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How much am I worth in dollars? (not to be taken literally)

How much am I worth in dollars? (not to be taken literally)

Old Jan 11th 2011, 10:34 pm
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Default How much am I worth in dollars? (not to be taken literally)

Hi Everyone,

I am Canadian citizen with 2+ years experience in Software Development for an enterprise level software (IBM's DB2). I have a degree in computer science from University of Toronto ( top school in Canada ). I speak, read, write good English, off course.

I have extensively searched the average salary for western expats at this forum and at Google. But there is a real shortage of *good* information. The actual salary reports that I do come across are perhaps biased since it includes the salaries of low-payed Pakistani's, Indians etc.

Now I know that middle east is no place for software development and R&D but there must be other jobs for IT professionals from Canada/USA.

What would be a decent salary for a guy like me in (Bahrain/KSA/Dubai) in USD? What IT job's are high-payed for westerners?

Any help would be much appreciated.


P.S. I would never move to Middle for anything lower than $100,000 per year.
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Old Jan 12th 2011, 12:34 am
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Default Re: How much am I worth in dollars? (not to be taken literally)

Originally Posted by deelaws View Post

What would be a decent salary for a guy like me in (Bahrain/KSA/Dubai) in USD? What IT job's are high-payed for westerners?
Salary is the least of the baggage though...if you've got family, other things are as important, school fees, housing, all that stuff...

Plus, people in DXB from the sub continent aren't thick people with crap qualifications, they've got masters and phd's, from quality institutions and they work longer hours than you for a lot less money, so you're already taking a dent in the curve trying to compete, added to the fact there is already a glut of Westerners in the area looking for work who don't need to be relocated....

Anyway, good luck and welcome to BE
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Old Jan 12th 2011, 7:18 am
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Default Re: How much am I worth in dollars? (not to be taken literally)

Originally Posted by deelaws View Post
I speak, read, write good English, off course.
Always good to introduce yourself with some humour
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Old Jan 12th 2011, 7:24 am
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Default Re: How much am I worth in dollars? (not to be taken literally)

Originally Posted by Bob View Post
Salary is the least of the baggage though...if you've got family, other things are as important, school fees, housing, all that stuff...

Plus, people in DXB from the sub continent aren't thick people with crap qualifications, they've got masters and phd's, from quality institutions and they work longer hours than you for a lot less money, so you're already taking a dent in the curve trying to compete, added to the fact there is already a glut of Westerners in the area looking for work who don't need to be relocated....

Anyway, good luck and welcome to BE
He's too young for all that family stuff, I'd guess...........
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Old Jan 12th 2011, 9:30 am
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Default Re: How much am I worth in dollars? (not to be taken literally)

Originally Posted by deelaws View Post
Hi Everyone,

I am Canadian citizen with 2+ years experience in Software Development for an enterprise level software (IBM's DB2). I have a degree in computer science from University of Toronto ( top school in Canada ). I speak, read, write good English, off course.

I have extensively searched the average salary for western expats at this forum and at Google. But there is a real shortage of *good* information. The actual salary reports that I do come across are perhaps biased since it includes the salaries of low-payed Pakistani's, Indians etc.

Now I know that middle east is no place for software development and R&D but there must be other jobs for IT professionals from Canada/USA.

What would be a decent salary for a guy like me in (Bahrain/KSA/Dubai) in USD? What IT job's are high-payed for westerners?

Any help would be much appreciated.


P.S. I would never move to Middle for anything lower than $100,000 per year.
But just not in this post, eh?
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Old Jan 12th 2011, 1:53 pm
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Default Re: How much am I worth in dollars? (not to be taken literally)

Originally Posted by deelaws View Post

What would be a decent salary for a guy like me in (Bahrain/KSA/Dubai) in USD?
I would pay you $1 - if you do not know how much you are worth then it is difficult for someone to pay you over the odds

Some people would consider $100k to be an indecent amount.
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Old Jan 12th 2011, 2:55 pm
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Default Re: How much am I worth in dollars? (not to be taken literally)

Originally Posted by Meow View Post
But just not in this post, eh?
he was probably distracted by thinking about all the cool stuff he could buy if he got payed (sic!) $100K....
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Old Jan 12th 2011, 4:38 pm
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Default Re: How much am I worth in dollars? (not to be taken literally)

I guess you guys must have figured out by now that I am single ( hence the recent grad news ). Anyways, in Canada, US, average starting salary for comp sci grad is roughly 70K. Microsoft and Google pay 80K plus starting! So when I say 100K in KSA, it would be considered an indecent salary if one had to relocate to a desert (not literally ). But just out of curiosity, is 150K an average salary for North Americans in Middle east? I've been under impression that that is the norm but after search on BE, it seems like they pay much lower than that. What do you guys think? Whats a rough median for Engineer's/Computer techies from the west?

Plus, people in DXB from the sub continent aren't thick people with crap qualifications, they've got masters and phd's, from quality institutions and they work longer hours than you for a lot less money, so you're already taking a dent in the curve trying to compete, added to the fact there is already a glut of Westerners in the area looking for work who don't need to be relocated....
Really? You can't make that comparison. All the high end software is actually developed in North America/Europe. I've worked at IBM and I know first hand that the people from India lack some really important skill's i.e COMMUNICATION, and no, its not the language barrier.
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Old Jan 12th 2011, 6:00 pm
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Default Re: How much am I worth in dollars? (not to be taken literally)

Originally Posted by deelaws View Post
Really? You can't make that comparison. All the high end software is actually developed in North America/Europe. I've worked at IBM and I know first hand that the people from India lack some really important skill's i.e COMMUNICATION, and no, its not the language barrier.
I think you'll find that Indians are doing a fair chunk of all the technical development work across the world, not just in the Middle East. Every major company I know in UK/US have a number of outsourcing companies onboard who do a lot of the development for them. And where are most of the big outsourcing companies from (TCS, Patni, Infosys, Wipro, and so on)?

The point is that unless you are senior IT person (ie you can lead the team, project manage, or be a section/department manager) then you are competing with loads of Indians and Arabs who have the same skills as you, but who are willing to work harder and to top it off will ask for less salary.

As you state you are a recent graduate with only 2 years experience you are not senior, and unless you check your attitude you are unlikely to ever become one..Sorry dude! The truth hurts!
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Old Jan 12th 2011, 10:58 pm
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Default Re: How much am I worth in dollars? (not to be taken literally)

Originally Posted by deelaws View Post
I guess you guys must have figured out by now that I am single ( hence the recent grad news ). Anyways, in Canada, US, average starting salary for comp sci grad is roughly 70K. Microsoft and Google pay 80K plus starting!
These days, less likely though except for a few regions....larger places are snagging people as contractors, so they in real terms are earning far less because they aren't getting the 401K, bonuses, holiday or anything else a full timer gets.

Sure, new grads can be on that money, but they're usually shit hot, with top end degrees.

Getting relocated though, you've got to be more than that, you've got to have proper experience, 5 plus at the minimum, unless you've got real niche skills.

Under estimating the sub continent at your own risk, because bods on seats don't need to communicate, they just need to fill lines of code, it's the senior project managers who need to communicate and you ain't one of those.
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Old Jan 13th 2011, 5:18 am
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Default Re: How much am I worth in dollars? (not to be taken literally)

Originally Posted by Bob View Post
it's the senior project managers who need to communicate and you ain't one of those.
On two levels.
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Old Jan 13th 2011, 5:48 am
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Default Re: How much am I worth in dollars? (not to be taken literally)

It's unlikely you will make more money in Dubai for the same position as you would in Canada. The difference is that your salary out here would be tax free. Automatic 30-40% pay raise.

But life is very expensive out here, off (sic) course.

Originally Posted by deelaws View Post
Hi Everyone,

I am Canadian citizen with 2+ years experience in Software Development for an enterprise level software (IBM's DB2). I have a degree in computer science from University of Toronto ( top school in Canada ). I speak, read, write good English, off course.
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Old Jan 13th 2011, 10:55 am
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Default Re: How much am I worth in dollars? (not to be taken literally)

Originally Posted by deelaws View Post
P.S. I would never move to Middle for anything lower than $100,000 per year.
Why would I pay a 'westerner' $100,000 when your spelling is awful and you have 2 years exp and a strange attitude of entitlement?

Why wouldnt I pay a Philippino with a MSc and 15 years exp. 5,000Dh a month to run rings around you? Figuratively and literally?
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Old Jan 13th 2011, 11:14 am
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Default Re: How much am I worth in dollars? (not to be taken literally)

Originally Posted by spart View Post
Why would I pay a 'westerner' $100,000 when your spelling is awful and you have 2 years exp and a strange attitude of entitlement?

Why wouldnt I pay a Philippino with a MSc and 15 years exp. 5,000Dh a month to run rings around you? Figuratively and literally?
... and to add the final nail to this thread:

Why would you pay a westerner 100k to sit in Saudi when you can pay him 70k to sit in the US. Better still, pay an Indian 30k and leave him in Chennai.

Software development can be done anywhere... salaries in that industry can only go down over time.
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Old Jan 13th 2011, 1:44 pm
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Default Re: How much am I worth in dollars? (not to be taken literally)

Originally Posted by deelaws View Post
Hi Everyone,

I am Canadian citizen with 2+ years experience in Software Development for an enterprise level software (IBM's DB2). I have a degree in computer science from University of Toronto ( top school in Canada ). I speak, read, write good English, off course.

I have extensively searched the average salary for western expats at this forum and at Google. But there is a real shortage of *good* information. The actual salary reports that I do come across are perhaps biased since it includes the salaries of low-payed Pakistani's, Indians etc.

Now I know that middle east is no place for software development and R&D but there must be other jobs for IT professionals from Canada/USA.

What would be a decent salary for a guy like me in (Bahrain/KSA/Dubai) in USD? What IT job's are high-payed for westerners?

Any help would be much appreciated.


P.S. I would never move to Middle for anything lower than $100,000 per year.
Are you doing software development, i.e., writing code in a non-sql language? Or are you predominately writing SQL?

I'm interested in the responses you're going to get.
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