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12,000 AED - enough? Wife, and one child?

12,000 AED - enough? Wife, and one child?

Old Mar 16th 2014, 2:32 pm
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Default Re: 12,000 AED - enough? Wife, and one child?

Originally Posted by helloworld2014 View Post
I'm under no illusions here - and in no way was I suggesting that others' may have less skills. I was responding to the fact that someone said that Indian and Pakistani workers would "accept" less than westerners. I was asking would they accept less for a managerial role, or senior position - even though there is an advertised salary. Would they demand a lower salary so that they can secure the job? Would they apply to a 24k AED a month job, and say, I'll take it for 15k AED because I can do the same for cheaper? I know I have a lot to learn in the dynamics of employment in the region!

Cheers for your help

Helloworld2014
They don't get to make the suggestion. You hire a westerner or an Indinan for example, that dictates the package.
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Old Mar 16th 2014, 4:26 pm
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Default Re: 12,000 AED - enough? Wife, and one child?

Salaries aren't advertised

Until a couple of years ago, my company had explicitly in the HR policy manual contracts that specified your allowances based on if you were an Eastern Hire or a Western Hire. Then they realised they were an international company technically, and that that was obviously racist, so now they have Expat salaries and "Non national local" salaries at lower job grades instead. Job advert is still the same. Nowadays additionally, most IT managerial roles go to locals, rather than expats (of any sort).
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Old Mar 16th 2014, 4:40 pm
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Default Re: 12,000 AED - enough? Wife, and one child?

Thanks very much for the info / advice. Definitely worth bearing in mind.

So my chances of securing an IT position (of any level) when I'm there would be extremely slim? Just need to secure a position before we go then (if we go..!).

Surely there must be many examples (posters on here) of wives who have secured a Teaching position, brought their husbands over with child, and then the husband finds work later down the line? Or have they all failed miserably, and returned home at the earliest possibility?

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Old Mar 16th 2014, 5:56 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: 12,000 AED - enough? Wife, and one child?

it's normally the other way around - husband finds work, wife gets bored as kids get older and decides to go back into teaching
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Old Mar 17th 2014, 4:49 am
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Default Re: 12,000 AED - enough? Wife, and one child?

Originally Posted by helloworld2014 View Post
Thanks very much for the info / advice. Definitely worth bearing in mind.

So my chances of securing an IT position (of any level) when I'm there would be extremely slim? Just need to secure a position before we go then (if we go..!).

Surely there must be many examples (posters on here) of wives who have secured a Teaching position, brought their husbands over with child, and then the husband finds work later down the line? Or have they all failed miserably, and returned home at the earliest possibility?

Helloworld2014
The more I think about it the more I'm not sure.

Let's say you live mega tight. My mrs and I spend about 5-700 a week on a food shop (I refuse to not eat meat every night). So for a family of three, call it 1000 a week.

That's 4,000 a month. Leaving 8,000.
Car hire - minimum 1500, realistically 2000. Leaving 6,000.
Random money that disappears each week - 2,000 a month. Leaving 4,000.
400 quid in debt to UK - 2,400 (let's assume you clear half so 1,200). Leaving 2,800.
Family things - I have no idea, but say 1,800 on trips to this, days at that, dinners here etc. Leaving 1,000.

I reckon it's do-able because the big cost of housing is covered, the next big cost of schooling is covered too. Just be conscious that the schools will want extra money here, there and everywhere for trips and shit. What makes me question it is that it's not very fun, I'm sure 6yo kids are quite demanding and need entertaining. IN fact, when I was 6 I probably ate like an adult!

What makes me a bit nervous for you, is not having the stash of cash to use if it all goes tits up.

If I were you, I'd be hammering it on Gulf Talent, MOnster Gulf, Linkedin, Careerstructure, TotalJobs, etc etc etc to find something before you come. At which point - life's good and you can chill out and save some cash money.
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Old Mar 17th 2014, 5:25 am
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Default Re: 12,000 AED - enough? Wife, and one child?

It is indeed very tight.

We (Me, wife + child) spend around 40k AED / month on everything (cars, house, school, utilities, etc). I do not live the life of an F1 driver, think more failing C-list celeb pinning their hopes on trying to make it on The Voice.

Adjusting for cars, schools, house, utilities and maid - I think we spend around 8k a month. While the six year old needs entertainment, the park, beach and pool doesn't cost much. A trip to the Cinema is only 35 AED with the buy-1-get-1 offers. It is doable, but very very tight - and its not a long-term play.
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Old Mar 17th 2014, 5:58 am
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Default Re: 12,000 AED - enough? Wife, and one child?

Originally Posted by Millhouse View Post
It is indeed very tight.

We (Me, wife + child) spend around 40k AED / month on everything (cars, house, school, utilities, etc). I do not live the life of an F1 driver, think more failing C-list celeb pinning their hopes on trying to make it on The Voice.

Adjusting for cars, schools, house, utilities and maid - I think we spend around 8k a month. While the six year old needs entertainment, the park, beach and pool doesn't cost much. A trip to the Cinema is only 35 AED with the buy-1-get-1 offers. It is doable, but very very tight - and its not a long-term play.
Plus...moving in August 2014 means needing to stay until April 2016 for tax reasons (I think that's correct), which if the money situation doesn't improve is a long time to stick out.
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Old Mar 17th 2014, 7:17 am
  #38  
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Default Re: 12,000 AED - enough? Wife, and one child?

There are jobs in IT for Western expats, but generally at a management level. Take a look at the international companies based in Dubai Internet City (DIC) for example. If you have a specific skill set then you should also try approaching companies directly.

You can live on AED 12,000 per month, but it won't be much fun. You really need some money to fall back on before you even contemplate moving here as there are all sorts of additional expenses in the first year.

As Scamp has alluded to, just because you receive your income free of tax it does not mean you won't have any liability to UK income tax. You need to be out of the UK for a full tax year to be considered non resident for tax purposes and it you stay in the UAE for just a couple of years income in partial years may be taxable.

If it was just the two of you it's fine, but it's a bigger risk when you have to take a child into consideration. I'd suggest that you really need to get a job lined up for yourself within a couple of months, as well as having some cash to fall back on, to make it a viable consideration.

Good luck.
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Old Mar 17th 2014, 7:54 am
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Default Re: 12,000 AED - enough? Wife, and one child?

Hi,

Many many thanks for all your advice. Honestly, really appreciated and very insightful and helpful. Thanks for a rough break down on some of your spendings, and the heads up on the tax situation (which I think has changed slightly since I last checked).

We've just heard from the school that (after we asked, and restated my wife's experience both within teaching and outside) they have "upped" the initial 12k AED to 14k AED per month. All the other "benefits" are the same. I know +2k AED is not a great deal, but it is better.

These pesky UK debts. We want them gone. And they will be. Realistically, our aim is to clear these before August. We both would have 6 pay days to do this, so it's not impossible, if we stick to a rigorous plan. We also have a few things that could give us a very very small bit of cash to take with us - the sale of our car (~£2k) and our rent deposit on our house (£1k - which we should get all back, as there are no issues, and we are on very good terms with our landlord). So, there is a potential for £3k to be sat there. Again, not a great deal, and I know how quickly this can go.

It all boils down to me getting a job. So, thanks for reiterating this. I know there is a bit of a lull on recruitment in the summer months, as everyone (well, not everyone) disappears to more moderate climates and holidays. So I need crack on with this.

We have until the end of the week to either accept the offer or not. A busy few days in store!

Many thanks again, some brilliant honest advice.

Helloworld2014
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Old Mar 17th 2014, 8:36 am
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Default Re: 12,000 AED - enough? Wife, and one child?

Originally Posted by helloworld2014 View Post
Hi,

Many many thanks for all your advice. Honestly, really appreciated and very insightful and helpful. Thanks for a rough break down on some of your spendings, and the heads up on the tax situation (which I think has changed slightly since I last checked).

We've just heard from the school that (after we asked, and restated my wife's experience both within teaching and outside) they have "upped" the initial 12k AED to 14k AED per month. All the other "benefits" are the same. I know +2k AED is not a great deal, but it is better.

These pesky UK debts. We want them gone. And they will be. Realistically, our aim is to clear these before August. We both would have 6 pay days to do this, so it's not impossible, if we stick to a rigorous plan. We also have a few things that could give us a very very small bit of cash to take with us - the sale of our car (~£2k) and our rent deposit on our house (£1k - which we should get all back, as there are no issues, and we are on very good terms with our landlord). So, there is a potential for £3k to be sat there. Again, not a great deal, and I know how quickly this can go.

It all boils down to me getting a job. So, thanks for reiterating this. I know there is a bit of a lull on recruitment in the summer months, as everyone (well, not everyone) disappears to more moderate climates and holidays. So I need crack on with this.

We have until the end of the week to either accept the offer or not. A busy few days in store!

Many thanks again, some brilliant honest advice.

Helloworld2014
You sound like you're smart enough to come to the answer that fits you guys correctly.

If you go for it, good luck.
If you don't, fair enough.
The main thing is you're giving this proper, sensible thought.
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Old Mar 17th 2014, 11:14 am
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Default Re: 12,000 AED - enough? Wife, and one child?

Agree with Scamp, and as has been said earlier, you won't know unless you try, and do you want to have the 'What if we had?' question keep popping into your head if you decide not to? If it doesn't work out, chalk it up as a life experience as move on, just make sure you don't immediately get a car-loan and run up credit card debt when you arrive or it could turn messy..
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Old Mar 17th 2014, 11:53 am
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Default Re: 12,000 AED - enough? Wife, and one child?

Originally Posted by Millsyisland View Post
Agree with Scamp, and as has been said earlier, you won't know unless you try, and do you want to have the 'What if we had?' question keep popping into your head if you decide not to? If it doesn't work out, chalk it up as a life experience as move on, just make sure you don't immediately get a car-loan and run up credit card debt when you arrive or it could turn messy..
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Old Mar 17th 2014, 6:58 pm
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Default Re: 12,000 AED - enough? Wife, and one child?

Well, well, well. Been contacted directly by the Director of one of the companies I approached about a potential job. The company is exactly in the specialism / sector that I work in. And looking at the amount of applications on LinkedIn, bayt, etc to this particular role - it looks like they have been waiting for quite a while for someone with particular skills to apply.

I'll be ringing the Director tomorrow morning to discuss further. Fingers crossed something comes out of this - as it would be perfect on all fronts.

Hopefully, I'll have another decision to ponder soon!

Thanks,

Helloworld2014
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Old Mar 17th 2014, 7:03 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: 12,000 AED - enough? Wife, and one child?

Originally Posted by helloworld2014 View Post
Well, well, well. Been contacted directly by the Director of one of the companies I approached about a potential job. The company is exactly in the specialism / sector that I work in. And looking at the amount of applications on LinkedIn, bayt, etc to this particular role - it looks like they have been waiting for quite a while for someone with particular skills to apply.

I'll be ringing the Director tomorrow morning to discuss further. Fingers crossed something comes out of this - as it would be perfect on all fronts.

Hopefully, I'll have another decision to ponder soon!

Thanks,

Helloworld2014
The most depressing number you can ever look at is the 'how many have applied' count on LinkedIn. The company I'm dying to work for, last time they advertised, had over 400 applicants... hence why I'm hoping the speculative approach will work better!
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Old Mar 17th 2014, 7:21 pm
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Default Re: 12,000 AED - enough? Wife, and one child?

Originally Posted by driftingaway View Post
The most depressing number you can ever look at is the 'how many have applied' count on LinkedIn. The company I'm dying to work for, last time they advertised, had over 400 applicants... hence why I'm hoping the speculative approach will work better!
400 applicants, 380 straight to the bin, 20 to be looked at a bit more carefully. Another 17 in the bin. 3 in for interview, maybe 1 is good enough to get an offer. maybe not. That's my experience of Dubai recruitment.

I wouldn't worry about the 400 number.
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