Fezoo

Hello everyone.

I am close to being offered a job as a qualified in-house lawyer with a company based in Dubai Airport Free Zone. They are structuring their offer as a "local" package rather than an "expat" one, even though they want a UK-qualified lawyer (presumably to reflect these post-bubble times). I have 12 years' experience and earn about 80,000 gross GBP in the UK, and I live comfortably but definitely not lavishly. I have family: wife, 3 kids (two of them primary school age).

They are looking to offer 150,000 USD per year (paid locally in AED, so that's 550,000 AED per year or 45,000 AED per month). They would cover medical for family and relocation costs. However, they would expect me to cover schooling, housing, and all other living costs. No flights home (apart from at the end!).

In terms of what I'm looking to get for the money:

Housing: 4 bed villa in a half-decent inland community (Greens Community, Arabian ranches etc. - I think places like JBR are out of financial reach)
Schooling: two 9 years olds at a reasonable British curriculum school (but doesn't have to be very top end)
Cars: two medium sized; one for me to do a park and ride with the Metro and one for the Mrs to do the school run etc.
Lifestyle: comfortable, not lavish; eat out once a week, after-school club for kids.

Motivation for move: not enjoying job in UK, looking for change of scene (have visited Dubai several times); new life experience for kids (and me!). However definitely want to avoid being tight with money and want to be comfortable. Some savings would be a bonus.

Have done some quick sums (using the annual AED amount) and if I take off 200,000 AED per year for housing and another 100,000 AED for school fees for 2 kids, that leaves me with 250,000 AED per year (or 20,000 AED per month) for groceries, cars, utilities, entertainment etc.

All comments are very gratefully received! Thanks.

Patsy Stoned

It sounds ok to me.. I don't know about the schooling side and it will also depend on how old your 3rd child is for when she/he starts school.

Have a look at The Villas complex, there are some lovely villas there and you can get 4/5 bedroom villas with pool for around 150kdhs a year..it is easy to get to your work place from there and there are schools around..don't forget that you need to pay rent up front, 2/3/4 cheques are normal now.
Then you have agent fees, deposit, dewa deposit, 5% housing fee and set up costs.
I would push for family flights home once a year, but it sounds a good deal.

Why do you think JBR is out of your range???? Also I am sure some of the others will be able to guide you to other places to look at. It depends what you want and which schools you can get into..I think you need to find the school 1st and then look where to live. A friend of mine travels 120km a day doing school pick up for 3 children in 3 different schools!!
Look on dubizzle for cars too.
Good luck and welcome to the bored.

Ethos83

The offered package is ok...not brilliant but ok. You can survive on it but you won't be putting aside much at the end of the year. Dubai is very expensive for everyday living, especially if you have children and want to maintain a typical Western lifestyle.

Your biggest expense is housing and the more you save from your projected 200k budget for housing, the better off you will be. A three bed apartment in JBR will be cheaper than a three bed villa in the Ranches. I think they go for around 130k, and the utilities are far cheaper for flats than for villas. JBR flats aren't the nicest in the Marina but they are very roomy and quite popular.

If you must have a villa, communities such as Victory Heights may be cheaper while still being quite nice. Mirdiff is another popular expat community and it's just 10 minutes from DAFZA, although it isn't as nice or desirable as the areas out in New Dubai, but rents are more reasonable and you can probably find a roomy compound villa for around 100k.

You will not be taking the metro to DAFZA. The metro really isn't handy for most western expats in Dubai, and the stop is a good 15 minute walk from DAFZA, and that doesn't factor in the hour long journey from, say, the Marina. Driving will be half a hour. So you must budget for two cars.

Will your wife work? If she can find a teaching or school related position that pays 10k a month, that will cover the school fees and probably a holiday somewhere too, which does make your financial position in Dubai much more secure.

The general consensus on this board has been that 40k per month, which includes schooling and housing, is just about the minimum that a western family with school-aged kids in Dubai requires to maintain a decent lifestyle. If you can increase your household income to 50k, you're much better positioned.

One bit of advice that I tell all newcomers to Dubai - rent a flat for your first year. Dubai is very expensive and the expenses will manifest itself in ways you won't expect. The savings from living in a cheaper flat will allow you to weather the the first year, as well as give you time to know the city and decide where you ultimately want to live and can easily afford.

One q for you - is this move immediate? The school year will be starting in Dubai soon ( my teacher friends are returning next week) and its very difficult to find school places.

Fezoo

Hi. Thanks to you and Patsy Stoned for your replies, much appreciated!!

Thanks to both of you for the tips on housing, I do see the sense in easing myself in with a flat or a cheaper villa: I don't want to dive in and get caught out. So it looks like I can certainly make a substantial saving on my initial housing budget. Also thanks for the pointer on the Metro - nothing like a bit of inside knowledge! I just thought that public transport would be quicker than sitting in Dubai's notorious traffic, but I would budget for 2 cars anyway.

My wife may work, but we don't want to have to rely on that, although it seems that £45k AED per month is reasonable from what you say.

As to schools, you've hit on the main thing that is concerning my wife and I. To answer your question, the company would want me to go out there asap from mid-Sept, certainly by end of Oct. I know we must have missed the school enrolment for Sept 2011 (for good schools). My plan was to go out there alone first for a few months and check everything out / settle in (e.g. get a place for us to live set up, orientate myself, and make sure I enjoy the job!). I would then bring my family out there in, say, the new year, try to get the kids into a less popular but reasonable school with places (they are going into Year 5) but already have them on waiting lists for better schools for Sept 2012 admission. (My 3rd child is 6 months old so no worries there).

The scary scenario for me is no British school places anywhere until Sept 2012 (or later!!!!) and so me living away from family for 12 months or more (and spending loads on flights back and forth). Recommendations for schools given my scenario or contact with relevant people on this forum or outside it would be a godsend!! Thanks.

Patsy Stoned

I don't think finding a place in 1 of the schools will be a problem. Somebody will know, it is the last day of Ramadan here and Eid starts tomorrow so I am guessing a lot of people are away.
Wise choice, coming out 1st and finding your way around. The traffic is not bad anymore, very rarely are there traffic jams, except from Sharjah to Dubai in the rush hour

NorthernLad

Schooling is not always as bad as it may seem. Maybe not so much now, but in the past after summer people sometimes don't return and schools have free places. I have a colleague who moved over 3 months ago, initially they tried to get their kids into Wellington and were told 30 other kids on the list. Two weeks later they got called to say places were available.

As said by others, you should be able to manage on that package - maybe not having his and hers Mercedes but should still be OK. Flights home can be a pricey depending on time of year so maybe push for that to be included.
The plus point is if you stick it out a few years your basic is not bad for the gratuity (a lot of packages reduce basic salaries and top up with benefits to reduce end of service gratuity).

Millhouse

I somehow suspect you will be financially worse off than you would be in the UK.

If that isn't a problem, then go for it. The salary is OK and you will survive, but with 2 sets of school fees, 2 cars to run, a mid size house and 3 kids to entertain you will save little. I don't think you will have much of a buffer.

I pay for everything but only one set of school fees (for a 4 year old). Excluding housing (but including two cars, utilities and a maid) I spend around 18-20k AED / month. Apart from the high class hookers and champagne baths my life isn't lavish.

Like others have said - try and push for 50k or even 48k. It will help.

lehoff

I would concur with Millhouse, push for closer to 50k and you will make things a little more comfortable. Remember that flights are more expensive when booked in Dubai than the same one booked in the uk, I happily accepted my flight allowance for the family thinking that would just about cover it and then realised that when you book Emirates here it costs about 60% more. Yes you can fly via Germany or wherever to save money but do you want to drag your kids through unnecesary changes. Also you can consider developments like DSO, Mirdiff, The Villa as i think others mention to lower your housing costs, they are close to good schooling although they may not quite have the finished services of other communities in some cases.

Bear in mind that if you came out here on an ex pat package then a direct interpretation of your current earnings would be something in the region of -

Basic = 80k * 6 = AED480k
Housing = say AED170k
Car = Say AED40k
Flights for Family = Say AED15k

Thats over AED700k before you add in any schooling allowance.

I know this isnt what you are being offered but it does still exist out here and so perhaps use it as justification for pushing for that 50k per month. In my experience someone good from the UK who is working for a decent firm and is up to speed with current practices brings more to a firm out here than an ex pat who has been out here for some time and has lost touch a little, this is probably why they want you rather than recruiting locally.

crw1979

You might find the following of use-

http://www.charterhouseme.ae/pdf/Leg...Survey2011.pdf

There tends to be quite a large disparity between in-house and private practice as demostrated by the linked survey. If the salary you are being offered is for a general counsel role, I would suggest that it is on the low end, if it is for a senior legal counsel role, it would appear to marry up with the Charterhouse survey.

Hope this helps, please feel free to message me if you need any further guidance. For my sins I am a private practice solicitor!


Kind regards

Chris

UKCityGent

I still dont understand why they want to be cheapskates and offer you a local contract vs expat ? How much is the difference between local vs expat ?

Another alternative is that you could leave the family in UK and live as a bachelor - smaller apartment, smaller bills and larger savings

Meow

Unlikely to be any savings at all from next tax year if the anticipated changes take place, as he'd then be subject to UK income tax.

lehoff

Meow, what are the proposals in brief? I keep hearing talk of much reduced visiting days but can't find hard evidence of that anywhere.

Meow

Er, please or thanks??


It is purely a consultation document (as published by HMRC and available on-line for free - all 40 pages of it) and it isn't just about visiting days. If you retain a home in the UK to which you have access and your family resides there, chances are you will be deemed resident, especially if your earnings are largly remitted to the UK. There are also proposed distinctions between leavers and arrivers. The number of days permitted in the UK, may depend on time spent in the UK in previous years, but for long-term non-residents is proposed to be 45 days and less for those who have just left.

The proposal is that the more time you spend in the UK, the less links you have to have ('factors' such as family, accommodation) to retain non-residency. I am sure this will become law in some way, but there are likely to be quite a few changes from the consultation document. Either way, those who work in the Middle East, have family and property in the UK, and travel back and forth several times a year have a high chance of losing their non-resident for tax purposes status.

We should know the outcome in the first few months of 2012, probably around the time of the Finance Bill.

lehoff

Ta very much

The Dean

And to think that a Tory administration is going to force this through? Oh wait...... ah yes - it must be Clegg and Cable........................