martinbkk

Knowing there are a few who frequent this web board that either work in the hiring sector or whose work includes hiring and the practices thereof I am curious to learn what impact and to what extent ATS plays a part in the process. Though I haven't been particularly active in searching a new position I'm getting a little restless and would like to find another ME opportunity but I feel my biggest hurdle is the ATS. Notwithstanding the fact that a growing number of the positions in my field these days seem targeted to either South Asian or Far Eastern applicants both in terms of apparent requirements and likely salaries there are companies who would seem to value applications from those who have real world experience and can actually do the job rather than just hide it and are prepared to pay for the benefit of that capability.

So with regard to the ATS are there any specific processes or methods that I can use to better understand how I can adjust my applications to be more realistically judged? I am thinking of things like keyword generators or extractors.

Are ATS replacing all first line resume inspections by qualified individuals?

As an aside I would be interested to hear of a recruitment professional who can work to help me locate a position knowing they are paid by the hiring company rather than those who would seek to have me pay them to do the same thing, maybe.

Thanks

reddiva

All recruiters are paid for by companies. Only the dodgy ones would ask a candidate to pay ( The latter i would never entertain) Recruiters do not work for candidates as they are not employment agencies, they work for clients therefore, prior to contacting you have to have a suitable role. I rarely use ATS as i have a vast network and people whose brains i pick.
The job market is seriously down, salaries and benefits have remained stagnant or dropped and many companies are hiring directly rather than using agencies in saying that though some sectors are buoyant but companies are now very very picky and only want people only from competitors. My clients send me long lists of guys and companies to poach from
What industry are you in?

martinbkk

Thank you for the useful comments, very much appreciated. If you don't mind I will just send you some details by pm.
Hiring people from competitors was always a bit of a no-no, most of my contracts had non-compete clauses in them so you had to take a 6 month break or do something different. More than that a lot of what I do is very much transferable across industries, though it seems many are unable to see that. I'm guessing because those who are charged with making the decisions are themselves not well versed in what they are looking at coupled with being generally risk averse. Then again it may just be that I am blinded by being so close that I have not been able to properly phrase details about myself that would bypass what I perceive as ATS limitations. So far as salaries go, above a certain level it's really not that important ,to me at least, I'd happily work for half, or even less, that what I was paid on my last contract.

Concerning payment, I wasn't thinking of recruiters, I've never known any, rather websites that encourage you to move from their free to paid services suggesting you have improved chances by doing so. It seems hard to take such websites seriously, and yet a lot appear to be much the same. I think even LinkedIn falls into this category.

Millhouse

Able to give any insights by how much? in % terms?

I'm being told that salaries for C/director level+ jobs have dropped by around 33%.

I'm facing a 15-20% cut in September as I lose my entitlement to a housing allowance as am now part of the furniture - not happy but it'll be OK, will just delay the exit by a year really.

weasel decentral

Without dancing around the subject, it sounds like you are hinting at something other than your CV falling through the net due a simple key word search. Are you potentially perceived as too old, or some other discriminatory reason that you think is being applied?

weasel decentral

A proper contractor would pass that cut on to his subcontractors or in this case your landlord Don't let the loss crystallise with you!

Millhouse

Certainly trying!

reddiva

Yep i have seen them drop by at least 25%, school fees have been slashed by 20% as have housing allowances
Some companies want people from competitors and are then offering them less than what they are currently earning!!!!
We still get the odd candidate who expect 50% pay rises to change jobs ( That is not happening)

scrubbedexpat141

We're in the processing of implementing an ATS and it's truly hateful. Fortunately, the candidate experience on ours will be good because we've put almost 2yrs of development into it....the drop out rate for an off the shelf version of the one we're getting is over 60% of candidates not completing an application....probably down to the fact they're ****ing hateful.

Keywords in your CV help you appear in more searches, definitely.
Refining applications by keywords is another way some will search through 00's / 000's of applications.
Last year we had, just for international jobs posted, almost 30,000 applications. Hiring rate from that source was something like 0.04%.
Your best bet is to network into a company, find someone you know and speak to them, get them to introduce you.
Contact their HR / Recruitment team directly or go via someone senior if you can, they're then generally duty bound to speak to you (well, I feel I am in those situations).
Also, and please don't take this the wrong way, the amount of times someone thinks they're perfect for a job and genuinely are is a very small number. You might tick a lot of boxes on paper but come in over budget, or aren't what the client wants (nationality etc). You might be very good for a position and meet 98 of the 100 criteria but don't tick two boxes that are the only two things that are absolute musts for approvals or whatever.
It's hard when job hunting, I've had a look around recently and the lack of degree precludes me from so many positions that I'd probably be quite good for.
Build the keywords in your CV, but try to do it genuinely, make sure your CV is easily digestible in 5-8 seconds because that's all I generally give a CV.
Make sure your profile on Gulf Talent etc is updated and you log in weekly, to remain near the top. Make sure your Linkedin is detailed, keywords again are important.
Speak to a couple of recruiters in your industry, see what they think or say about opportunities.
Network like a mother-fudger.

It's one of those things, sometimes trying to stand out in a crowd of applicants over 500 strong is very tough, but do these things and you'll create the opportunity, you'll be visible, memorable and on the top of people's minds for when they have something come up.

Couldn't tell you the last offer for Dubai that was more than 3-4% over what someone is currently earning.
We're starting at less than or equal to current.

reddiva

Age also plays a huge factor. A lot of my clients will not consider anyone over 45 now!!! and their preference is 32-38 years old with a degree

scrubbedexpat141

Yep, we often want to find that similar sort of age range but then can also be asked to go and find a proper grey-haired type who's been there and done it for 30+ years.

Millhouse

scrubbedexpat141

For us: lower salary, less likely to come with kids and the extra CTE stuff that entails, greater propensity to (try and) excel and not be jaded, likely to stay longer, potentially more flexible on location if single or just married status, less arrogant or more able to see and understand their own skill level (whichever way you want to put).

Lots of positives, equally lots of negatives but that's obvious.

reddiva

What he said ^^^^^