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Should I get a pre-nup?

Should I get a pre-nup?

Old Dec 17th 2003, 4:39 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Should I get a pre-nup?

Originally posted by blenky16
In my mind, this is what is wrong with marriage today. The stats say it... 50% end in divorce... no one willing to stick it out and work on things... everyone wanting to prepare for the divorce before they even get into the marriage. I understand the idea of a pre-nup, and I am not going to say it is wrong, but at the same time, there has got to be a reason that everyone is so willingly and easily getting divorces these days.

Controversial thought? Likely!

I agree completely.
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Old Dec 17th 2003, 4:52 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Should I get a pre-nup?

I suggested a pre-nup..but the wife said not to bother...her friends Mr Smith And Mr Wesson will sort out any marital disputes we have... must be some law firm she knows..
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Old Dec 17th 2003, 5:07 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Should I get a pre-nup?

Originally posted by ray6
I suggested a pre-nup..but the wife said not to bother...her friends Mr Smith And Mr Wesson will sort out any marital disputes we have... must be some law firm she knows..
LMAO
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Old Dec 17th 2003, 5:21 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Should I get a pre-nup?

Originally posted by blenky16
In my mind, this is what is wrong with marriage today. The stats say it... 50% end in divorce... no one willing to stick it out and work on things... everyone wanting to prepare for the divorce before they even get into the marriage. I understand the idea of a pre-nup, and I am not going to say it is wrong, but at the same time, there has got to be a reason that everyone is so willingly and easily getting divorces these days.

Controversial thought? Likely!
I always thought there are many divorces because people get married so willingly and easily and without much forethought. Not everyone who has a prenup necessarily ends up in a divorce. They just acknowledge that the possibility is there, and that they'd rather settle things when emotions are not running high. Most I hear of, it's the people who believed they'll live happily ever after who has the most bitter split ups in the end.
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Old Dec 17th 2003, 5:36 pm
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Default Re: Should I get a pre-nup?

Originally posted by majken
I always thought there are many divorces because people get married so willingly and easily and without much forethought. Not everyone who has a prenup necessarily ends up in a divorce. They just acknowledge that the possibility is there, and that they'd rather settle things when emotions are not running high. Most I hear of, it's the people who believed they'll live happily ever after who has the most bitter split ups in the end.

A lot of it is expectation. What you expect out of a marriage isn't always what you get. I'm sure that this happened in the old days too, but folks just "got over it" so to speak, because of the stigma attached to divorce.
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Old Dec 17th 2003, 5:57 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Should I get a pre-nup?

Originally posted by Leslie66
A lot of it is expectation. What you expect out of a marriage isn't always what you get. I'm sure that this happened in the old days too, but folks just "got over it" so to speak, because of the stigma attached to divorce.
I think it's an interesting subject. Folks just didn't "get over it" back then because of the social stigma. I think a lot of it also had something to do with the women's earning capacity. They just didn't have much choice but to stay married in order to support themselves and their children. The concept of child support, or at least the enforcement of it, seems to be fairly recent. And most of the women back then were housewives, or, if they were working, their earnings were not at par with the men.
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Old Dec 17th 2003, 6:04 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: Should I get a pre-nup?

Originally posted by majken
I think it's an interesting subject. Folks just didn't "get over it" back then because of the social stigma. I think a lot of it also had something to do with the women's earning capacity. They just didn't have much choice but to stay married in order to support themselves and their children. The concept of child support, or at least the enforcement of it, seems to be fairly recent. And most of the women back then were housewives, or, if they were working, their earnings were not at par with the men.

Probably true to some extent. But divorce rates among the wealthy have increased as well.
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Old Dec 17th 2003, 7:20 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Should I get a pre-nup?

Originally posted by blenky16
In my mind, this is what is wrong with marriage today. The stats say it... 50% end in divorce... no one willing to stick it out and work on things... everyone wanting to prepare for the divorce before they even get into the marriage. I understand the idea of a pre-nup, and I am not going to say it is wrong, but at the same time, there has got to be a reason that everyone is so willingly and easily getting divorces these days.

Controversial thought? Likely!
I don't disagree with you about far too many people divorcing too quickly these days without putting in the hard work of marriage. So that's not a controversial thought to me personally.

However, I have three children I have worked all my adult life for and everything I had when I married, I had because someday I wished to leave it for them. Much as I love my husband and I do, certain things (my house, most significantly) belong to them. Period. To say that somehow I am planning for divorce just because I took the time to memorialize what is an understanding mutually agreed to about how we would handle the things I had earned for my children is to be reacting emotionally based on stereotypes about what motivates people enter into prenuptial agreements.

I am curious - do you have the same objection to a spouse whose will is clear pre-marriage that their property was to go to their children, who does not amend that will after marriage to include a devise to their spouse? If so, why? If not, why not?

Last edited by Dekka's Angel; Dec 17th 2003 at 7:27 pm.
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Old Dec 17th 2003, 7:39 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Should I get a pre-nup?

Originally posted by Dekka's Angel
I don't disagree with you about far too many people divorcing too quickly these days without putting in the hard work of marriage. So that's not a controversial thought to me personally.

However, I have three children I have worked all my adult life for and everything I had when I married, I had because someday I wished to leave it for them. Much as I love my husband and I do, certain things (my house, most significantly) belong to them. Period. To say that somehow I am planning for divorce just because I took the time to memorialize what is an understanding mutually agreed to about how we would handle the things I had earned for my children is to be reacting emotionally based on stereotypes about what motivates people enter into prenuptial agreements.

I am curious - do you have the same objection to a spouse whose will is clear pre-marriage that their property was to go to their children, who does not amend that will after marriage to include a devise to their spouse? If so, why? If not, why not?

Dekka,

Well I should say that I am a product of a bad marriage and a divorce (so I am the pot calling the kettle black in terms of getting divorces... but hey, you live and learn I guess)... so I think all the comments here are true to an extent. I jumped WAY too quickly into marriage before really thinking about my relationship... and it turned into a bad result. But the way society is now, everything is very selfish (not necessarily meaning the pre-nup), but everybody thinks about what they have, what they want, what they are not getting, versus thinking as a couple. I think that is wherein lies that problem with marriage. Women working might have something to do with it as well... but like I said, everything has added up to every one of us thinking too much about ourselves and not realizing that we have to think as a partner too, and many times over your own wants and or needs. Too many people look only matters to them. Make sense?

As for your question... I truly believe that what you bring into the marriage is yours after the marriage. For the most part that is how everything was split up from my first marriage. I don't need a pre-nup to tell me that. In Canada however, once you live in a house together as your primary dwelling, that house is legally shared... I don't think a pre-nup can even get around that (second homes are no issue)... so unless you both agree to something different, the courts will tell you to split it 50-50. Anyways, like I said, I believe in what yours is yours if it went really bad.

Cheers,
Sean
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Old Dec 17th 2003, 7:39 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: Should I get a pre-nup?

Originally posted by majken
Folks just didn't "get over it" back then because of the social stigma.
The earning capacity was definitely one of them.

And for a lot of the wealthier people, they were the favorites and lovers and so on, which were more or less socially accepted especially for men [cf 19th century literature. There are a lot of examples!]....

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Old Dec 17th 2003, 7:52 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: Should I get a pre-nup?

Originally posted by majken
My husband and I have a prenup. Intellectually, I agreed that it was a good idea. Emotionally (I'm the foreign spouse) it took me a while to warm up to it.

Our prenup basically states that whatever wealth/property accumulated prior to marriage belongs to the spouse who owned it. It can also protect the wealthier spouse in case of a divorce; for example, whatever my husband earns from his practice belongs to him. We also stipulated that there is no alimony in case of a divorce (that applies to both of us). On the other hand, I am protected from my husband's business debts. If we never get a divorce, the prenup is moot, and the will supersedes the prenup.

The most difficult part is probably convincing your bride that it is a good idea. It's hard to contemplate what happens in case of a divorce when you haven't even married yet, especially to women (it's supposed to be romantic, and prenups aren't).

What a friend of mine did, after his bride blew up when he brought up the topic, was register his house in his own name (he was still paying mortgage - and I'm not sure what he did to "register" it). If you keep all the properties accumulated before you marry under your name, I think it should be all right. The problem we can see with what he did is that if he sells his house (after the wedding) then buys a new one, then the new house becomes community property. I think it gets pretty complicated from there. Some of the lawyers here should be able to explain it better.

P.S. By the way, the correct spelling is "Filipina".
I guess it depends on the culture. In France, there are 3 standard marriage "regimen" [everything is 50-50; everything after marriage is 50-50, but separate before marriage with all the rules for houses and so on laid out; everything remains separate] and you pick one out before you get married. Default one is everything 50-50 and everything separate before marriage. You can also have a pre-nup, which is called a "marriage contract". IMO, it sounds a whole lot different than a pre-nup.

Actually, when you buy a marriage magazine in France, it is one of the topic that is mentioned as stuff you have to think about along with what to pick for your flower girls and the best gowns in town. It is very standard to get a "marriage contract" and non confrontational, it is part of the organization of the wedding to choose which "regimen" you want to fall under. NB: you don't go to a family lawyer for this, but to a "notaire", the same person who registers the wills, etc.

FYI, in France, most people have a "marriage contract" of some kind and the divorce rate is 30%.

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Old Dec 17th 2003, 7:59 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Should I get a pre-nup?

NB: An interesting observation about the divorce rate. When we got married in Michigan, we got a bunch of statistics. The divorce rate where we got married was huge, like 60% or something like that. But, then, there was another statistics: 30% of the people who were in a first marriage divorced, and a very big percentage (don't remember) came from people who had already been married one or more times.

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Old Dec 17th 2003, 10:08 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: Should I get a pre-nup?

Ok here's a question. I have 2 children from a prior marriage. Without a pre-nup but WITH a will, wouldn't my children be taken care of? I could leave my house to them even when I'm remarried. I mean Steven wouldn't be able to mess with my will if it's signed and done right? Not that he would ever try to take from my kids cuz he's such a sweetie cutsie ootsie pie...but if he tried, the firm of Smith & Wesson would be getting a call from my grave
Does anyone have their number, just in case? LOLOL
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Old Dec 17th 2003, 10:12 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Should I get a pre-nup?

Originally posted by blenky16
Dekka,

Well I should say that I am a product of a bad marriage and a divorce (so I am the pot calling the kettle black in terms of getting divorces... but hey, you live and learn I guess)... so I think all the comments here are true to an extent. I jumped WAY too quickly into marriage before really thinking about my relationship... and it turned into a bad result. But the way society is now, everything is very selfish (not necessarily meaning the pre-nup), but everybody thinks about what they have, what they want, what they are not getting, versus thinking as a couple. I think that is wherein lies that problem with marriage. Women working might have something to do with it as well... but like I said, everything has added up to every one of us thinking too much about ourselves and not realizing that we have to think as a partner too, and many times over your own wants and or needs. Too many people look only matters to them. Make sense?

As for your question... I truly believe that what you bring into the marriage is yours after the marriage. For the most part that is how everything was split up from my first marriage. I don't need a pre-nup to tell me that. In Canada however, once you live in a house together as your primary dwelling, that house is legally shared... I don't think a pre-nup can even get around that (second homes are no issue)... so unless you both agree to something different, the courts will tell you to split it 50-50. Anyways, like I said, I believe in what yours is yours if it went really bad.

Cheers,
Sean

Interesting. So you could buy a house, pay the mortgage 20 years and have only 5 years left to pay, get married, the spouse moves in, after one day you row, they walk out, it turns nasty. Next thing you know you have to give 'em half your house? Fun!
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Old Dec 17th 2003, 10:36 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: Should I get a pre-nup?

In article <[email protected]>, Caro <member5109@brit
ish_expats.com> writes
    >NB: An interesting observation about the divorce rate. When we got
    > married in Michigan, we got a bunch of statistics. The divorce rate
    > where we got married was huge, like 60% or something like that. But,
    > then, there was another statistics: 30% of the people who were in a
    > first marriage divorced, and a very big percentage (don't remember)
    > came from people who had already been married one or more times.

Statistics, statistics! I once read that most accidents happen in the
home. So I re-located


--
squire
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. (Groucho)
 

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