. In any case, it's not a tragedy if a 3 year old misses a few months of school. We took our girl out of school in Dublin and they came over here without having a space secured. What can you do, yani?

I suggest you start preparing your wife and yourself for the culture shock. I am veteran of ME so for me KSA is bearable. My wife had some initial touch with ME in Bahrain (which is still completely different from KSA but at least you get acquainted with the heat, shabby services, ants and roaches). It is normally advisible to work elsewhere in the region before coming to KSA but I understand this is not always possible. In any case prepare for a major shock from the time you land. Airport is crap. You wll stand in 'queue' (more like fight with worlds finest also 'queueing') for an hour at least to get through the immigration. Etc.

Desert Dubliner

This is very true. If he is getting one or two months basic salary for the deal he will rather accept 6kE today then 7kE after two months negotiations during which the deal may fall through.

Mcfc123

Bahtaboy yes you are right I'm not trying to get more money for my family. The calculation I have seen used on the forums say they have under valued the job but when I raised my concerns about the low offer they told me it was non negotiable the agent didn't seem ready to put my argument across to the employer! You are right I know what I deserve for the position and will put my point to the employer when I next speak to them!
The price difference is £10000 per year so I think it's a lot of money to give up for taking the position now.
I can't thank you all enough for the advice my wife went green when I mentioned cockroaches!!!

Bahtatboy

Alive they're disgusting, but fried and on a stick they're not so bad...

Desert Dubliner

I remember when we moved into the house in Bahrain it was emty for a while. They sprayed two days before we got in and there were so many dead roaches all over the house underneath the furniture and behind the kitchen. Still an odd thumb-sized roach emerged occasionally more in the first days to horror of my wife of course.