Caro

Hello,

Well, I have moved from Detroit to San Francisco in May 2002. After a lot of struggle, my file arrived in San Francisco on October 16th 2002. I have filled out 8 changes of address forms so far (in Detroit in person in May, in San Francisco in person as well as by mail in June, September, October, November, and sent the AR-11 to Washington, DC, in LA where my file was at some point on the advise on one of the SF officer). On October 18th, I went in person to San Francisco to see if my file had arrived and was told that it had just arrived, but that my address had not be changed yet. I gave a change of address form to the officer and mailed one with return receipt the next day.

Today, I went to the INS office to check if my address had been changed and to renew my AP to catch 2 birds with the same stone. The officer took the AP after being a total pain and sent it "upstairs" [they told me last time that I could renew my AP in person and the "receptionist" didn't have any problem with it today, so I wanted to do that, as I had to check my address anyway. They did not mention anything of the effect that filing in person was only for emergency travel because I asked the question. After today, I think that the officer might not have informed me correctly, anyway, this is just an aside]. I asked the officer if he could check what my current address was in their computer. He told me he could only see "file transfer from Detroit". I know he could have checked on his computer, as several officers have done that before when my file was not in San Francisco yet, if he had wanted to. However, I suspect that they have not changed my address yet as it is just showing in their database that they have the file but nothing else. I could go back tomorrow but I am sick of wasting so much time on this change of address.

So, my question: it has been almost 6 months since we have moved, do you think that I should contact my congressperson about this change of address business?

Anybody knows if the fact that I applied for an AP might get my file out of the dusty shelf and they might look into it and finally change my address? [I have heard enough that they HAD to have my file to do the AP, so I surely hope that they will use it!]

Also, I was fingerprinted in Detroit in February 2001 (9 months ago) and I submitted the medical with the original submission. Anybody knows how long these are valid?

Any suggestions welcomed!

Thanks,
Caroline

Caro

Anybody? Rete?

Thanks,
Caroline

Folinskyinla

Hi:

You are dealing with an "Article II" screw-up and you are asking if you should invoke "Article I" help.

Personally, I think its times to enlist some "Article III" asistance from a District Court Judge.

;-)

Caro

Thank you very much for your reply. May I ask what Article I,II,III are?

How does the District Court work? I have learned a lot about the US, but still discovering this part...

Thanks,
Caroline

Folinskyinla

Hi:

My apologies, I sometimes get a little pedantic at night. ;-)

In layman's terms and an American colloguialism: sue the bastards!

When you do that, the Government has 60 days to file an asnwer to the complaint. Quite often, INS will try to "moot" the case by simply acting on the application. The courts will not interfere in the actual decision, but they CAN force the INS to actually act. [BTW, you can "win" such a lawsuit if INS denies the application].

My references to the Articles was to the U.S. Constitution -- Article I is the legislature, Article II is the executive branch [Dubya and his minions] and Article III is the judiciary.

In the very early case of Marbury v Madison, the Supreme Court took upon itself the power to declare the acts of Congress and the Executive to be void as in violation of the constitution. Curiously enough, this has been accepted in the U.S. and no one realizes how truly exceptional this is.

Rete

Caro

Your post reminds me so much of what another poster went through attempting to get her file transferred from NYC INS to Las Vegas.

Yes, by all means, avail yourself of your local representative's INS liaison. It's been 6 months and everything should have been taken care of already. Yes, your filing for the renewal of the AP might work but at this point I would not count on it.

Not going to hurt involve the politican's INS department.

Rete

Caro

Thanks for your reply. I had gotten the idea that you were advising me to sue the INS. We are kind of reluctant to do that, as both of us are working as researchers for national laboratories, my husband is waiting for his security clearance and therefore, we would prefer to find a "pacific" solution, if possible. At least, we will try and if it comes down to suing them, then we might do it...

Thanks Rete. I remember reading that post as I was searching the newsgroup for file transfer experience, and also very clearly remember hoping not to be in the same situation. Well, so much for that last part!

So, here is an update of what I have done this morning. I went to the congresswoman's office. We already met with her staff 2 months ago when the INS was bouncing us around with our file in LA. She looked into the file transfer from LA to Detroit, and our file ended up in the right INS office. She told me that the INS told her back at the beginning of October that they would make the change of address shortly. Well, I had news for her! So, she told me she would look into it and try to make the change of address herself for us. So, we will see how it goes this time...

Anyway, I will have to go to the INS office again to pick up my advance parole and renew my EAD, so I can check if they finally changed our address at the same time.

Thanks,
Caroline

PS: Here is a good one about moving during AOS. I called the Detroit INS to check on the transfer after about 2 months, and the officer told me that the file was still in Detroit and the address was still the old one. Then, she started being very unpleasant and telling me that I was doing this to myself and to my file. It was my own fault for moving and so on... So, it tells a lot about the concerns of the INS with regards to promptly changing your address after you move!

Matthew Udall

Tell me about it. Sometimes change of address work can be problematic, even when the file does not need to be transferred from one INS office to another, and even more still when it "does" need to be transferred from one INS office to another (As a side OT issue, “BCIS� just doesn’t have that same nice ring to it like “INS� does, don't you agree?)

I've had many clients move while their AOS cases were pending at a District or Suboffice. Sometimes the INS gets it right the first time, and sometimes it takes a lot of effort to get the new address registered into the system (and the file transferred).

I have an AOS transfer situation going on right now. Transferring AOS case from Santa Ana (west coast INS office) to the West Palm Beach, FL. office.

Now, add to this the fact that the INS just had their opening ceremony for a new location of the West Palm Beach INS office (so "they" have a new address too :-).

Between letters to both INS offices, phone calls to Santa Ana (once I tracked that new number down from my AILA Chapter President at one of our local chapter meetings), and phone calls to AILA members in the West Palm Beach area (to get the scoop on the new office and contact information for that office), I've probably spent around 4 hours making sure this is done right (and there is still more time to put in). I charge $150.00 when my clients want me to do their change of address work for them. All my clients do is sign on the dotted line on the forms and letters I create for them, and I do all the follow up work. Do you think this client got a good deal? (Most of the time, I spend around 2 hours doing typical change of address work, but this time its taking more time due to the fact I’m transferring the file to an INS office that has just moved).

Would you have paid your attorney $150.00 to take over this hassle for you, Caroline (and I know, I’m talking about a luxury here)?

M.U.

DCMark

Matt:

Please explain what problems can arise just by moving within an office's jurisdiction. For example, moving (litterally) 1/2 mile away? Thanks

Caro

If you ask me now, I would say that yes I would have gladly paid $150 to have the file transferred and our address changed. If you had asked me in May, I would probably have said no as the Detroit office had been very "professional" and everything went without a hitch exactly in the timeline they gave us on our first trip there.

Caroline

Rete

I'm not Matt but one of the problems is if the USPS does not forward the mail to you, either because of their ineptness or a lack of forwarding instructions. Returned mail from the INS could be your fingerprint appointment, notice of appointment for interview, etc. In the case of a missed appointment, INS could deem your petition abandoned.

I'm sure Matt can expand on more problems that could arise.

Rete

Matthew Udall

How about them not getting the new address in the system? They could send important appointment letters to the old address (such as a letter to come in to process a work card, fingerprinting notice or even a greencard interview notice) that might never arrive. A person who has their AOS denied due to failure to show up at the interview will likely be successful in their motion to reopen, but that seems like a hassle to me when it could likely all be avoided in the first place.

When there is an attorney of record with a case, the INS usually (at least they do in my cases) sends these letters to "both" the client "and" the attorney.

Whenever I receive some kind of appointment letter, I contact my client to make sure they too received it, and that they are aware of the time and place for the interview. If they did not receive the letter yet, I make a copy for the file and mail the original letter to them. This provides a nice little safety net for the client, which is not always needed but comes in handy when it is needed (INS Screws Up).

Heck, I once had an AOS appointment letter show up for a couple who were out of the country for a long vacation, who would not have known about the appointment and would have missed it. I had no way to contact them. I became proactive and had to act for my client in a way that I think was reasonable to assume that they would want me to act... namely contact INS for them to explain the situation and have them reschedule the AOS interview.

It’s the follow up work with an INS office that an attorney can do for a client that I believe is one of the nicest things an attorney brings to a case, and has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with filling out someone's forms for them. Sometimes, all it takes from me is a simple phone call or letter to resolve an issue (not always [sometimes it takes even more follow up work than that], but that is quite often the case).

Regards,
Matthew Udall
Attorney
http://members.aol.com/MDUdall/fiancee.htm

Matthew Udall

And that's the rub.... nobody, myself included, starts a case saying, "man, I'll bet the INS is really going to screw up "my" case" (I think people instead assume the opposite). At the beginning, there is no way to know what sort of future INS screw ups might happen.

I generally don't jump into the middle of a do-it-yourselfer's case (for what I think are a variety of good reasons), so when I get contacted to see if I'm willing to try to fix an INS screw up for a non-client, I generally decline (again, for what I think are a variety of good reasons).

But if the INS or Consulate screws up in one of "my" cases, I'm usually on them like white on rice :-). I see it said over and over again (by non-attorneys) that all an attorney is going to do is fill out forms for you. That “is� part of the job, but only a small part of any immigration case, and intervening when the INS or Consulate screws can be very helpful to the client even if the client did not have a criminal record, or the other similar things the non-attorneys preach about when they tell people an attorney can only be useful for these types of clients).

M.U.

Caro

Actually, when we started, we assumed that we would be taking a trip through hell, because we figured that the INS doesn't know any better than screwing up their files. I prefer to call it realism reather than pessimism, and it presents the advantage of never been too dissapointed. It is kind of like a computer, never assume that it will restart once you shut it down.

But, when we filed, we were full-time students, we had time and flexible schedules but we didn't have that much money. We have what seems to us a straightforward case (no criminal records, no illegal presence in the US, no prior marriages, same age, "regular" dating, ...), and we did not plan on moving (we figured Detroit surroundings would be, jobwise, a good place to be for two mechanical engineers). So, given all the parameters at this time, it did not make sense to hire an attorney for whom we would not even have any type of recommendation (they are bad apples in any type of profession).

Well, anyway, I hope that I will finally get this address changed!

Caroline

Matthew Udall

Hi Rita,
I don't see it "that" often, but I could swear that I've received mail from INS to my office, and on the envelope is printed something to the effect of, "Return to sender if not deliverable - Do not forward". Again, I don't see it that often, but I know I've seen it on some INS envelopes. So even with a change of address notice given to your post office, there "might" be situations where the post office is instructed not to forward your INS mail even when the post office knows your forwarding address.

Fortunately I don't see this sort of thing on INS envelopes that often. Talk about turning a difficult situation into a nightmare situation!

M.U.