Romperkid

Our lives suddenly took a drastic turn. Although this is only the
beginning of our nightmare, I'd like to share this story with you as
an example of innocent victims of the immigration system.

My spouse received a letter entitled "Termination of Conditional
Residence Status." In short, I am a US citizen who married a foreign
national. Our adjustment of status was approved on a conditional
basis. We filed the joint petition to remove the conditional status
within the proper time frame, which was almost 3 years ago. We did
not hear from the INS until recently; we are still within the 39 month
period, so at this point we would not be entitled to inquire about our
case status.

The letter states that we were scheduled for an interview last year
(to remove the conditional status) and failed to appear. According to
8 CFR 216.4(b), if a couple fails to appear for the interview, the
alien's permanent residence status will be automatically terminated.

We never received any notice to appear for the interview last year,
and we have maintained the same address all along. How could this
happen?

The letter concludes with ORDER: Based on the foregoing facts and
law in accordance with....it is ordered that the status as conditional
permanent resident be, and the same is hereby terminated under this
application.

The letter is signed by the District Director. It is a personal
letter, not some kind of form or court document. There is no
information as to how we can dispute or appeal this order. According
to 8 CFR, decisions by the District Director are final and
non-appealable. This seems very harsh considering that this is only
an issue of scheduling. I don't know why there was not any
confirmation or reminder letter. I believe that there is a way to
reschedule the interview, but if we never received the letter in the
first place, how would we know?

We received two letters that reminded us to file Form I-751 within the
required time period. Why was there only one letter regarding the
interview?

There is relief for those who filed Form I-751 late (you have to write
to the regional service center and show good cause for failing to file
on time), why is there no similar exception for the interview?

I immediately called the National INS Service Center. The initial
person could not give me any useful advice, so she transferred me to
another immigration officer. She told me to file a "motion to reopen"
or "motion for reconsideration," and that it can be as simple as a
personal letter, i.e. it doesn't have to be a brief or pleading.
According to the INS website, a motion to reopen is a request to
review new facts, and a motion to reconsider challenges the
application of law or INS policy.

I am frantically going through the yellow pages trying to find an
attorney who has heard of this type of case. Unfortunately, all of
the more popular immigration firms are booked for the next couple of
weeks.

My research has also revealed that at some point the case will proceed
from the District Director to the Immigration Judge (for removal
proceedings), and jurisdiction will change accordingly. At this
point, since time is of the essence, I think a motion to reopen or
reconsider to the District Director is worth submitting; once the case
is in the judge's hands, the District Director will no longer have the
authority to decide the case. I hope it's not too late.

Mrtravel

romperkid wrote:
    >
    > Our lives suddenly took a drastic turn. Although this is only the
    > beginning of our nightmare, I'd like to share this story with you as
    > an example of innocent victims of the immigration system.
    >
    > My spouse received a letter entitled "Termination of Conditional
    > Residence Status." In short, I am a US citizen who married a foreign
    > national. Our adjustment of status was approved on a conditional
    > basis. We filed the joint petition to remove the conditional status
    > within the proper time frame, which was almost 3 years ago.

You filed I-751 3 years ago, didn't hear anything, and didn't contact
them?

We did
    > not hear from the INS until recently; we are still within the 39 month
    > period, so at this point we would not be entitled to inquire about our
    > case status.

What 39 month period?
If you didn't here from them for a year, you would have had to get your
green card extended again.
Did you do this?

Jadm

this is scary, we are about to file for removal of conditions also,
what service center did you use? dont give up*

Romperkid

mrtravel wrote in message news:...

    > You filed I-751 3 years ago, didn't hear anything, and didn't contact
    > them?
    >
    > We did

The receipt we received for the I-751 says "If you have not heard from
us within 39 months, then you may contact this office."

3 years is only 36 months.

    >
    > What 39 month period?
    > If you didn't here from them for a year, you would have had to get your
    > green card extended again.
    > Did you do this?

If you have an expired green card and your I-751 application is
pending, you have to wait for a response from the INS. You can't
extend your green card every year like a passport.

Daniel Pearson

Sounds like a bad case of an INS "cock-up!" I too had a similar thing happen
to me back in 2000. I had been waiting for notice of my EAD pick up date. It
never came and after 90 days wait, my lawyer wrote a letter to present to
the INS office in person in an attempt to collect it.

After waiting I was finally called over by a female INS officer who was
clearly angry and was shown a letter they had sent to me giving a date of
April 12th for EAD pick up. I told her I had never seen that letter before
and when I looked at it..it didn't have the PO Box number in the address (we
had a PO Box number address which was clearly written on all application
forms!). Somebody had decided to leave off the PO Box number for some
reason. Of course, we never got the original appointment letter. Nor did our
lawyer and they are supposed to send the same letters to both parties.
Failure to appear can be ground for termination and ultimately deportation
proceedings. However, realising their mistake, she did re-schedule a date 2
weeks later. It took almost 110 days to get the EAD!

This was all pre-9/11 of course. These days the INS/BCIS are going strictly
by the book. My advice would be to get a good lawyer (duh!) and it might be
better to let it go to the Immigration Judge since:

a) In general you would have the right to appeal any INS decision
b) The INS are required to give written notice of any appointment. They do
have certain proceedures to follow.
c) If you can prove that were at the same address all that time and that the
INS had that address on record, then clearly it would be their fault.
d) Immigration Judges can overturn INS decisions.

And no, I'm not a lawyer, just a INS layperson expert ;-)

Rete

Yes you can. After the notice of action extending your green card for one year has expired you can walk into your district office and have your passport stamped with an I-551 extending the green card for one more year.

Which service center did you apply to so many years ago? The current timelines from the service centers range from one year for Vermont to 5-6 months for Nebraska.

Rete

Rete

Also note that if your spouse had applied for naturalization when eligible, even though the I-751 had not been acted upon, they would have adjudicated both and at a faster timeline than 39 months.

This is exactly what my husband will be doing this spring even though Vermont will not have removed his conditions by the time his naturalization eligibility has kicked in.

Rete

Jonathan_atc

No, you don't have to wait for contact from INS. 90 days before your green
card expires you go in and get it extended. You dropped the ball. You
should have been in contact with INS during this period. You should have
extended your green card when it expired.

What to do now? You'll have to find a way to contact the local INS office.
You should go there and plead your case. Mistakes happen and they know
this. You will be able to get a new green card with no conditions, I
surmise.

--
Jonathan_ATC

"romperkid" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > mrtravel wrote in message
news:...
    > > You filed I-751 3 years ago, didn't hear anything, and didn't contact
    > > them?
    > >
    > > We did
    > The receipt we received for the I-751 says "If you have not heard from
    > us within 39 months, then you may contact this office."
    > 3 years is only 36 months.
    > >
    > > What 39 month period?
    > > If you didn't here from them for a year, you would have had to get your
    > > green card extended again.
    > > Did you do this?
    > If you have an expired green card and your I-751 application is
    > pending, you have to wait for a response from the INS. You can't
    > extend your green card every year like a passport.

Joachim Feise

romperkid wrote:
    > Our lives suddenly took a drastic turn. Although this is only the
    > beginning of our nightmare, I'd like to share this story with you as
    > an example of innocent victims of the immigration system.

Get a lawyer ASAP.
I once met a couple in a similar situation. The foreign spouse was
deported and it took a year to sorten out the mess and get her back into
the country.
With INS, you *always* have to keep on top of things, and that's what
lawyers are there for.

Romperkid

"Jonathan_ATC" wrote in message news:...

    > No, you don't have to wait for contact from INS. 90 days before your green
    > card expires you go in and get it extended. You dropped the ball. You
    > should have been in contact with INS during this period. You should have
    > extended your green card when it expired.

I may be wrong, but I think that applies to Permanent Residents who
have 10-year greencards. Is Form I-90 the application to use to
extend an expiring greencard? If so, it says that Conditional
Permanent Residents can use it only to replace a card that was lost,
destroyed, stolen, or has incorrect information. It also says that
conditional residents should use form I-751, which we did. Were we
supposed to file I-751 every year if we didn't receive a response from
the INS?






    >
    > What to do now? You'll have to find a way to contact the local INS office.
    > You should go there and plead your case. Mistakes happen and they know
    > this. You will be able to get a new green card with no conditions, I
    > surmise.
    >
    > --
    > Jonathan_ATC
    >
    > "romperkid" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > mrtravel wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >
    > > > You filed I-751 3 years ago, didn't hear anything, and didn't contact
    > > > them?
    > > >
    > > > We did
    > >
    > > The receipt we received for the I-751 says "If you have not heard from
    > > us within 39 months, then you may contact this office."
    > >
    > > 3 years is only 36 months.
    > >
    > > >
    > > > What 39 month period?
    > > > If you didn't here from them for a year, you would have had to get your
    > > > green card extended again.
    > > > Did you do this?
    > >
    > > If you have an expired green card and your I-751 application is
    > > pending, you have to wait for a response from the INS. You can't
    > > extend your green card every year like a passport.
    > >

Alf

Once you filed the form I-751, there will be no more
form you have to file other than waiting for INS decision.
When your green card is about to expire, just go to
local INS office, show them your receipt of I-751, and
ask for extension. That's it. If you haven't heard from INS,
you might as well check with local INS to ask your status
while having your green card extended (your passport
is stamped).

"romperkid" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

    > I may be wrong, but I think that applies to Permanent Residents who
    > have 10-year greencards. Is Form I-90 the application to use to
    > extend an expiring greencard? If so, it says that Conditional
    > Permanent Residents can use it only to replace a card that was lost,
    > destroyed, stolen, or has incorrect information. It also says that
    > conditional residents should use form I-751, which we did. Were we
    > supposed to file I-751 every year if we didn't receive a response from
    > the INS?

L D Jones

romperkid wrote:
    >
    > "Jonathan_ATC" wrote in message news:...
    >
    > > No, you don't have to wait for contact from INS. 90 days before your green
    > > card expires you go in and get it extended. You dropped the ball. You
    > > should have been in contact with INS during this period. You should have
    > > extended your green card when it expired.
    >
    > I may be wrong, but I think that applies to Permanent Residents who
    > have 10-year greencards. Is Form I-90 the application to use to
    > extend an expiring greencard? If so, it says that Conditional

This discussion is not about form I-90. It doesn't apply here at all.
The greencard was not lost (at least I don't recall reading that in your
message)

    > Permanent Residents can use it only to replace a card that was lost,
    > destroyed, stolen, or has incorrect information. It also says that
    > conditional residents should use form I-751, which we did. Were we
    > supposed to file I-751 every year if we didn't receive a response from
    > the INS?

No, you should have had a new "greencard" stamp ("I-551 stamp") placed
in the passport when the letter to extend status after filing the I-751
was about to expire. This is the extension referred to in this thread.

Romperkid

L D Jones wrote in message news:...

    > This discussion is not about form I-90. It doesn't apply here at all.
    > The greencard was not lost (at least I don't recall reading that in your
    > message)

OK, just to distinguish between permanent residents and conditional
permanent residents, greencard extention is performed as follows:

1. Permanent residents: file I-90 in a timely fashion
2. Conditional permanent residents: file I-751 in a timely fashion +
obtain greencard stamp on your passport every year until the
application is approved or denied

Is this an accurate summary?

    > > extend an expiring greencard? If so, it says that Conditional
    > > Permanent Residents can use it only to replace a card that was lost,
    > > destroyed, stolen, or has incorrect information. It also says that
    > > conditional residents should use form I-751, which we did. Were we
    > > supposed to file I-751 every year if we didn't receive a response from
    > > the INS?
    >
    > No, you should have had a new "greencard" stamp ("I-551 stamp") placed
    > in the passport when the letter to extend status after filing the I-751
    > was about to expire. This is the extension referred to in this thread.

The strange thing is, the INS sends two letters to remind you to file
I-751, but the need to get yearly I-551 passport stamp is not
stressed. Granted, it's obvious that the expiration date on the
letter or stamp should serve as its own reminder, but what are the
guidelines in getting the stamp? Is there some limitation, e.g. you
must renew the passport stamp within xx days prior to the expiration
date?

Let's say hypothetically I filed I-751 on January 1, 2000 and received
my receipt (Form G854) on January 10, 2000. One year passes, I fail
to get the passport stamp; the greencard becomes invalid and I am out
of status. Why would they even bother to schedule the I-751
interview? Wouldn't they just deny the application based on the fact
that I didn't get the passport stamp?

I read something interesting on the INS' website that contradicts the
language on the G-854 form stating that the card is extended for one
year:

8CFR216.4(a)(1) - (last sentence): "Upon receipt of a properly filed
Form I-751, the alien's conditional permanent resident status shall be
extended automatically, if necessary, until such time as the director
has adjudicated the petition."

If this is true then it would seem to me that the yearly passport
stamp would only need to be renewed if the applicant wanted to travel
abroad. The quoted passage is also consistent with other types of
extensions. For example, when you file to extend a visitor visa, as
long as your application is pending and you keep your receipt, you can
lawfully remain in the US beyond your deadline.

Also, it seems more efficient to allow the I-751 applicant to retain
their status until the application is either approved or denied. By
requiring a yearly passport stamp, all conditional permanent residents
have to visit a local INS office once a year which undoubtedly
contributes to the long lines.

Op

----- Original Message -----
From: "romperkid"
    >>..
    > Also, it seems more efficient to allow the I-751 applicant to retain
    > their status until the application is either approved or denied. By
    > requiring a yearly passport stamp, all conditional permanent residents
    > have to visit a local INS office once a year which undoubtedly
    > contributes to the long lines.

Furthermore, I believe some INS offices will not give the stamp. That is
the case with the 'initial' (ie first) 1 yr extension at some offices, but I
don't know about all offices nor about subsequent years. I am only in the
first year of waiting for my I-751 but I believe I am dealing with one such
office (they don't give the stamp, at least for the first year). Again, it
seems there may be variation between offices (check the google group
archives, I believe if they go back far enough you will read of cases where
applicants have visited their office to get the passport stamp in the first
year but been refused it and told their extension letter was all that was
required to travel, in subsequent years I dont know what the INS offices
would say).

I do believe the passport stamp is only a visual indicator of status and
"romperkid" is correct - during processing of the I-751 you are still in
resident status, you just may not have a document to prove it (ie may not
have an extension letter, like me, or a passport stamp). Recent posts here
by folinskyla would serve to back that up (ie that status is preserved while
processing of I-751 is in progress), maybe he will comment.


"romperkid" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > L D Jones wrote in message
news:...
    > > This discussion is not about form I-90. It doesn't apply here at all.
    > > The greencard was not lost (at least I don't recall reading that in your
    > > message)
    > OK, just to distinguish between permanent residents and conditional
    > permanent residents, greencard extention is performed as follows:
    > 1. Permanent residents: file I-90 in a timely fashion
    > 2. Conditional permanent residents: file I-751 in a timely fashion +
    > obtain greencard stamp on your passport every year until the
    > application is approved or denied
    > Is this an accurate summary?
    > > > extend an expiring greencard? If so, it says that Conditional
    > > > Permanent Residents can use it only to replace a card that was lost,
    > > > destroyed, stolen, or has incorrect information. It also says that
    > > > conditional residents should use form I-751, which we did. Were we
    > > > supposed to file I-751 every year if we didn't receive a response from
    > > > the INS?
    > >
    > > No, you should have had a new "greencard" stamp ("I-551 stamp") placed
    > > in the passport when the letter to extend status after filing the I-751
    > > was about to expire. This is the extension referred to in this thread.
    > The strange thing is, the INS sends two letters to remind you to file
    > I-751, but the need to get yearly I-551 passport stamp is not
    > stressed. Granted, it's obvious that the expiration date on the
    > letter or stamp should serve as its own reminder, but what are the
    > guidelines in getting the stamp? Is there some limitation, e.g. you
    > must renew the passport stamp within xx days prior to the expiration
    > date?
    > Let's say hypothetically I filed I-751 on January 1, 2000 and received
    > my receipt (Form G854) on January 10, 2000. One year passes, I fail
    > to get the passport stamp; the greencard becomes invalid and I am out
    > of status. Why would they even bother to schedule the I-751
    > interview? Wouldn't they just deny the application based on the fact
    > that I didn't get the passport stamp?
    > I read something interesting on the INS' website that contradicts the
    > language on the G-854 form stating that the card is extended for one
    > year:
    > 8CFR216.4(a)(1) - (last sentence): "Upon receipt of a properly filed
    > Form I-751, the alien's conditional permanent resident status shall be
    > extended automatically, if necessary, until such time as the director
    > has adjudicated the petition."
    > If this is true then it would seem to me that the yearly passport
    > stamp would only need to be renewed if the applicant wanted to travel
    > abroad. The quoted passage is also consistent with other types of
    > extensions. For example, when you file to extend a visitor visa, as
    > long as your application is pending and you keep your receipt, you can
    > lawfully remain in the US beyond your deadline.
    > Also, it seems more efficient to allow the I-751 applicant to retain
    > their status until the application is either approved or denied. By
    > requiring a yearly passport stamp, all conditional permanent residents
    > have to visit a local INS office once a year which undoubtedly
    > contributes to the long lines.

L D Jones

romperkid wrote:
    >
    > L D Jones wrote in message news:...
    >
    > > This discussion is not about form I-90. It doesn't apply here at all.
    > > The greencard was not lost (at least I don't recall reading that in your
    > > message)
    >
    > OK, just to distinguish between permanent residents and conditional
    > permanent residents, greencard extention is performed as follows:
    >
    > 1. Permanent residents: file I-90 in a timely fashion
    > 2. Conditional permanent residents: file I-751 in a timely fashion +
    > obtain greencard stamp on your passport every year until the
    > application is approved or denied
    >
    > Is this an accurate summary?

I believe so, yes

    >
    > > > extend an expiring greencard? If so, it says that Conditional
    > > > Permanent Residents can use it only to replace a card that was lost,
    > > > destroyed, stolen, or has incorrect information. It also says that
    > > > conditional residents should use form I-751, which we did. Were we
    > > > supposed to file I-751 every year if we didn't receive a response from
    > > > the INS?
    > >
    > > No, you should have had a new "greencard" stamp ("I-551 stamp") placed
    > > in the passport when the letter to extend status after filing the I-751
    > > was about to expire. This is the extension referred to in this thread.
    >
    > The strange thing is, the INS sends two letters to remind you to file
    > I-751, but the need to get yearly I-551 passport stamp is not
    > stressed. Granted, it's obvious that the expiration date on the
    > letter or stamp should serve as its own reminder, but what are the
    > guidelines in getting the stamp? Is there some limitation, e.g. you
    > must renew the passport stamp within xx days prior to the expiration
    > date?
    >
    > Let's say hypothetically I filed I-751 on January 1, 2000 and received
    > my receipt (Form G854) on January 10, 2000. One year passes, I fail
    > to get the passport stamp; the greencard becomes invalid and I am out
    > of status. Why would they even bother to schedule the I-751
    > interview? Wouldn't they just deny the application based on the fact
    > that I didn't get the passport stamp?
    >
    > I read something interesting on the INS' website that contradicts the
    > language on the G-854 form stating that the card is extended for one
    > year:
    >
    > 8CFR216.4(a)(1) - (last sentence): "Upon receipt of a properly filed
    > Form I-751, the alien's conditional permanent resident status shall be
    > extended automatically, if necessary, until such time as the director
    > has adjudicated the petition."
    >
    > If this is true then it would seem to me that the yearly passport
    > stamp would only need to be renewed if the applicant wanted to travel
    > abroad. The quoted passage is also consistent with other types of
    > extensions. For example, when you file to extend a visitor visa, as
    > long as your application is pending and you keep your receipt, you can
    > lawfully remain in the US beyond your deadline.
    >
    > Also, it seems more efficient to allow the I-751 applicant to retain
    > their status until the application is either approved or denied. By
    > requiring a yearly passport stamp, all conditional permanent residents
    > have to visit a local INS office once a year which undoubtedly
    > contributes to the long lines.

I believe the permanenet resident status itself does not expire. As
someone noted, not all local offices will provide the stamp even after a
year has passed. Whether one is _required_ to get the stamp or not I
don't know. As you say, in order to travel if the extension letter has
expired I believe the stamp should be obtained.