Rete

Kris

Add my condolences to the others. Like Jandeen I thought it was if the woman broke off the engagement the ring was to be returned. If the man broke it off, the woman kept the ring. That is what a small claims court told my sister over 30 years ago when her fiancee knocked up a girl when he was stationed in San Diego and married her and broke off their engagement. Sis got to keep the ring.

You have had to suffer a terrible blow to your instincts to trust and your skills of judgment and it will probably follow you for a long time to come. Only you can see that it does not warp your future relationships. I wish you godspeed in putting this sorry excuse for a person behind you.

Now my concern is the fact that you are still planning on coming to the US for the holiday season. You have a valid K-1 visa in your passport. I don't know how that will be viewed at the POE when you enter. Don't know if going to the US Consulate and having it cancelled will help either as it is now on the system that you have had a serious relationship with a USC with the intent to marry. Please discuss this vacation with the US Consulate and see what they have to say. I know that they can tell you it is fine but that the final judgment call is made by the examiner at the US POE. So please make your decision with that thought in mind.

Best wishes.

Rete

sibsie

This was one of the bizarre things I had to cover at police training school. Probably because we'd get called to so many domestics.

In the UK the engagement is a contract and when a party breaks it off they can technically be sued for breach of contract. Of course that isn't done these days but I think there was a recent case in England.

The ring is given as a condition of the engagement and if there is a dispute it would go to civil court. I can't recall any actual ruling about permanent ownership. Of course it could well be different in NZ and the US which is where Krissy and her ex hail from.

saidsgirl

Yeah Leslie....where *IS* that puking smilie?
I love that one!!

saidsgirl

I don't think she HAS the K1 yet....do you Krissy? I thought it was still in progress. Does that still effect travel plans? If so, that really sucks for her.

Leslie

I think the ring should be returned in most cases. However, in a case where the woman was obviously misled by her fiance, I personally don't believe she owes him anything. He knew he was a lying cheat when he gave her the ring, he was just counting on not getting caught. He took a gamble and lost, he has no right to be indignant. As far as what she could use the ring for...... My first thought would be to sell it and try to re-coup some of her own expenses (plane tickets, phone bills, gifts she may have given him, etc.) This guy is obviously a predator and deserves NOTHING but contempt. In fact I think she should sue him.

Leslie

P.S. Kristine, I'll post my timeline on this one so my puking smilie can have it's say on the subject.

krissyv

The law in NZ is that its a gift & as such the ring doesn't have to be returned.
But if you want to get technical I truelly believe that as the contract (promise of marriage) with offer & acceptance of engagement was made in NZ then New Zealand law applies - also he was in breach of the contract with his cheating
I guess one bonus is that as I'm a lawyer my boss has promised as much free legal work & support that I need to fight this...
No I'm not going to keep the ring, I'm going to sell it and recoup the costs from my trip ($3500.00) plus other costs I have incurred because of him.
If he had done this and not gotten abusive or threatening, if he'd just apologised I would have happily given him the balance but now I'm coping with the mental stress of all his threats & don't feel like I owe him any favours....
Maybe its not the best attitude but I'm hurt, shocked, and angry...
Krissy
PS Rene - taken your advice and am too concerned if I would get in at the POE so will cancell the ticket & just absorb the cost. My safety is more important than losing afew grand.

krissyv

Yep the petition is still with CSC but we are about two days from my prediction having it accepted or RFE'ed - he has refused to withdraw it and said he is contacting CSC on Monday to report that I had fraudulent intent etc etc...
I think that's how he's planning to get me barred...he also has my initerary so am concerned he will try & do something to me if I go up....
This is the most horrible thing that has ever happened to me & it just seems to be getting worse.
But - I do appreciate your comments & support - bigs hugs to all of you!
Krissy

saidsgirl

Krissy...

You're an intelligent woman and no doubt have already done this...but I'd print out those emails of his and make a nice file for INS so that you can at least come here to see your brother!

Just because you got caught up with a complete dirtbag doesn't mean YOU should suffer the consequences. And if you bring this to the attention of the INS before he tries to do anything obnoxious, then it might be better for you.

Best of luck...
~kristine

Dekka's Angel

Setting aside all the freaky deaky aspects of this situation, I hate to be the one to bring this to your attention but in many states in the US, any gift in contemplation of marriage, including an engagement ring, is a conditional gift subject to return at the election of the giver if the contract is not performed. In order to know what law you'd be subject to, you'd need to look at the law at the state in which your ex fiance resides.

Then you get to have some choice of law fun, because of course you're correct in pointing out that the situs of the contract governs the applicable law, so the question becomes whether the ring is governed by New Zealand or whichever state's law.

Personally....I'd make him sue you in New Zealand, just because I'm evil like that. But of course, personal service rules being what they are, he can in theory obtain jurisdiction in a US court over you simply by effectuating international service (assuming he can figure out how to do that, and I assume you aren't going to tell him). If that occurs, you'd have to at a minimum have someone make an appearance for a change of venue and there are all sorts of conventions governing that.....

What fun.

Sorry your ex-fiance is a heel. Good luck sorting things.

P.S. I just realized your fiance is in California. The statute that governs is Civil Code 1590, and it requires return of the ring unless there is a court finding that you don't have to give it back:

"Where either party to a contemplated marriage in this State makes a gift of money or property to the other on the basis or assumption that the marriage will take place, in the event that the donee refuses to enter into the marriage as contemplated or that it is given up by mutual consent, the donor may recover such gift or such part of its value as may, under all of the circumstances of the case, be found by a court or jury to be just".

krissyv

For those that are curious - I met him in the SF in a bar (ok sounds silly now) we dated for a few months then moved in together for three months before I had to come home to get admitted to the bar here.
He came down twice for a few months here and proposed....
I'm pretty sure he can't do anything to me in terms of suing but just in case I'm going to get the cash put it on TD and then if things gets really messy & not in my favour, I'll settle, allowing for my costs...
He's from California so i'm not sure about the law there - I've heard so many different opinions already.
His mum is a lawyer so another lawyer from my firm will contact her this week and explain our position in terms of jurisdiction & breach of contract. I'm sure since he's a dentist & I now how prrof of his cheating and drug use that she wouldn't want to push this into a court of law...keep in mind he's got his reputation to consider here
Krissy

Dekka's Angel

Doh we bumped heads - see my edited post above. The relevant statute is Civil Code 1590.

krissyv

Thanks just saw that - thanks!
This is obviously a situation that has not happened by mutual consent & I believe that he stopped any contemplation of marriage by cheating on me...I never actually said that it was off...when I found out I asked if he new what this meant & he said yes, its over....I can't see how a court would find in his favour...there is also an estoppel argument here - I relied on his advice (promise of love & marriage even after he was sleeping with other girls to my detriment) so could easily claim for all my associated costs.....

dutchman2001nl

Dump the F****** idiot, krissyv !!!
What an asshole !

Hypertweeky

That sucks Kris!!
Call the whole thing off and stay away
I am sorry things didn't work out and he turned to be an a55hole..

Rete

Sorry. Krissy wrote she was the beneficiary of a K-1. I read that to be that she had the K-1 already. I see from her post that is not so.

Rete