COSPhil

Apologies, yet another question.

I have read through a search and come up with some conflicting answers.

As some of you know I'm currently in the K1 process (having filed the I-129F a week or so ago). In the meantime we are planning to visit.

I am conscious I really do not want to do anything outside of what is allowed.

I am planning three visits, and my OH is planning two to the UK;
1. 4 days for business reasons in late October (may be cancelled).
2. 18 days in November/December to visit
3. 68 or 72 days in January to visit.

All three visits are likely to enter via different POEs. In November I am flying via Toronto, Ontario (not sure if I will clear immigration on Toronto or Denver). In January I will enter at either Atlanta or Denver - but looking to clarify below questions before I travel.

(I am aware the final call always lies with the Officer at the POE).

Can someone clarify.

1. Have you had any issues entering the United States for a longer period of time (circa 70 to 80 days) on the VWP? If so, at any particular POEs? Is there anything I should prepare to prevent this?

2. My current ETSA application states flight details for my trip in November. Will I need to re-apply for a further ETSA for the January visit?

3. Will my passport be "re-stamped" for 90 days at the January visit, or for the remainder of the 90 days (68 or 72).

Is there any other issues anyone can see with the above plan?

Thanks again to everyone who has more experience in this. It's been a wonderful resource.

Thanks

Phil

COSPhil

Also, just to check I'm staying with my OH - which makes proving hotel stays challenging.

Is there any more evidence I should seek to take?

COSPhil

Also, is it worth me taking evidence of my visa application for the K1? This will show I have to return to London to complete this process and I have the intent to go through the system correctly.

ian-mstm

You will clear US immigration in Toronto.


You will receive either 90 days on the VWP... or 0 days. That's what's allowed. Regardless of the time you spend, you will have the same 50/50 chance of being admitted for "circa 70 to 80 days" as you would if you were to spend only 10 days in the US. It's the nature of the beast.


No... ESTA is valid for 2 years. Just update the ESTA info online.


It will be a new 90-day entry.


It'll likely only be a problem if the officer thinks that 2 visits in as many months means something more than you say it actually is.


There is no requirement to stay in a hotel.


Proof of your intent to leave!


Yes... because... "This will show I have to return to London to complete this process and I have the intent to go through the system correctly."

Ian

jeffreyhy

What is allowed for a VWP entry is that one is entering for either business or pleasure purposes, and that one intends to be in the USA for 90 days or less. No, it will not show that you have to return to London to complete your K1 visa process, because you do not "have to". You could equally well abandon the K1 visa application once you are in the USA and apply for adjustment of status. Regards, JEff

COSPhil

Thanks Ian - much appreciated.

Is it also possible that I will be admitted under the same 90 day stamp as on my first US entry in November (i.e. I will have 16th November plus whatever 90 days is and will be forced to return on the 90th day).

On proof of intent, how can I prove this?

Jeffery mentions bringing the K1 isn't proof enough, so I guess my question is what is? I guess almost anything can be abandoned and stay in the USA?

I can think of;

- Rental Agreement for my flat in London.
- Original boarding cards for my November visit.
- Proof of my employment expiring due to the Olympic Games, so a rational explanation behind that? I do have some consultancy (self-employed) work in the UK that I will be doing when I'm back in the UK.
- Letter from the Olympic Training Centre stating I will be staying there (from/to).

Anything else?

JRG67

You are fortunate you can visit your fiancee on the VWP during the K-1 procedure ( I can't as I screwed up!). How long will you be back in the UK during steps 2 and 3?
I wouldn't worry too much. You are not trying to screw the system and just want to be with you OH during the long K-1 process, so I'm sure you won't have much problem at the POE. Keep us posted. Good luck.

JRG67

I think attitude is more important then evidence (often evidence is not even taken into consideration as anything can be forged). Don't worry so much and enjoy the whole experience.

COSPhil

I'll be back in Canada on December 4th (although not back in the UK until December 7th).

I then fly to USA on 23rd January, so a total of 28 days in December and 23 days in January, so a total of 51 days out of nation (I think assuming my maths is correct).

Ian/Jeffery - on the basis that its essentially 90 or bust, should I assume to book a flight for 80 days?

civilservant

I'm in the US at the moment for 3 weeks with my wife while my CR1 is processing. The PoE officer didn't even bat an eyelid when I said I was seeing my wife.

ian-mstm

Asked and answered already! All you need to do is read what I've already written.


No idea... philosophically speaking, it's impossible to prove that you don't intend to stay! That said, many hundreds of thousands have no problem at the POE... and, by staggering coincidence, the only people who think they might have problems are the people who tend to overthink things!


True!

Ian

COSPhil

Great thanks - did you go through a particular PoE?

I've heard it's best to avoid Dallas-Fort Worth?

I will enter in November via Toronto - I am probably going to fly directly into Denver in January. This is slightly more pricey but will mean I'm not worried about connection times.

JRG67

Relax!
Overthinking!

jeffreyhy

That's correct. Many people do it. (Not abandon an active visa application, but they readily abandon other obligations and could abandon a visa application if they wanted to.) Let's stop and think for a minute:
- you do intend to leave your flat in London. The question is not if, but when.
- Boarding cards for a future trip? That you might never take?
- It only takes a phone call to tell a client, 'Sorry, I won't be back as planned, you'll need to find someone else.'
- Your reservation at the OTC can easily be cancelled, can it not?

The point is, to repeat myself, you are on record as planning to sever all of your 'ties' to the UK. The question is not if, it's when.

Bring whatever you want, whatever makes you comfortable. It won't be looked at. You will be granted entry, or not, based on how the CPB agent sizes you up as they ask you a few basic questions and make some 'small talk'. Most people are granted entry, so the odds are on your side. Regards, JEff

Noorah101

COPhil,

I'm still not clear on where you are going in between the US trips. If you are only going to Canada, your 90-day clock will NOT be reset, and you'll be given the remainder of the original 90 days when you return to the USA.

If you are going all the way back to the UK, then you'll be given a new 90 days when you return to the USA.

It's best not to make back-to-back trips to the USA (not counting Canada, because that's still considered just one stay in the USA). For best results, stay back in the UK longer than you were just inside the USA.

Rene