Ridiculous Attorney fees?
Nov 17th 2002, 11:34 am
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Ridiculous Attorney fees?
FreedomTrail wrote:
> You lost of all your credibility with "credibulity".
Whoops! I knew I should have let that spell checker finish checking my post.
> Have you spent much time in Washington?
Irrelevent.
> Without saying too much, I have spent enough time behind the scenes in
> DC to be able to know quite a bit through firsthand experience. What
> are your political credentials?
Irrelevent.
> Do you deny that most of congress and the senate is composed of lawyers?
So what?
> Or are you denying that they hardly ever do anything that doesn't
> serve them.
No I'm saying that you have not proven your assertion.
> How about that big raise they gave themselves at the last minute a few
> years ago, so it couldn't be debated, just before break, and right at
> a time when they were having to keep issuing stopgap measures to keep
> the government running when it was out of appropriations? Why do you
> suppose they did it like that?
What does raises have to do with your assertions?
> I can list quite a few more examples to prove my point, not for all
> cases, but for a majority of the most important cases.
You can start any time now. But indirect accusations of what you believe
to be happening will not be considered proof by any means to me.
> I'm not saying that there are no honest men and women in Washington, I
> am just saying that in most cases, influence is controlled by those
> with money.
Please show proof.
> Why don't we have campaign reform yet?
Proof does not consist of making an accusation then asking a
hypothetical question.
> Why do politicians fight that and controlling PACs?
I don't know. You tell me. Better yet give me proof.
> Why have we no tort reform? Why are there no caps on attorney's fees
> or executive perks?
Why do people present such weak, loosely associate accusations, with
little or no proof or data to back up anything, then posulate their
conspiracy theories as incontroverable evidence that there is wrong
doing and expect others to buy into that?!? (Answer: Because a lot of
people do. Then again I heard that Ms. Cleo is returning 1/2 billion
dollars to people because she's a fake. Who woulda thought! :-) )
> I argue that it's because it is those very people who are in charge
> who govern themselves until there is such an outcry they must do
> something else.
OK, that's your argument. Now where's your proof?
> We have the fox guarding the hen house, so while you can disagree, I
> have no idea how you can say it lacks credibility.
Simple, because it is merely a bunch of theories that you have and you
have yet to back up any of it with any real evidence. No evidence - no
credibility.
> You lost of all your credibility with "credibulity".
Whoops! I knew I should have let that spell checker finish checking my post.
> Have you spent much time in Washington?
Irrelevent.
> Without saying too much, I have spent enough time behind the scenes in
> DC to be able to know quite a bit through firsthand experience. What
> are your political credentials?
Irrelevent.
> Do you deny that most of congress and the senate is composed of lawyers?
So what?
> Or are you denying that they hardly ever do anything that doesn't
> serve them.
No I'm saying that you have not proven your assertion.
> How about that big raise they gave themselves at the last minute a few
> years ago, so it couldn't be debated, just before break, and right at
> a time when they were having to keep issuing stopgap measures to keep
> the government running when it was out of appropriations? Why do you
> suppose they did it like that?
What does raises have to do with your assertions?
> I can list quite a few more examples to prove my point, not for all
> cases, but for a majority of the most important cases.
You can start any time now. But indirect accusations of what you believe
to be happening will not be considered proof by any means to me.
> I'm not saying that there are no honest men and women in Washington, I
> am just saying that in most cases, influence is controlled by those
> with money.
Please show proof.
> Why don't we have campaign reform yet?
Proof does not consist of making an accusation then asking a
hypothetical question.
> Why do politicians fight that and controlling PACs?
I don't know. You tell me. Better yet give me proof.
> Why have we no tort reform? Why are there no caps on attorney's fees
> or executive perks?
Why do people present such weak, loosely associate accusations, with
little or no proof or data to back up anything, then posulate their
conspiracy theories as incontroverable evidence that there is wrong
doing and expect others to buy into that?!? (Answer: Because a lot of
people do. Then again I heard that Ms. Cleo is returning 1/2 billion
dollars to people because she's a fake. Who woulda thought! :-) )
> I argue that it's because it is those very people who are in charge
> who govern themselves until there is such an outcry they must do
> something else.
OK, that's your argument. Now where's your proof?
> We have the fox guarding the hen house, so while you can disagree, I
> have no idea how you can say it lacks credibility.
Simple, because it is merely a bunch of theories that you have and you
have yet to back up any of it with any real evidence. No evidence - no
credibility.
Nov 17th 2002, 11:42 am
#32
Concierge
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 46,474
Re: my view
I beg to differ with you strongly Julia. I happen to work as a legal sec/paralegal and I earn a very high salary for my skills. Attorneys can be shysters and ambulance chasers but these attorneys are not the norm and they are not in the majority either. As for completing the forms yourself, that is, of course, your choice. For others forms and dealing with government agencies are things that they cannot do for themselves with any degree of confidence. You are not taking into account the overhead of an office and its staff. There is rent to be paid, salaries, supplies, utilities, taxes, etc. There are numerous legal agencies through out the US that will assist immigrants for small or no fees. Check out Catholic Charties to name one. Also look on the INS website. They have a list of pro bono attorneys to assist immigrants with their INS problems. The two attroneys who frequent the newsgroup here have outlined that even a set fee for a set of forms means that they will go the distance for their clients if a problem arises. You live in a country where you are free to make phone calls and get the fee schedules of the attorneys before you hire them. It is your responsibility to see that you get value for your money and not throw it down the tubes. Perhaps the problem with today's society is its inability to take responsibility for their actions rather than bitching and moaning that they were taken advantage of by unscrupulous attorneys, plumbers, doctors, dentists, electricians, whatever.
What you are also not taking into consideration is that your $50 earned in another country might well be the equivalent of $120 earned in the US. So are you really getting value for your money. As for greed, it isn't only found in the US. It is found throughout the world, although in varying degrees. One spends hundreds of thousands of dollars for a specialized degree in law or medicine or thousands of dollars to learn the skills of plumbing and electricial work. Businesses are run for the opportunity to make money; not give it away for cost. I would like to see what your attitude would be if you were a shop owner and paid $5.00 cost for an item and were told you could only mark the item up $1. Don't think you would be in business long. Remember the world of business, be it product or service, is run on the basis of supply and demand, as well as let's make a profit.
Rete
Soap Box Put Away For Now.
What you are also not taking into consideration is that your $50 earned in another country might well be the equivalent of $120 earned in the US. So are you really getting value for your money. As for greed, it isn't only found in the US. It is found throughout the world, although in varying degrees. One spends hundreds of thousands of dollars for a specialized degree in law or medicine or thousands of dollars to learn the skills of plumbing and electricial work. Businesses are run for the opportunity to make money; not give it away for cost. I would like to see what your attitude would be if you were a shop owner and paid $5.00 cost for an item and were told you could only mark the item up $1. Don't think you would be in business long. Remember the world of business, be it product or service, is run on the basis of supply and demand, as well as let's make a profit.
Rete
Soap Box Put Away For Now.
[SIZE=1]Originally posted by Julia Alveres
Hi all
this is a matter I feel I must talk about. Lawyers in my view are only
out to get rich by advising people who can really do the work
themselves. Often they do not have ethics and charge hundreds of
dollars per hour .. they have no staff worth talking about .. one girl
poorly paid maybe and walk away with un-godly profits.
But this is America folks ,,,, yes your plumber will also see
hundreds of dollars for the most simple of visits .. it is just
ridiculous .. I am having second thoughts thoughts about living in
this " greed " culture. What is the point .... what I pay $500 here
can be acquired for $30 at home. It is not right if you ask me .....
that is why you have so much violence as people resent all this and I
can hardly blame them.
thanks
Julia
Hi all
this is a matter I feel I must talk about. Lawyers in my view are only
out to get rich by advising people who can really do the work
themselves. Often they do not have ethics and charge hundreds of
dollars per hour .. they have no staff worth talking about .. one girl
poorly paid maybe and walk away with un-godly profits.
But this is America folks ,,,, yes your plumber will also see
hundreds of dollars for the most simple of visits .. it is just
ridiculous .. I am having second thoughts thoughts about living in
this " greed " culture. What is the point .... what I pay $500 here
can be acquired for $30 at home. It is not right if you ask me .....
that is why you have so much violence as people resent all this and I
can hardly blame them.
thanks
Julia
Nov 17th 2002, 6:40 pm
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Ridiculous Attorney fees?
>There are numerous
>legal agencies through out the US that will assist immigrants for small
>or no fees. Check out Catholic Charties to name one
YEP. I have to say we've found Catholic Charities brilliant. You don't have to
be a catholic to use them. I did the English end myself but my fiancé used them
for filing the 129F. In Dallas their branch is actually based in the same
building as the INS. They charged an $80 flat fee, did all the form filling,
checked all the documents, but more importantly promised to fight for our case
if there was a hitch, once they'd taken it on.
When they take in an application they have their experts go over it with a fine
tooth comb. When they're sure there will be no problems they hand over the file
- made up exactly the way INS likes to receive them.
At the time of filing 129F we were completely on our own. Didn't know about
this newsgroup and had no contact with anyone else going through the process.
We had been told (back in July) that Texas service centre had a huge backlog
and was moving very slow. Money is tight but the peace of mind gained knowing
we were unlikely to get further delayed because of our own mistakes was worth
it. My fiancé filed with them mid July - spent half a day with them as they
combed through his application checking, and getting him to doublecheck -
everything on the forms before handing them over to their experts to further
check. Despite a delay of a few days while they did this, before mid-August the
petition was not only approved but already sitting on file at London embassy.
The guy dealing with my fiancé was courteous and kind and gave out his phone
number and said ring any time if you hit a snag. We never hit one. I'd highly
recommend them - especially if there is anything unusual about your case.
regards
-=-
scarlett
>legal agencies through out the US that will assist immigrants for small
>or no fees. Check out Catholic Charties to name one
YEP. I have to say we've found Catholic Charities brilliant. You don't have to
be a catholic to use them. I did the English end myself but my fiancé used them
for filing the 129F. In Dallas their branch is actually based in the same
building as the INS. They charged an $80 flat fee, did all the form filling,
checked all the documents, but more importantly promised to fight for our case
if there was a hitch, once they'd taken it on.
When they take in an application they have their experts go over it with a fine
tooth comb. When they're sure there will be no problems they hand over the file
- made up exactly the way INS likes to receive them.
At the time of filing 129F we were completely on our own. Didn't know about
this newsgroup and had no contact with anyone else going through the process.
We had been told (back in July) that Texas service centre had a huge backlog
and was moving very slow. Money is tight but the peace of mind gained knowing
we were unlikely to get further delayed because of our own mistakes was worth
it. My fiancé filed with them mid July - spent half a day with them as they
combed through his application checking, and getting him to doublecheck -
everything on the forms before handing them over to their experts to further
check. Despite a delay of a few days while they did this, before mid-August the
petition was not only approved but already sitting on file at London embassy.
The guy dealing with my fiancé was courteous and kind and gave out his phone
number and said ring any time if you hit a snag. We never hit one. I'd highly
recommend them - especially if there is anything unusual about your case.
regards
-=-
scarlett
Nov 17th 2002, 10:43 pm
#34
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Re: Ridiculous Attorney fees?
Originally posted by Scarlett
>There are numerous
>legal agencies through out the US that will assist immigrants for small
>or no fees. Check out Catholic Charties to name one
YEP. I have to say we've found Catholic Charities brilliant. You don't have to
be a catholic to use them. I did the English end myself but my fiancé used them
for filing the 129F. In Dallas their branch is actually based in the same
building as the INS. They charged an $80 flat fee, did all the form filling,
checked all the documents, but more importantly promised to fight for our case
if there was a hitch, once they'd taken it on.
When they take in an application they have their experts go over it with a fine
tooth comb. When they're sure there will be no problems they hand over the file
- made up exactly the way INS likes to receive them.
At the time of filing 129F we were completely on our own. Didn't know about
this newsgroup and had no contact with anyone else going through the process.
We had been told (back in July) that Texas service centre had a huge backlog
and was moving very slow. Money is tight but the peace of mind gained knowing
we were unlikely to get further delayed because of our own mistakes was worth
it. My fiancé filed with them mid July - spent half a day with them as they
combed through his application checking, and getting him to doublecheck -
everything on the forms before handing them over to their experts to further
check. Despite a delay of a few days while they did this, before mid-August the
petition was not only approved but already sitting on file at London embassy.
The guy dealing with my fiancé was courteous and kind and gave out his phone
number and said ring any time if you hit a snag. We never hit one. I'd highly
recommend them - especially if there is anything unusual about your case.
regards
-=-
scarlett
>There are numerous
>legal agencies through out the US that will assist immigrants for small
>or no fees. Check out Catholic Charties to name one
YEP. I have to say we've found Catholic Charities brilliant. You don't have to
be a catholic to use them. I did the English end myself but my fiancé used them
for filing the 129F. In Dallas their branch is actually based in the same
building as the INS. They charged an $80 flat fee, did all the form filling,
checked all the documents, but more importantly promised to fight for our case
if there was a hitch, once they'd taken it on.
When they take in an application they have their experts go over it with a fine
tooth comb. When they're sure there will be no problems they hand over the file
- made up exactly the way INS likes to receive them.
At the time of filing 129F we were completely on our own. Didn't know about
this newsgroup and had no contact with anyone else going through the process.
We had been told (back in July) that Texas service centre had a huge backlog
and was moving very slow. Money is tight but the peace of mind gained knowing
we were unlikely to get further delayed because of our own mistakes was worth
it. My fiancé filed with them mid July - spent half a day with them as they
combed through his application checking, and getting him to doublecheck -
everything on the forms before handing them over to their experts to further
check. Despite a delay of a few days while they did this, before mid-August the
petition was not only approved but already sitting on file at London embassy.
The guy dealing with my fiancé was courteous and kind and gave out his phone
number and said ring any time if you hit a snag. We never hit one. I'd highly
recommend them - especially if there is anything unusual about your case.
regards
-=-
scarlett
Here in Los Angeles, there is a similar office in the Los Angeles Street INS office -- but its not run by Catholic Charities -- it is run by the Immigration Legal Assistance Clinic of the Los Angeles County Bar Association. Yes, it is funded by lawyers and there is a paid lawyer who supervises the volunteers and staff in the place. They are also funded by providing filing serices to lawyers and providing paid training classes to lawyers!
I recommend places like Catholic Charities and the ILAP to people quite highly.
Nov 18th 2002, 3:54 am
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Ridiculous Attorney fees?
FreedomTrail wrote:
>
> I agree with a lot of what you say, but you are also talking about corporate
> clients. I am talking about individuals, the working class.
>
> > Do you think OJ would have been acquited with a Public Defender?
>
> Exactly, you made my point. Only those who have enough money get decent
> medical, legal or any other kind of help. I am arguing for more equitable
> and affordable services for citizens.
You missed my point. OJ was on trial for murder and he bought what legal
advice he could afford.
It doesn't take a $300 per hour attorney to handle a "simple" fiance
visa.
You keep indicating the only attorneys available make $300 per hour or
more
>
> I agree with a lot of what you say, but you are also talking about corporate
> clients. I am talking about individuals, the working class.
>
> > Do you think OJ would have been acquited with a Public Defender?
>
> Exactly, you made my point. Only those who have enough money get decent
> medical, legal or any other kind of help. I am arguing for more equitable
> and affordable services for citizens.
You missed my point. OJ was on trial for murder and he bought what legal
advice he could afford.
It doesn't take a $300 per hour attorney to handle a "simple" fiance
visa.
You keep indicating the only attorneys available make $300 per hour or
more
Nov 18th 2002, 12:11 pm
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Ridiculous Attorney fees?
You make a good point about fees. It's not a scientific study, but the
attorneys so far that I have found under $200 are like the ones in Hollywood
who look like they light one cigarette from the dying butt of the previous
one and their secretary like a Hooter's girl. Ideally, I suppose I would
find one who is a champion of good, prophet of the people, yet under $150 an
hour. Then there is the relative merits of a larger firm vs. the sole
practitioner. I can't say which is better, but I believe that is a big part
of the higher fees, the bigger team and the $200 a square foot real-estate.
Thanks to everyone for the debate. It isn't exactly on topic, though
related. It seems more difficult to find the lower cost or charitable
solutions and some were mentioned here. It helps not only to have money,
but to have time to research and search out alternatives.
-f
"mrtravel" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> FreedomTrail wrote:
> >
> > I agree with a lot of what you say, but you are also talking about
corporate
> > clients. I am talking about individuals, the working class.
> >
> > > Do you think OJ would have been acquited with a Public Defender?
> >
> > Exactly, you made my point. Only those who have enough money get decent
> > medical, legal or any other kind of help. I am arguing for more
equitable
> > and affordable services for citizens.
> You missed my point. OJ was on trial for murder and he bought what legal
> advice he could afford.
> It doesn't take a $300 per hour attorney to handle a "simple" fiance
> visa.
> You keep indicating the only attorneys available make $300 per hour or
> more
attorneys so far that I have found under $200 are like the ones in Hollywood
who look like they light one cigarette from the dying butt of the previous
one and their secretary like a Hooter's girl.
Ideally, I suppose I wouldfind one who is a champion of good, prophet of the people, yet under $150 an
hour.
Then there is the relative merits of a larger firm vs. the solepractitioner. I can't say which is better, but I believe that is a big part
of the higher fees, the bigger team and the $200 a square foot real-estate.
Thanks to everyone for the debate. It isn't exactly on topic, though
related. It seems more difficult to find the lower cost or charitable
solutions and some were mentioned here. It helps not only to have money,
but to have time to research and search out alternatives.
-f
"mrtravel" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> FreedomTrail wrote:
> >
> > I agree with a lot of what you say, but you are also talking about
corporate
> > clients. I am talking about individuals, the working class.
> >
> > > Do you think OJ would have been acquited with a Public Defender?
> >
> > Exactly, you made my point. Only those who have enough money get decent
> > medical, legal or any other kind of help. I am arguing for more
equitable
> > and affordable services for citizens.
> You missed my point. OJ was on trial for murder and he bought what legal
> advice he could afford.
> It doesn't take a $300 per hour attorney to handle a "simple" fiance
> visa.
> You keep indicating the only attorneys available make $300 per hour or
> more
Nov 18th 2002, 7:04 pm
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Ridiculous Attorney fees?
> the
>attorneys so far that I have found under $200 are like the ones in Hollywood
>who look like they light one cigarette from the dying butt of the previous
>one and their secretary like a Hooter's girl.
forgive me, i really don't see that what they look like is a good way to judge.
a sharp suit is no guarantee of good advice. perhaps they don't charge enough
to do things posh. the guy who was so great at catholic charities had only one
arm and didn't dress snappily. so what? he did a great job. you don't seem to
want to hear any alternatives. your mind is obviously made up. so why continue
the debate? enough already.
regards
-=-
scarlett
>attorneys so far that I have found under $200 are like the ones in Hollywood
>who look like they light one cigarette from the dying butt of the previous
>one and their secretary like a Hooter's girl.
forgive me, i really don't see that what they look like is a good way to judge.
a sharp suit is no guarantee of good advice. perhaps they don't charge enough
to do things posh. the guy who was so great at catholic charities had only one
arm and didn't dress snappily. so what? he did a great job. you don't seem to
want to hear any alternatives. your mind is obviously made up. so why continue
the debate? enough already.
regards
-=-
scarlett
Nov 19th 2002, 3:49 am
#38
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Re: Ridiculous Attorney fees?
Originally posted by Scarlett
> the
>attorneys so far that I have found under $200 are like the ones in Hollywood
>who look like they light one cigarette from the dying butt of the previous
>one and their secretary like a Hooter's girl.
forgive me, i really don't see that what they look like is a good way to judge.
a sharp suit is no guarantee of good advice. perhaps they don't charge enough
to do things posh. the guy who was so great at catholic charities had only one
arm and didn't dress snappily. so what? he did a great job. you don't seem to
want to hear any alternatives. your mind is obviously made up. so why continue
the debate? enough already.
regards
-=-
scarlett
> the
>attorneys so far that I have found under $200 are like the ones in Hollywood
>who look like they light one cigarette from the dying butt of the previous
>one and their secretary like a Hooter's girl.
forgive me, i really don't see that what they look like is a good way to judge.
a sharp suit is no guarantee of good advice. perhaps they don't charge enough
to do things posh. the guy who was so great at catholic charities had only one
arm and didn't dress snappily. so what? he did a great job. you don't seem to
want to hear any alternatives. your mind is obviously made up. so why continue
the debate? enough already.
regards
-=-
scarlett
Your post is causing a <g> from pleasant memory.
There is a tradition among US lawyers that local bar associations offer a "Bridging The Gap" program for lawyers newly admitted to the bar -- it is in the spirit of "OK, you've graduated law school, passed the bar exam -- Counsellor, where is the courthouse?"
I remember attending such a program in San Francisco in 1975 when one of the speakers mentioned this very topic -- She said a lawyer should not have expensive looking digs because clients will get upset that they are paying high fees to support useless ostentation. Also, lawyers should not have shabby digs because clients will think you must be incompetent because you don't have ostentatious digs. Moral -- do what you are comfortable with.
Nov 19th 2002, 5:14 am
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Ridiculous Attorney fees?
lol folinskyinla, that's a nice story - thanks for sharing
regards
-=-
scarlett
regards
-=-
scarlett
