ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES
Jun 10th 2009, 3:39 pm
#31
Banned
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 151
Re: ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES
Everything EXALOR has said is correct except for a certain person not visiting UAE as he was here yesterday. There is more to add but I'm thinking about whether to post it or not! The management of the whole project has been a total disaster from start to finish and I feel sure that Laing O'Rourke will not work in UAE again. They have been lucky to get away with the things they have done and got away with so far. They are wasting their time putting bids in for other work in AD but I suppose it still keeps the directors in post and gives them a bit more time to calculate their bonus amounts - soon to be declared. I know a lot of people who would love to see certain directors in the Dish Dash Hilton and be given the appropriate treatment - cattle prods and fingers come to mind! We can live in hope
ALOR (Aldar Laing O'Rourke JV) and LOR are seperate buisnesses of course.
I dont think you're right in saying LOR (based in Dubai) won't work in the UAE again, because they are currently working in the UAE.
Are you actually saying that the ALOR JV won't move forward on other projects in the region again.
Jun 10th 2009, 3:57 pm
#32
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Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Abu Dhabi
Posts: 1,633
Re: ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES
ALOR (Aldar Laing O'Rourke JV) and LOR are seperate buisnesses of course.
I dont think you're right in saying LOR (based in Dubai) won't work in the UAE again, because they are currently working in the UAE.
Are you actually saying that the ALOR JV won't move forward on other projects in the region again.
I dont think you're right in saying LOR (based in Dubai) won't work in the UAE again, because they are currently working in the UAE.
Are you actually saying that the ALOR JV won't move forward on other projects in the region again.
Jun 10th 2009, 6:47 pm
#33
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,869
Re: Beware of Laing O'Rourke
I don't condone any breach of the relevant laws.
Jun 11th 2009, 1:16 am
#34
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 12
Re: Beware of Laing O'Rourke
I hope the OP has got his facts straight.
I work in AD on a nearby project and of course know of ALOR. You're talking about a business that employs thousands of people. There's a lot at steak here.
Your post is also verging on being slanderous., especially with you mentioning certain individuals.
I work in AD on a nearby project and of course know of ALOR. You're talking about a business that employs thousands of people. There's a lot at steak here.
Your post is also verging on being slanderous., especially with you mentioning certain individuals.
Facts are facts and rumours are rumours.
The accounting /budget goings on are fact. Within the overall Al raha project there are many smaller projects each having their own separate contract and budget. The budgets quoted by ALOR were deliberately low so that they could get the contracts approved and signed by the ALDAR chairman. The idea was that the contracts were on the NEC terms and conditions and if the budget was exceeded they could go back and ask for more (in theory). The way NEC works is that as soon as they knew there would be overspend they are supposed to put a document together to explain why and then get this authorised by Aldar to increase the budget.
Problem was that no-one really knew how to operate the NEC contracts (not even ALDAR !!) and so ALOR proceeded merrily on until the budget ran out blindly under the impression that they will get paid for what they spend plus their % on top. This was back in mid 2008 by the way. However, when ALOR applied for payments that exceeded the approved budget ALDAR quite rightly refused to pay and only paid up to the budget amount.
So what ALOR did to keep the over-spent projects going was to "borrow" budget from other contracts that had just started and still had lots of budget left. This went on and on until the recession started to kick-in and there were suddenly not enough new projects to "feed" the over-spent ones. This meant that some projects had consumed almost all their budget but not even half the work had been carried out.
This was all done not just with the knowledge of the senior management but under the specific "instruction" of the senior management.
When there was no more budget left they had to start trying to operate NEC and ALDAR were suddenly inundated with revised budget forecasts for approval which increased budgets (more than doubled on some jobs) but with no real justification other than it is costing more than expected!! When ALDAR received these this is when the **** hit the fan.
Non of the proposed budget increases were approved and the overall project gradually started to grind to a halt. People started getting sacked and the rest is history.
ALDAR instructed that all new projects (instead of being "given" to ALOR) would go out to open competitive tender with the other big contractors allowed to bid for work that was previously given to ALOR.
ALOR had brought out thousands of staff in anticipation of getting all the new projects to the new increased budgets. When this did not happen this is why they suddenly had to sack hundreds of staff. People had given up good jobs in the UK and elsewhere for the promise of 10 years in the sun tax free. They brought their families...some of the spouses had also given up good jobs and kids were settled into new schools. Many people had bought cars etc. But because of ALOR catastropic mangement decisions peoples lives were put in complete turmoil.
The individuals responsible should not only be named but should be locked up.
Jun 11th 2009, 3:09 am
#36
Banned
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 151
Re: Beware of Laing O'Rourke
You mean slanderous or scandalous ?
Facts are facts and rumours are rumours.
The accounting /budget goings on are fact. Within the overall Al raha project there are many smaller projects each having their own separate contract and budget. The budgets quoted by ALOR were deliberately low so that they could get the contracts approved and signed by the ALDAR chairman. The idea was that the contracts were on the NEC terms and conditions and if the budget was exceeded they could go back and ask for more (in theory). The way NEC works is that as soon as they knew there would be overspend they are supposed to put a document together to explain why and then get this authorised by Aldar to increase the budget.
Problem was that no-one really knew how to operate the NEC contracts (not even ALDAR !!) and so ALOR proceeded merrily on until the budget ran out blindly under the impression that they will get paid for what they spend plus their % on top. This was back in mid 2008 by the way. However, when ALOR applied for payments that exceeded the approved budget ALDAR quite rightly refused to pay and only paid up to the budget amount.
So what ALOR did to keep the over-spent projects going was to "borrow" budget from other contracts that had just started and still had lots of budget left. This went on and on until the recession started to kick-in and there were suddenly not enough new projects to "feed" the over-spent ones. This meant that some projects had consumed almost all their budget but not even half the work had been carried out.
This was all done not just with the knowledge of the senior management but under the specific "instruction" of the senior management.
When there was no more budget left they had to start trying to operate NEC and ALDAR were suddenly inundated with revised budget forecasts for approval which increased budgets (more than doubled on some jobs) but with no real justification other than it is costing more than expected!! When ALDAR received these this is when the **** hit the fan.
Non of the proposed budget increases were approved and the overall project gradually started to grind to a halt. People started getting sacked and the rest is history.
ALDAR instructed that all new projects (instead of being "given" to ALOR) would go out to open competitive tender with the other big contractors allowed to bid for work that was previously given to ALOR.
ALOR had brought out thousands of staff in anticipation of getting all the new projects to the new increased budgets. When this did not happen this is why they suddenly had to sack hundreds of staff. People had given up good jobs in the UK and elsewhere for the promise of 10 years in the sun tax free. They brought their families...some of the spouses had also given up good jobs and kids were settled into new schools. Many people had bought cars etc. But because of ALOR catastropic mangement decisions peoples lives were put in complete turmoil.
The individuals responsible should not only be named but should be locked up.
Facts are facts and rumours are rumours.
The accounting /budget goings on are fact. Within the overall Al raha project there are many smaller projects each having their own separate contract and budget. The budgets quoted by ALOR were deliberately low so that they could get the contracts approved and signed by the ALDAR chairman. The idea was that the contracts were on the NEC terms and conditions and if the budget was exceeded they could go back and ask for more (in theory). The way NEC works is that as soon as they knew there would be overspend they are supposed to put a document together to explain why and then get this authorised by Aldar to increase the budget.
Problem was that no-one really knew how to operate the NEC contracts (not even ALDAR !!) and so ALOR proceeded merrily on until the budget ran out blindly under the impression that they will get paid for what they spend plus their % on top. This was back in mid 2008 by the way. However, when ALOR applied for payments that exceeded the approved budget ALDAR quite rightly refused to pay and only paid up to the budget amount.
So what ALOR did to keep the over-spent projects going was to "borrow" budget from other contracts that had just started and still had lots of budget left. This went on and on until the recession started to kick-in and there were suddenly not enough new projects to "feed" the over-spent ones. This meant that some projects had consumed almost all their budget but not even half the work had been carried out.
This was all done not just with the knowledge of the senior management but under the specific "instruction" of the senior management.
When there was no more budget left they had to start trying to operate NEC and ALDAR were suddenly inundated with revised budget forecasts for approval which increased budgets (more than doubled on some jobs) but with no real justification other than it is costing more than expected!! When ALDAR received these this is when the **** hit the fan.
Non of the proposed budget increases were approved and the overall project gradually started to grind to a halt. People started getting sacked and the rest is history.
ALDAR instructed that all new projects (instead of being "given" to ALOR) would go out to open competitive tender with the other big contractors allowed to bid for work that was previously given to ALOR.
ALOR had brought out thousands of staff in anticipation of getting all the new projects to the new increased budgets. When this did not happen this is why they suddenly had to sack hundreds of staff. People had given up good jobs in the UK and elsewhere for the promise of 10 years in the sun tax free. They brought their families...some of the spouses had also given up good jobs and kids were settled into new schools. Many people had bought cars etc. But because of ALOR catastropic mangement decisions peoples lives were put in complete turmoil.
The individuals responsible should not only be named but should be locked up.
ALOR JV has to be made up of people from both Aldar and LOR including senior management - surely?. So you're suggesting that Aldar were ripping off Aldar, which sounds bizzare to me.
I dont understand what you're saying about ALOR not getting any new projects. If they are the Main Contractor, other companies will of course come in and bid for certain packages as subcontractors - isnt this how the whole of the construction industry works?
I'm not neccesarily sticking up for ALOR as I dont know the facts. I just find your accusations beyond belief and totally questionable.
Jun 11th 2009, 5:38 am
#38
Banned
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 12
Re: Beware of Laing O'Rourke
ALOR JV has to be made up of people from both Aldar and LOR including senior management - surely?. So you're suggesting that Aldar were ripping off Aldar, which sounds bizzare to me.
I dont understand what you're saying about ALOR not getting any new projects. If they are the Main Contractor, other companies will of course come in and bid for certain packages as subcontractors - isnt this how the whole of the construction industry works?
I'm not neccesarily sticking up for ALOR as I dont know the facts. I just find your accusations beyond belief and totally questionable.
I dont understand what you're saying about ALOR not getting any new projects. If they are the Main Contractor, other companies will of course come in and bid for certain packages as subcontractors - isnt this how the whole of the construction industry works?
I'm not neccesarily sticking up for ALOR as I dont know the facts. I just find your accusations beyond belief and totally questionable.
ALOR was a JV between ALDAR and Laing O'Rourke but in effect comprised of just Laing O'Rourke staff. ALOR was split into two ...the Project Management Services (PMS) and the delivery section. The PMS role was to get the projects designed and ready for construction. The delivery section would then construct to a budget agreed with ALDAR. There was no outside competitive tendering. ALOR (delivery) got all the work !!
This worked ok in the early days.
Then when ALDAR found out that ALOR were going to cost much more than the agreed budget they decided not to automatically give the work to ALOR and insisted that it sent to open tender (as is normally is...as you say).
What I have said on this forum is common knowledge to most employees working with Laing O'Rourke on Al-Raha Beach.
I can undersand that it is beyond belief to an outsider but that is the way it was. A complete and utter mess.
Jun 11th 2009, 6:58 am
#39
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Posts: 7,028
Re: Beware of Laing O'Rourke
Jun 11th 2009, 11:16 am
#41
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Joined: Jan 2008
Location: The Dust Bowl - Abu Dhabi
Posts: 1,219
Re: ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES
I believe this was for a contract to supply electrical cables. Aldar was being treated as a cash cow. In the beginning when the economics were good Aldar wanted everything completed as fast as possible and to heck with the cost. That is why complacency set in the way Laing O'Rourke ran their business. The subcontractors and suppliers were well aware of this and of course tried to rip off Laing O'Rourke and then LOR ripped off Aldar. Only when Aldar started asking for re-tenders did they start to realise the extent to which they had been ripped off.
The cable agreement was transparent and everything was agreed and disclosed to Aldar a far as I am aware, this does not however mean that I am supporting LOR and the treatment of the staff (me included), FWIW I truly think that EXALOR has well and truly 'hit the nail on the head'!
Read into that what you want !
Last edited by Karlos The Jackal; Jun 11th 2009 at 11:32 am. Reason: Added info
Jun 11th 2009, 11:41 am
#42
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,611
Re: ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES
It was not the cable deal, I was involved in that deal, very late in the day (it was almost agreed the week i joined) and I did express my concerns about who was awarded the contract but it was deemed the most appropriate and viable deal at the time.
The cable agreement was transparent and everything was agreed and disclosed to Aldar a far as I am aware, this does not however mean that I am supporting LOR and the treatment of the staff (me included), FWIW I truly think that EXALOR has well and truly 'hit the nail on the head'!
Read into that what you want !
The cable agreement was transparent and everything was agreed and disclosed to Aldar a far as I am aware, this does not however mean that I am supporting LOR and the treatment of the staff (me included), FWIW I truly think that EXALOR has well and truly 'hit the nail on the head'!
Read into that what you want !
Jun 11th 2009, 11:50 am
#43
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Jun 11th 2009, 5:31 pm
#44
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Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Cairo :-(
Posts: 376
Re: ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES
It was not the cable deal, I was involved in that deal, very late in the day (it was almost agreed the week i joined) and I did express my concerns about who was awarded the contract but it was deemed the most appropriate and viable deal at the time.
The cable agreement was transparent and everything was agreed and disclosed to Aldar a far as I am aware, this does not however mean that I am supporting LOR and the treatment of the staff (me included), FWIW I truly think that EXALOR has well and truly 'hit the nail on the head'!
Read into that what you want !
The cable agreement was transparent and everything was agreed and disclosed to Aldar a far as I am aware, this does not however mean that I am supporting LOR and the treatment of the staff (me included), FWIW I truly think that EXALOR has well and truly 'hit the nail on the head'!
Read into that what you want !
Jun 11th 2009, 5:48 pm
#45
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Joined: Jan 2008
Location: The Dust Bowl - Abu Dhabi
Posts: 1,219
Re: ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES
A few months ago there was a similar post about another construction company, i'm not going to name names but I knew what the guy said to be 100% true as we were affected by it. At the end of the day you don't need to be an accountant to work out that a cost plus contract does not encourage the contractor to give good value for money, it's spend money to make money, hence jobs now going "out to tender" in the manner that we would be perhaps more familiar with ie, best price/package and ability to deliver plus biggest brown envelope wins. I don't doubt a word this man says tbh, and of course they are not the only ones at it, how the F else are there guys in construction on 100k+ per month with wifes/maids/underpants allowances!
Yes of course there is the lack of tax sitution but i didnt go just for the money I wanted a better lifestyle and a new challenge and being perfectly honest I would have probably gone to AD on less money!
How times change.............older and wiser (Hopefully!)