A short answer for those inquiring about AOS as a tourist
Feb 4th 2003, 9:42 am
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A short answer for those inquiring about AOS as a tourist
"jeninifer" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My question was/is: "What information, if any, do you require from a
> would-be client to prove to you, as an attorney, that they entered the
> US with no intent to marry."
> Or, do you not accept the case of a client that wishes to marry on a
> Visa Waiver (without predetermined intentions) and apply for AOS?
He DID answer your question. Very clearly. Read his reply again.
Perhaps you didn't notice his reply, because you don't understand the issues
involved in tourist visa AOS.
Paulgani
news:[email protected]...
> My question was/is: "What information, if any, do you require from a
> would-be client to prove to you, as an attorney, that they entered the
> US with no intent to marry."
> Or, do you not accept the case of a client that wishes to marry on a
> Visa Waiver (without predetermined intentions) and apply for AOS?
He DID answer your question. Very clearly. Read his reply again.
Perhaps you didn't notice his reply, because you don't understand the issues
involved in tourist visa AOS.
Paulgani
Feb 4th 2003, 10:50 am
#17
Banned
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: United States
Posts: 3,825
Re: A short answer for those inquiring about AOS as a tourist
Originally posted by jeninifer
Mr. Udall,
What do you require from clients, before you agree to represent them, to prove to you that there was no intent or plans to wed upon entering the U.S. on a Visa Waiver.
Seeing as you feel so strongly about the situation, I would assume that you have a standard procedure that you follow when such a case arises.
Or, perhaps, you don't represent people in this situation at all.
I'm not being cheeky, I truly am curious about your modus operandi.
I welcome answers from other attorneys, as well.
Mr. Udall,
What do you require from clients, before you agree to represent them, to prove to you that there was no intent or plans to wed upon entering the U.S. on a Visa Waiver.
Seeing as you feel so strongly about the situation, I would assume that you have a standard procedure that you follow when such a case arises.
Or, perhaps, you don't represent people in this situation at all.
I'm not being cheeky, I truly am curious about your modus operandi.
I welcome answers from other attorneys, as well.
As I mentioned in other parts of the recent discussion, I believe there is much confusion when it comes to some in the group as to the law, or at least the types of analysis (or perhaps advice to give) for someone who is “outside� the U.S. asking if they can immigrate using a nonimmigrant option, and one who is already “within� the U.S. who happened to enter with a nonimmigrant option. They are two “completely� different situations, requiring two completely different approaches when it comes to giving advice.
As far as my advice that I give to people outside the U.S., I just gave an example of the phone call I took from a young man around 3 months ago. He eventually cursed me out and slammed down the phone when I kept pointing out to him that what his fiancée was planning to do was the commission of an illegal act at the POE, and that I could not recommend they take that risk or commit that illegal act (It’s spelled lawyer, not liar, and I did not go to law school help people lie, cheat of break the law).
Now my reply to you cannot possibly go over every single thing that I can think of that I might say to a client, or situations that I might need to examine with a client who is already “within� the U.S. (and who is just now contacting me for the first time), however as far as the “preconceived intent issue� goes that you asked about, I will also recommend to you that you refer to Paul and Folinskyinla’s discussion of the case law in this regard.
I also do the “smell test� (as its often called by other attorneys), to see if this case stinks of marriage fraud. I’m pretty good at spotting cases where one friend is simply helping another friend to try to get a greencard, and of course, I would decline helping a couple do that (For ethical reasons, and I don’t want to throw away my career for a few hundred dollar case). In a related issue, some people who come to see an attorney lie to that attorney. That does happen form time to time and the wise practitioner is on the lookout for that and will decline a case when a reasonable attorney would assume he or she is being lied to about key issues or information.
Other questions I typically have for a person already within the U.S. are: What type of visa did you use to enter the U.S? (And lets assume the answer was a tourist visa). So an INS officer inspected you? How long was your period of authorized stay that was given to you by the officer (and I would give warnings about the accrual of certain amounts of unlawful presence, and even mention the advanced parole sub issue for the unlawful presence). What was asked of you, and what did you say to the INS officer at the POE? Tell me about other visits you might have made before this recent entry (and I would want to get most of the same information about those prior visits and when those visits occurred)?
If the person entered with a tourist visa, I think “very� important things to ask are: What was the date that you went to the U.S. Consulate and applied for your tourist visa? What was the date you became engaged to your U.S. citizen fiancée?
A person applying for a tourist visa will need to fill out an OF-156 (most of the posts are using the newly renamed version, the DS-156) with the consulate, and right on that form it asks if one has a spouse or fiancée in the U.S.
The posts keep those forms, and if an INS officer at an AOS interview was suspicious that a fiancée or spouse was not listed on the form, he or she could contact the post and have the post supply the international spouse’s OF-156 to see if the international spouse had been honest with the post when executing the OF-156.
Last edited by Matthew Udall; Feb 4th 2003 at 10:55 am.
Feb 4th 2003, 10:58 am
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A short answer for those inquiring about AOS as a tourist
"Targaff" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> There is no way whatsoever that that can be misinterpreted as meaning
> that a K1 fiance *who married within 90 days* is *not* eligible to file
> adjustment of status, even if their authorized stay expired. In fact, it
> serves more to confirm that a K1 who has married but let that K1 status
> lapse is perfectly entitled to apply for AOS.
You are completely missing the point. Of course they are eligible to AOS,
even if they did not file within 90 days or 90 years for that matter.
However, it does not change the fact that the K-1 entry is only good for 90
days, and on the 91st day you are in the U.S. unlawfully. YES, you can
still AOS, but YES, you are here unlawfully (and can be deported) until the
day you DO file for AOS.
Paulgani
news:[email protected]...
> There is no way whatsoever that that can be misinterpreted as meaning
> that a K1 fiance *who married within 90 days* is *not* eligible to file
> adjustment of status, even if their authorized stay expired. In fact, it
> serves more to confirm that a K1 who has married but let that K1 status
> lapse is perfectly entitled to apply for AOS.
You are completely missing the point. Of course they are eligible to AOS,
even if they did not file within 90 days or 90 years for that matter.
However, it does not change the fact that the K-1 entry is only good for 90
days, and on the 91st day you are in the U.S. unlawfully. YES, you can
still AOS, but YES, you are here unlawfully (and can be deported) until the
day you DO file for AOS.
Paulgani
Feb 4th 2003, 12:08 pm
#19
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Re: A short answer for those inquiring about AOS as a tourist
Originally posted by Matthew Udall
A person applying for a tourist visa will need to fill out an OF-156 (most of the posts are using the newly renamed version, the DS-156) with the consulate, and right on that form it asks if one has a spouse or fiancée in the U.S.
The posts keep those forms, and if an INS officer at an AOS interview was suspicious that a fiancée or spouse was not listed on the form, he or she could contact the post and have the post supply the international spouse’s OF-156 to see if the international spouse had been honest with the post when executing the OF-156.
A person applying for a tourist visa will need to fill out an OF-156 (most of the posts are using the newly renamed version, the DS-156) with the consulate, and right on that form it asks if one has a spouse or fiancée in the U.S.
The posts keep those forms, and if an INS officer at an AOS interview was suspicious that a fiancée or spouse was not listed on the form, he or she could contact the post and have the post supply the international spouse’s OF-156 to see if the international spouse had been honest with the post when executing the OF-156.
At the November AILA California Chapters Conference in Monterey, it was mentioned that the retention times for old OF-156/DS-156 has been altered -- they are now to be kept INDEFINATELY. Also, apparently, there is a move afoot to scan them into a data base so that INS officers at POE's can examine them at time of entry.
Feb 4th 2003, 12:19 pm
#20
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Originally posted by Patrick
Hi Stuart and Matt,
I can't beleive the crap you put up with from half-wits who have been doing the visa process for 5 minutes and think they are all that about it.
If someone walked in my software test lab and (just because they have used software) started telling me how to test software (like these guys try and tell you your job) it would make there nose bleed.
To you who think they are better Immigration lawyers - no-one is going to tell you how to serve hamburgers so don't tell lawyers how to do there job.
Patrick
Hi Stuart and Matt,
I can't beleive the crap you put up with from half-wits who have been doing the visa process for 5 minutes and think they are all that about it.
If someone walked in my software test lab and (just because they have used software) started telling me how to test software (like these guys try and tell you your job) it would make there nose bleed.
To you who think they are better Immigration lawyers - no-one is going to tell you how to serve hamburgers so don't tell lawyers how to do there job.
Patrick
Hi Patrick:
It pays to remember that immigration lawyers put up with crap from the INS all the time AND we have to remember that "oil gets you more than vinegar". [I used to practice with my brother -- every so often, he would come into my office, close the door, say, "Excuse me" and proceed to bang his head once against the door, say "thanks for listening" and leave.]
I often feel a little bit of sympathy for the INS trial attorneys in Immigration Court and the AUSA's in District Court -- THEY are the ones with the "client from Hell" and will often admit it over a drink.
That said, I recently had the Trial Attorney from Hell, where in open court, I asked "May I inquire as to what State Bar you are addmitted to?" The Immigration Judge saw me a week later at a social function and asked me "what the hell was that about?" and I answered "Ira, Elena needed that." I didn't tell him that I had consulted with my ethics guru [I pay Erica a $100 every so often when an ethical dilemma comes up] who was of the opinion that Elena would be in big trouble with her home bar if I reported the stunt she had pulled.
So, Patrick, questions from laypeople are a peice of cake.
Feb 4th 2003, 1:20 pm
#21
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Re: A short answer for those inquiring about AOS as a tourist
Originally posted by Matthew Udall
I also do the “smell test� (as its often called by other attorneys), to see if this case stinks of marriage fraud. I’m pretty good at spotting cases where one friend is simply helping another friend to try to get a greencard, and of course, I would decline helping a couple do that (For ethical reasons, and I don’t want to throw away my career for a few hundred dollar case). In a related issue, some people who come to see an attorney lie to that attorney. That does happen form time to time and the wise practitioner is on the lookout for that and will decline a case when a reasonable attorney would assume he or she is being lied to about key issues or information.
I also do the “smell test� (as its often called by other attorneys), to see if this case stinks of marriage fraud. I’m pretty good at spotting cases where one friend is simply helping another friend to try to get a greencard, and of course, I would decline helping a couple do that (For ethical reasons, and I don’t want to throw away my career for a few hundred dollar case). In a related issue, some people who come to see an attorney lie to that attorney. That does happen form time to time and the wise practitioner is on the lookout for that and will decline a case when a reasonable attorney would assume he or she is being lied to about key issues or information.
In exercising my sense of smell, I also insist on seeing the spouses together.
This is one I've learned from experience. In the early 80's, I got a string of marriage cases all referred by the same source. Being much younger then, my sense of smell wasn't as well developed.
One day, ALL of these cases were called in for interview, not by DIEXM, but by DINV. In the course of this, I discovered that there were 3 other top-notch immigration attorneys with similar cases and we compared notes and spotted the pattern. [The I-864 today would make this particular pattern impossible to pull off, but I digress]
Of course, the mere invitations improved my sense of smell considerably and the US citizen spouses withdrew the petitions in about 1/2 the cases. [I avoided a conflict of interest by pointing out that under the law at that time, only SUCCESSFUL immigration fraud was a bar to the alien and the US spouse faced criminal prosecution].
In one of the case, the couple insisted on going through with it -- and it became apparent quite readily that the marriage was fraudulent as the interview progressed. I was compelled to say in front of the investigator that "In front of Mr. Lasack here, I wear my advocate hat. In my office, I wear my advisory hat. I am not allowed to wear my advisory hat in front of Mr. Lasack. Please come to my office at 3 pm. We have to talk."
Mr. Lasack would have been well within his rights to arrest the couple then and there -- but, much to my surprise, he simply said "Listen to your attorney and make sure you make that appointment."
Of course, another couple insisted on going through with the interview and Mr. Lasack asked the US petitioner, who was originally from Brazil -- "Did you and your husband consumate your relationship before you married?" Client goes "huh?" and Mr. Lasack repeats the question. Now I knew that Mr. Lasack was trying quite hard to avoid the national "Stokes" injunction which governs INS marriage fraud interivews [to this day BTW]. But the injunction didn't apply to ME, so I interrupted "he wants to know if you had sex with your husband before you got married?" Client smiles with a dreamy look on her face and says ever so sweetly "Yes, many times, do you want to know how many?"
The look on Mr. Lasack's face was priceless and the case was approved.
Feb 5th 2003, 12:37 am
#22
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 281
Re: A short answer for those inquiring about AOS as a tourist
Originally posted by Matthew Udall
Hi Jennifer,
As I mentioned in other parts of the recent discussion, I believe there is much confusion when it comes to some in the group as to the law, or at least the types of analysis (or perhaps advice to give) for someone who is “outside� the U.S. asking if they can immigrate using a nonimmigrant option, and one who is already “within� the U.S. who happened to enter with a nonimmigrant option. They are two “completely� different situations, requiring two completely different approaches when it comes to giving advice.
As far as my advice that I give to people outside the U.S., I just gave an example of the phone call I took from a young man around 3 months ago. He eventually cursed me out and slammed down the phone when I kept pointing out to him that what his fiancée was planning to do was the commission of an illegal act at the POE, and that I could not recommend they take that risk or commit that illegal act (It’s spelled lawyer, not liar, and I did not go to law school help people lie, cheat of break the law).
Now my reply to you cannot possibly go over every single thing that I can think of that I might say to a client, or situations that I might need to examine with a client who is already “within� the U.S. (and who is just now contacting me for the first time), however as far as the “preconceived intent issue� goes that you asked about, I will also recommend to you that you refer to Paul and Folinskyinla’s discussion of the case law in this regard.
I also do the “smell test� (as its often called by other attorneys), to see if this case stinks of marriage fraud. I’m pretty good at spotting cases where one friend is simply helping another friend to try to get a greencard, and of course, I would decline helping a couple do that (For ethical reasons, and I don’t want to throw away my career for a few hundred dollar case). In a related issue, some people who come to see an attorney lie to that attorney. That does happen form time to time and the wise practitioner is on the lookout for that and will decline a case when a reasonable attorney would assume he or she is being lied to about key issues or information.
Other questions I typically have for a person already within the U.S. are: What type of visa did you use to enter the U.S? (And lets assume the answer was a tourist visa). So an INS officer inspected you? How long was your period of authorized stay that was given to you by the officer (and I would give warnings about the accrual of certain amounts of unlawful presence, and even mention the advanced parole sub issue for the unlawful presence). What was asked of you, and what did you say to the INS officer at the POE? Tell me about other visits you might have made before this recent entry (and I would want to get most of the same information about those prior visits and when those visits occurred)?
If the person entered with a tourist visa, I think “very� important things to ask are: What was the date that you went to the U.S. Consulate and applied for your tourist visa? What was the date you became engaged to your U.S. citizen fiancée?
A person applying for a tourist visa will need to fill out an OF-156 (most of the posts are using the newly renamed version, the DS-156) with the consulate, and right on that form it asks if one has a spouse or fiancée in the U.S.
The posts keep those forms, and if an INS officer at an AOS interview was suspicious that a fiancée or spouse was not listed on the form, he or she could contact the post and have the post supply the international spouse’s OF-156 to see if the international spouse had been honest with the post when executing the OF-156.
Hi Jennifer,
As I mentioned in other parts of the recent discussion, I believe there is much confusion when it comes to some in the group as to the law, or at least the types of analysis (or perhaps advice to give) for someone who is “outside� the U.S. asking if they can immigrate using a nonimmigrant option, and one who is already “within� the U.S. who happened to enter with a nonimmigrant option. They are two “completely� different situations, requiring two completely different approaches when it comes to giving advice.
As far as my advice that I give to people outside the U.S., I just gave an example of the phone call I took from a young man around 3 months ago. He eventually cursed me out and slammed down the phone when I kept pointing out to him that what his fiancée was planning to do was the commission of an illegal act at the POE, and that I could not recommend they take that risk or commit that illegal act (It’s spelled lawyer, not liar, and I did not go to law school help people lie, cheat of break the law).
Now my reply to you cannot possibly go over every single thing that I can think of that I might say to a client, or situations that I might need to examine with a client who is already “within� the U.S. (and who is just now contacting me for the first time), however as far as the “preconceived intent issue� goes that you asked about, I will also recommend to you that you refer to Paul and Folinskyinla’s discussion of the case law in this regard.
I also do the “smell test� (as its often called by other attorneys), to see if this case stinks of marriage fraud. I’m pretty good at spotting cases where one friend is simply helping another friend to try to get a greencard, and of course, I would decline helping a couple do that (For ethical reasons, and I don’t want to throw away my career for a few hundred dollar case). In a related issue, some people who come to see an attorney lie to that attorney. That does happen form time to time and the wise practitioner is on the lookout for that and will decline a case when a reasonable attorney would assume he or she is being lied to about key issues or information.
Other questions I typically have for a person already within the U.S. are: What type of visa did you use to enter the U.S? (And lets assume the answer was a tourist visa). So an INS officer inspected you? How long was your period of authorized stay that was given to you by the officer (and I would give warnings about the accrual of certain amounts of unlawful presence, and even mention the advanced parole sub issue for the unlawful presence). What was asked of you, and what did you say to the INS officer at the POE? Tell me about other visits you might have made before this recent entry (and I would want to get most of the same information about those prior visits and when those visits occurred)?
If the person entered with a tourist visa, I think “very� important things to ask are: What was the date that you went to the U.S. Consulate and applied for your tourist visa? What was the date you became engaged to your U.S. citizen fiancée?
A person applying for a tourist visa will need to fill out an OF-156 (most of the posts are using the newly renamed version, the DS-156) with the consulate, and right on that form it asks if one has a spouse or fiancée in the U.S.
The posts keep those forms, and if an INS officer at an AOS interview was suspicious that a fiancée or spouse was not listed on the form, he or she could contact the post and have the post supply the international spouse’s OF-156 to see if the international spouse had been honest with the post when executing the OF-156.
After my husband arrived for a visit and we decided to marry sooner rather than later we immediately tracked down an immigration attorney. It was our initial thought to race down to the Courthouse and marry immediately, however, upon contacting our would-be attorney she suggested we meet with her before marrying.
My guess now is that we were "sniffed," so to speak.
Your sample questions are very similar to ones our attorney asked and also to the questions we were asked during our AOS interview.
I appreciate you answering me without patronizing me.
Jennifer
Feb 5th 2003, 12:44 am
#23
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 281
Re: A short answer for those inquiring about AOS as a tourist
He DID answer your question. Very clearly. Read his reply again.
Perhaps you didn't notice his reply, because you don't understand the issues
involved in tourist visa AOS.
Paulgani
He did NOT answer my question. I read his reply over and over because one thing I have learned from this forum is that it's important to do that - to be clear on the issue.
Perhaps my question was misunderstood. Thankfully, Mr. Udall, was able to answer my question with no problem.
You're right, I don't understand everything regarding tourist visa AOS and I'll be the first person in line to admit that. I have a pretty fair grasp of it and my knowledge is growing by the post.
However, let me thank you for pointing out my flaws. That's just what this board needs more of.
Sincerely,
Jen
Feb 5th 2003, 2:46 am
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A short answer for those inquiring about AOS as a tourist
"jeninifer" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> He did NOT answer my question. I read his reply over and over because
> one thing I have learned from this forum is that it's important to do
> that - to be clear on the issue.
> Perhaps my question was misunderstood. Thankfully, Mr. Udall, was able
> to answer my question with no problem.
Mr. Folinsky answered your question. Mr. Udall did NOT.
Your question was:
> My question was/is: "What information, if any, do you require from a
> would-be client to prove to you, as an attorney, that they entered the
> US with no intent to marry."
Mr. Folinsky answered your question. He said:
> If a client comes in and tells me that she violated the immigration law
> the past and NOW wants me to assist them -- then I can do that.
In other words, be does NOT require the would-be client to prove that
they entered the U.S. with no intent to marry. He is fully willing to
accept
any such client who broke the law by entering with intent.
On the other hand, Mr. Udall's theoretical questions to the client have
NOTHING to do with inquiring about their intent. His questions are to
ascertain a single fact: Did the client at any time make a "material
misrepresentation" to the CO or the INS? He, like Mr. Folinsky, does not
care about the client's original intent, AFTER they have already arrived
in the U.S. Both know that the client's intent is NOT a bar to AOS.
However,
if the client had lied at any time, that IS a bar to AOS.
Paulgani
news:[email protected]...
> He did NOT answer my question. I read his reply over and over because
> one thing I have learned from this forum is that it's important to do
> that - to be clear on the issue.
> Perhaps my question was misunderstood. Thankfully, Mr. Udall, was able
> to answer my question with no problem.
Mr. Folinsky answered your question. Mr. Udall did NOT.
Your question was:
> My question was/is: "What information, if any, do you require from a
> would-be client to prove to you, as an attorney, that they entered the
> US with no intent to marry."
Mr. Folinsky answered your question. He said:
> If a client comes in and tells me that she violated the immigration law
> the past and NOW wants me to assist them -- then I can do that.
In other words, be does NOT require the would-be client to prove that
they entered the U.S. with no intent to marry. He is fully willing to
accept
any such client who broke the law by entering with intent.
On the other hand, Mr. Udall's theoretical questions to the client have
NOTHING to do with inquiring about their intent. His questions are to
ascertain a single fact: Did the client at any time make a "material
misrepresentation" to the CO or the INS? He, like Mr. Folinsky, does not
care about the client's original intent, AFTER they have already arrived
in the U.S. Both know that the client's intent is NOT a bar to AOS.
However,
if the client had lied at any time, that IS a bar to AOS.
Paulgani
Feb 5th 2003, 3:23 am
#25
Banned
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,933
Re: A short answer for those inquiring about AOS as a tourist
Originally posted by Paulgani
"jeninifer" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> He did NOT answer my question. I read his reply over and over because
> one thing I have learned from this forum is that it's important to do
> that - to be clear on the issue.
> Perhaps my question was misunderstood. Thankfully, Mr. Udall, was able
> to answer my question with no problem.
Mr. Folinsky answered your question. Mr. Udall did NOT.
Your question was:
> My question was/is: "What information, if any, do you require from a
> would-be client to prove to you, as an attorney, that they entered the
> US with no intent to marry."
Mr. Folinsky answered your question. He said:
> If a client comes in and tells me that she violated the immigration law
> the past and NOW wants me to assist them -- then I can do that.
In other words, be does NOT require the would-be client to prove that
they entered the U.S. with no intent to marry. He is fully willing to
accept
any such client who broke the law by entering with intent.
On the other hand, Mr. Udall's theoretical questions to the client have
NOTHING to do with inquiring about their intent. His questions are to
ascertain a single fact: Did the client at any time make a "material
misrepresentation" to the CO or the INS? He, like Mr. Folinsky, does not
care about the client's original intent, AFTER they have already arrived
in the U.S. Both know that the client's intent is NOT a bar to AOS.
However,
if the client had lied at any time, that IS a bar to AOS.
Paulgani
"jeninifer" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> He did NOT answer my question. I read his reply over and over because
> one thing I have learned from this forum is that it's important to do
> that - to be clear on the issue.
> Perhaps my question was misunderstood. Thankfully, Mr. Udall, was able
> to answer my question with no problem.
Mr. Folinsky answered your question. Mr. Udall did NOT.
Your question was:
> My question was/is: "What information, if any, do you require from a
> would-be client to prove to you, as an attorney, that they entered the
> US with no intent to marry."
Mr. Folinsky answered your question. He said:
> If a client comes in and tells me that she violated the immigration law
> the past and NOW wants me to assist them -- then I can do that.
In other words, be does NOT require the would-be client to prove that
they entered the U.S. with no intent to marry. He is fully willing to
accept
any such client who broke the law by entering with intent.
On the other hand, Mr. Udall's theoretical questions to the client have
NOTHING to do with inquiring about their intent. His questions are to
ascertain a single fact: Did the client at any time make a "material
misrepresentation" to the CO or the INS? He, like Mr. Folinsky, does not
care about the client's original intent, AFTER they have already arrived
in the U.S. Both know that the client's intent is NOT a bar to AOS.
However,
if the client had lied at any time, that IS a bar to AOS.
Paulgani
Feb 5th 2003, 6:21 am
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A short answer for those inquiring about AOS as a tourist
"Ranjini" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jen has left the forum, Paul. Obviously she does not have the stomach
> for got goes on here from time to time. And I must say that there are
> times when I feel like she does.... and think it's sheer lunacy that
> makes come back for more...
I think that expression "if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the
kitchen" applies very well to any discussion about tourist visa AOS in this
newsgroup.
Paulgani
news:[email protected]...
> Jen has left the forum, Paul. Obviously she does not have the stomach
> for got goes on here from time to time. And I must say that there are
> times when I feel like she does.... and think it's sheer lunacy that
> makes come back for more...
I think that expression "if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the
kitchen" applies very well to any discussion about tourist visa AOS in this
newsgroup.
Paulgani
Feb 5th 2003, 6:47 am
#27
Banned
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,933
Re: A short answer for those inquiring about AOS as a tourist
Originally posted by Paulgani
I think that expression "if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the
kitchen" applies very well to any discussion about tourist visa AOS in this
newsgroup.
Paulgani
I think that expression "if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the
kitchen" applies very well to any discussion about tourist visa AOS in this
newsgroup.
Paulgani
I guess I just need to re-inforce my armour plates, right now. Reminds of those games I see Ken and Shivan (my K2 son) play on the computer... Lol...
Feb 5th 2003, 7:03 am
#28
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2001
Location: Ohio
Posts: 659
Re: A short answer for those inquiring about AOS as a tourist
Originally posted by Paulgani
I think that expression "if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the
kitchen" applies very well to any discussion about tourist visa AOS in this
newsgroup.
Paulgani
I think that expression "if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the
kitchen" applies very well to any discussion about tourist visa AOS in this
newsgroup.
Paulgani
Guess I agree.....but at least if I'm in a hot kitchen I can open a window for some fresh cooling air......too bad that doesn't apply to Newsgroups.
Feb 5th 2003, 7:11 am
#29
Concierge
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 46,467
Re: A short answer for those inquiring about AOS as a tourist
Originally posted by stevelisaw
Guess I agree.....but at least if I'm in a hot kitchen I can open a window for some fresh cooling air......too bad that doesn't apply to Newsgroups.
Guess I agree.....but at least if I'm in a hot kitchen I can open a window for some fresh cooling air......too bad that doesn't apply to Newsgroups.
;-)
Rita
Feb 5th 2003, 8:25 am
#30
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 35,082
Re: A short answer for those inquiring about AOS as a tourist
Originally posted by Matthew Udall
<snip>
I recall a caller around 3 or 4 months ago who called with very similar questions. His fiancée had a tourist visa and he wanted me to basically tell him (confirm) that it was OK for her to enter, marry and file for AOS (he was just calling for information at this point).
I told him flat out that I could not advise his fiancée to commit an illegal act at the POE (I explained to him what the illegal act was), that I would not be doing them any favors by encouraging them to take this risk, and that there could be devastating consequences at the POE. He was not aware of this illegal act, nor do I think he really believed me or took it seriously as he mentioned over and over again how he's been told by others (even on news groups on the net) that what he was proposing happens all the time. Of course, there were "other" things we talked about too, but he got very upset with me every time I kept going back to the fact that what his fiancée would be doing would be an illegal act at the POE (and that he would be encouraging her to commit this illegal act at the POE). He got more and more argumentative saying it was no such thing, and he eventually blurted out a swear word and slammed down the phone. Guess I won't be doing their AOS ;-). He hung up on me (and of course I did not have his name or phone number to call him back) before I ever had the chance to discuss with him whether DCF was an option for them, or to discuss other options such as the fiancee visa or I-130/K-3.
<snip>
I recall a caller around 3 or 4 months ago who called with very similar questions. His fiancée had a tourist visa and he wanted me to basically tell him (confirm) that it was OK for her to enter, marry and file for AOS (he was just calling for information at this point).
I told him flat out that I could not advise his fiancée to commit an illegal act at the POE (I explained to him what the illegal act was), that I would not be doing them any favors by encouraging them to take this risk, and that there could be devastating consequences at the POE. He was not aware of this illegal act, nor do I think he really believed me or took it seriously as he mentioned over and over again how he's been told by others (even on news groups on the net) that what he was proposing happens all the time. Of course, there were "other" things we talked about too, but he got very upset with me every time I kept going back to the fact that what his fiancée would be doing would be an illegal act at the POE (and that he would be encouraging her to commit this illegal act at the POE). He got more and more argumentative saying it was no such thing, and he eventually blurted out a swear word and slammed down the phone. Guess I won't be doing their AOS ;-). He hung up on me (and of course I did not have his name or phone number to call him back) before I ever had the chance to discuss with him whether DCF was an option for them, or to discuss other options such as the fiancee visa or I-130/K-3.
I just think that the longer you focus on telling someone how wrong they are (and I'm running awfully close to that line myself, apologies), the quicker you'll run them off. And while that might be a worthy goal in your office (seriously, not all clients are clients we want), I don't think it tracks with the purpose of this NG. So perhaps our boilerplate answer should include the I-129/K3/DCF text too.
