Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

Hey guys,

My Mum came over to visit me last week and we just got back from taking her to Niagara Falls for the evening. She wanted to stay in a hotel so we dropped her and my Aunt off and came back home for the night. We live in Buffalo.

We frequently cross the border to go to Niagara Falls/Toronto etc. I'm a Permanent Resident and travel with my GC and Passport.

On the way back I found the line of questioning a little strange. First of all he wanted to look in the trunk of the car, asked who the car was registered to. Then he asked me how I got my Greencard, and what my my status before I got my Greencard. Who sponsored me? Were my husband and I related? :confused:

It was very strange, and I've never been asked these kinda questions regarding my Permanent Residency before. He even asked to take a look at my GC again AFTER he'd given it back to me.

It always freaks me out when I get interrogated, just wondering if this stuff is considered normal etc? I know they're allowed to ask you anything they want and to always just tell them the truth.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

I got asked similar questions when crossing from Canada (apart from the being related to my spouse.... that's well odd). It's usually the Canadians who are worse IMO.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

I know I am probably flapping over nothing, I just found it really strange.

The last few times we've been over it's been pleasant on both sides. It only seems to be when it's just my husband and I in the car. We're quite young (27) and our car is a hunk of junk...

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

This thread has its ups & downs but this video was interesting in some ways.
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showp...8&postcount=38

That officer didn't want to acknowledge that married people are related either.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

There's an interesting thread on this somewhere on here. The general consensus seemed to be that sometimes you just get unlucky and run into a dimwit.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

I've crossed the border at Niagara/Buffalo several times a year for the last 8 or so years. During the last few years it seems every time we cross immigration have stepped it up a notch. Earlier this week when we crossed several cars were searched...last month we were waiting 3 hours to cross. The questions really don't bother me...hopefully they're for a reason and the IO's are doing there job.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

It sounds like he was just doing what he is paid to do and being thorough. Imagine if he asked you how you got the card, and you said it was through your employer, but they knew it was obtained through your spouse.

What would that be an indicator of?

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

Seems like fairly normal questioning to me. I used to cross the US/Canada border at least twice per week, sometimes you sail through, sometimes you get the third degree. I was asked quite a few times how I obtained my green card (through employment) and then follow up questions would be if I still worked for them and what my position was.

I wouldn't worry about it.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

StephieFaith83,

I sympathize with you and must admit to finding some of the questioning a bit strange. Some of my fellow posters here tend to be rather too understanding of the CBP at times, if I may say so...;)
Being a journalist myself, I follow the Canadian news media rather closely regarding people´s experiences on the US-Canadian border, and it is pretty clear to me that the questioning constantly seems to be getting ramped up on the US-Canadian landcrossings. The US-Canadian landborder is now, seen from a CBP perspective, being treated in much the same way as the US-Mexican border as regards the degree of suspicion and questioning meted out to an increasing number of travellers.
Although there are a fair number of horror stories dealing with the Canadian border control, I would certainly venture to state that the US CBP generally speaking is worse in this regard than their counterparts on the Canadian side.
Things are bound to get a lot worse from the travellers´s point of view, I fear.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

They're starting to treat the northern and southern border the same way? So now they're asking the mostly white Canadians just as many questions as the Mexicans? The horror! Something really has to be done about that.

/sarcasm off

I'm glad to see equal opportunity questioning.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

crg,

I´m not quite sure whether you really are being sarcastic or not here....
Perhaps you rather approve of the fact that the Canadian-US border is slowly but surely turning into a kind of "fortress", while the southern border is cracking at its seems, despite the best efforts to secure and patrol it.

If the current trend continues unabated the Canadians shall soon have to turn up with a visa at the border, as may well be the case with visitors from the current VWP countries.
In the not too distant future I fear that the VWP programme may well be scrapped and that the days of visa-free travel between the US and Canada might also be coming to an end.

And, seriously, aside from any nauseating political correctness, does anybody truly believe that the prosperous Canadians are as much a threat to the stability and national security of the US as the Mexicans???

Let´s stop smothering ourselves in politically correct posturing and be realistic!

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

Quite normal. It is done randomly at the Can/Am border. I've had similar occurrence after leaving Canada with the in-laws to go to the NYS Indian Casino and was questioned in the same way by the Canadians when I was returning later that day.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

On what do you base this assumption? Your negativity is quite tedious, unwarranted and unwelcomed.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

Duh! Not the Canadians but the illegal immigration of those who are using the Can/Am border to make their way into the US. Unless you don't read newspapers or listen to the news, you have to be aware of the great influx of illegal immigrants to Canada who come from nearly all countries. They use the unprotected/unpatrolled borders and/or use fraudulent documents such as green cards to enter the US.

But then again it would not fit into your negative personality which I'm sure is a hinderous to a "journalist".

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

Thanks for all of your replies guys. I am still a newbie, only had my GC for 2 months and this is all a learning process.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

Well, well, what a very hateful and vindictive response.
How interesting....
And you seem to know all about me and my personality, as well...
Have we met somewhere, perhaps?

This is all about mutual respect and not slandering people for expressing a different opinion.
Your insidious way of attacking me for expressing a different opinion than your own is shocking and reprehensible.
Do you advocate censorship as well and curtailing of free speech?

It´s obvious that your disapprove of views who are critical to your own way of thinking and that this riles you for whatever reason.
A case of "Stockholm syndrome", perhaps?

I fully respect your opinions and ask you to kindly respect my right to express my opinions in a frank and open exchange of views.
Is that too much to ask for?

And yes, I AM a journalist, actually quite successful by the way, and yes, I stand by my previous comments to 110%.
I truly believe that international travel for ordinary people is likely to become more and more of a hindrance and burden in different ways over the next 10 years and not just regarding the US.

Let´s just agree to disagree on this obviously very contentious point.
And again, I very much resent your condemnation of me as a person and find that utterly uncalled for.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

That will never happen. Canadians will always be visa free and there will always be a VWP. If they were moving in that direction, why did they just add several additional countries to the VWP? Greece? South Korea? Hungary? Czech Rep? They aren't eliminating it, they are expanding it.

Canada lets a lot of people in that the US doesn't want to come south. It's not unheard of for a terrorist to be caught at the Canadian border.

Up until a year or so ago, Canada allowed Mexico to come without a visa. So people from Mexico could spend a few hundred bucks, fly to Canada, and then try to walk over to the US.

If you have a fence around your house, would it make sense to have a big hole in it on one side?

Do you think if they increase security on the southern border that the people will just throw up their hands and go home, or try to find another way?

Don't play the journalism card like it will automatically give you more credibility.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

I have to agree with you somewhat on this. Many travel restrictions have been put in place since 9/11 - by many governments, not just the US. I think this trend will continue - although i do not think visa free travel for Canadians or the Visa Waiver program will disappear any time soon.

I am not a journalist by trade, but I have heard anecdotal evidence of illegal immigrants from South America (not Mexico) sometimes transiting through Canada instead of Mexico because the Canadian/American border has historically been viewed as less guarded than our southern border.. I would not be surprised if this trend applies to illegal immigrants from other parts of the world, nor would i be surprised if this also applies to other forms of illegal transportation so to speak.

As a journalist, why don't you take a closer look at this, and come back with your findings. This is a serious suggestion, it is not meant as an attack on you, your profession or your views expressed on this site.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

Down here in my neck of the woods, it isn't uncommon for husband and wife to be related by something other than marriage! Yes, seriously!

Ian

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

You know this is mathematically impossible, right?

Ian

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

Ian,

Yes, I´m aware of that....;)

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

I was up in Vancouver recently to have my regular meeting with USCBP officers up there. I was chatting with the assistant PD, and our exchange went something like this: "We're tightening up around here."

"You mean: the Canadian side of things?"

"Yeah. I used to work the Yuma [Ariz] sector and also the San Ysidro [Calif] sector. All of us know that when it comes to unlawful employment that takes away jobs from most Americans, it's the Canadian border that's the hot spot. I'm no fool. I know that the handy-man or the fruit-picker from México is not the threat to US employment that the educated Canadian worker is."

"Would you say your interdiction efforts should be less along the Southern Border and greater along with Northern Border?"

"Well, unlawful workers aren't supposed to be here. Period. But my family eats pears, broccoli, and strawberries, too. I know what would happen to the prices for everyday people if we locked down the Southern Border."

"Is this Agency policy now?"

Long, long pause. "I'm just telling you what I observe."

THIS from the assistant PD!

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

Incidentally, I also had a conversation with a Congressman on the House subcommittee on immigration. There is discussion of doing away with the provisions which make Canadians visa-exempt -- for security reasons.

It is NOT clear that this would ever get out of committee or that it would make it past the Senate, but the proposal is on the table.

For those of you who like the visa-exempt status of Canadians, I would not be too casual about thinking that this exemption will never change.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

JCraigFong,

I´m referring to your posts # 22 and #23, which I found extremely interesting and informative.
Unfortunately, what you are relaying here regarding the as yet unofficial stance regarding the US-Canadian border in various respects, tend to corroborate my worst suspicions, some of which I was severely lambasted for by a well-known poster on this board earlier today.
She decried me for having a negative personality and spreading doom and gloom, when I was more or less prophesizing a frighteningly similar kind of future development as indicated by your summing-up of your recent conversations with the relatively high-ranking CBP officer at one of the US-Canadian border sections and with one Congressman on the House Subcommittee on Immigration.

I sincerely pray and hope to be proven wrong, but your two posts there confirmed my worst fears as for what might be coming to the Canadian-US border in the not too distant future, step by step.

What adds to this potentially dismal outlook is the fact that there is generally very little difference on this issue between most Democrats and Republicans.
A gradual tightening of the US-Canadian border and the US borders in general is part of an unfortunate siege mentality, which has been further underpinned not only by the horrible events in September 2001 but also by the severe economic recession.

Fortress America, indeed!:ohmy:

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

I have crossed at Buffalo/Niagara a few times in the past few weeks (trip to Niagara, trip to Buffalo). I am an E3. The first time, I got cursory questions about where I was going and how I knew my travelling companion.

This time, she asked who the E1 was.... doh. I told her the E3 is the primary visa holder. She asked where I work and what I do, and how I know my travelling companion.

Both times I did carry my LCA and visa paperwork etc, but noone asked for it. These were my first experiences at a land border so I don't know if it was usual or not. The longest I had to wait was about 15 minutes and that was a long weekend.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

After almost 30 years in the legal profession, I have learned that one will rarely lose a wager, betting that the US will get more conservative in its approach to immigration -- whether at the border, or due to enforcement measures, or benefit programs. True: there have been times when the nation has lived according to its principles -- in immigration and elseways -- but I'd have to say that the devil is in the details.

Having said that, I think I recognize and understand in those who might challenge or be frightened by your observation about the border a wish -- realistic or not -- that it might not be so. That this nation will live up to its highest self, rather than reacting to its basest fears. As one who has specialized in civil rights and constitutional law for so many years, I understand the frustration, seeing my country move one way while our best principles exalt us to go another.

Finally, I am certainly no stranger to being attacked by some contributors on B.E. I will no longer get into a spitting match with such a person, and I leave such a poster to assert what he likes, despite the fact that people could rely on such postings to their detriment. I wish I could say that you should not take such attacks personally; however, I think I understand that it is hard not to do so.

In the end, I remind myself that we must be better than our worst selves. Sometimes, I succeed.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

I have only crossed the US-Mexican border twice into the US (last time in 2008), and on both occasions I wasn't asked any immigration questions. Judging from the speed at which the cars were moving, neither were most other travellers. The CBP officers seemed to be mostly interested in what we had bought in Mexico. On the last occasion, the only Mexican in our group (a LPR) was asked when he immigrated to the US, and that was it.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

Thanks JCF, the voice of calm and reason. You're so right IMHO that one day in the not to distant future, the Can/Am border will be tightened even more than it is today. Also think that they will institute a type of system similar to the ESTA for Canadians who that they, too, can be checked out before crossing. Will the need to do so be only because they are fearing illegal immigration by Canucks? Don't think so. Honestly believe it is because of the high useage of the Can/Am border by illegal immigrants to Canada who find this an easier way into the US.

Remember how upset and up in arms my in-laws where to learn that they would need passports to come to the US. Perhaps they will do something like our NYS driver's licenses that, for a higher fee, include our US citizenship as part of the drive's license and is good for the border crossing.

Never in our 13 years of courtship and marriage has my husband been grilled at the US portion of the border but he has incurred rude and obnoxious behavior by several Canadian agents when attempting to enter is own country.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

That's only anecdotal evidence, though - just like one time a few years ago when I crossed back into the US by car after spending 4 days on a visit to Canada. I was still an LPR at the time, and tried to hand the inspector my red norwegian passport and green card. The inspector did not even look at my documents, and waved me through after a question on if I had anything to declare (two six packs of Canadian beer and a carton of cigarettes from the duty free store) and confirming twice that I resided in New Jersey based on the tags on my vehicle.

Again, what does that experience prove? Nothing, it's anecdotal evidence. The CBP inspector was in a good mood that day.

On the other hand, the fact that I now as a naturalized US citizen have to carry a passport when I cross into the US by land from either Canada or Mexico support J's observation that immigration procedures are slowly tightening up.

Another example to support this observation: I entered on a K1 visa in the summer of 1984, and was granted permanent residence in early 1985. Yes, AOS took a while back then, too. I was given a green card with no expiration date, which I carried until I naturalized in 2008. There were no requirement to remove conditions on my residency after two years back then. The requirement to remove conditions on permanent residency based on a marriage less than two years old was not introduced until 1986. At that time, green cards with a 10 year expiration date was also introduced.

And don't get me started on the 1996 changes in immigration law and the effect they have on many US citizens and their families.

So, as an immigrant who has resided in the US for 26 years, I have to agree with J's observation that the trend in immigration regulations over the years has been towards making things stricter.

That being said, I do not believe this trend is limited to the US. There is a growing resentment towards current immigration and asylum policy in Norway for example, and if the Norwegian media is anything to go by, there seem to be a trend towards stricter enforcement and stepped up deportation of people with denied asylum claims.

Naturally, since I was born in Norway I don't follow other countries as closely, but I would not be too surprised to find similar trends elsewhere.

It's probably all rooted in human nature. We are territorial beings after all, - what is the purpose of fencing in a suburban yard other than marking our territory? No matter how sophisticated we think we have become over the last 10,000+ years or so, we are not that biologically different from our cave dwelling ancestors. Back then protecting one's territory was a survival mechanism, and that instinct is still in all of us today, whether we like it or not. Think about it for a second, what is a border really? At the most basic, it is nothing more than a line in the sand marking the edge of what a large tribe has defined as their territory.

In an ideal world there would be no need for borders or marking territory, and we would all live happily ever after. However, I am a realist and know that Utopia does not exist in real life, nor will it ever exist in my lifetime - if ever.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

Discover has a point. We are talking about anecdotes. However, one value of a bulletin board like B.E. is the fact that when we aggregate enough anecdotes, we begin to see patterns.

Others might try to console themselves and others that the regulations preclude such patterns. Or that the border guards aren't supposed to do such things. Or that the law was not intended for such a result. Anyone with real-world experience with Department of Homeland Security knows that regulations are broken as often as they are observed by the regulators.

The patterns tell us that our experiences are real, despite what the regulations and law say. One of the hardest parts of immigration law practice is knowing when to rely on the law and when to rely on experience.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

Wow, I like that. :)

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

In a number of trips over the last 18 months there's been no stand-out memories. Sometimes I was asked a few more questions than others. The longest questioning was when my young daughter was in a paddy in the back and the questions were to her, clearly to make sure that everything was in order and I wasn't up to bad things!

I'm heading across to Canada this week, there and back on Thursday for a business meeting. If there's anything special in the anecdotal arena to add to this thread I'll add it. Otherwise assume it was the usual non-event or I'm locked away and unable to get online :p

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

You know, Meauxna, I can't begin to tell you how often I get someone in my office who says, "my cousin's brother-in-law's boss' housekeeper irons the shirts of a guy who got his green card by standing on his head and signing "Jerusalem. I want to get a green card the same way."

And when I say, "you can't do that," they get upset. Their EXPERIENCE tells them that it is supposed to be possible. *I* have to tell them that the law does not provide for this. On the other hand, someone may say, "the regulations say that you can do such-and-such," but I *know* that in practice, it won't happen. Again, I have to be the bad guy, saying "no."

All the information available -- some of it right, some of it wrong, and some of it incomplete -- sometimes makes it hard to advise people.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

I understand, and naturally think of my own situations... These are the sorts of arguments that come up about marriage based VWP AOS. It's a very difficult line to stand on.
You could add in 'But the person I spoke to at USCIS/Consulate/border said this is so...'.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

Personally, I think Michigan and its representatives are the ones to watch -- It is one of the largest "battle ground" states and the Detroit Metro area includes a big chunk of Ontario.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

J

You know that I take a historical approach to these things. There has been a nativist urge in this country going back to the Know Nothings, if not before. And both of us are amused at the argument of "my ancestors came here legally."

I like to remind people that our organic immigration law is the Immigration & Nationality Act of 1952, as amended. This was a piece of McCarthyite legislation. A lot of was aimed at bugaboo group of people in that day -- "commiesandqueers." Of course, the "commiesandqueers" were making hay out of the fact we would not allow Koreans to immigrate to the US -- hence the de jure exclusion of the Yellow Peril was ended. [However, the practical effect remained due to quotas based on historical levels of immigration -- that is why Harry vetoed the damn thing].

Later this got tied up with the old re-entry doctrine and the Supremes had to rule on the cases of Mssrs. Bonetti and Fleuti -- both members of the despised class of commiesandqueers.

In 1965, the de facto racial quotas were ended. But this also ended the favorable treatment for brits and northern Europeans. But 1968 was the start of the influx of FOB's to complement ABC's. Also, for the first time, a numerical restriction was placed on Western Hemisphere immigration.

[In fact, I think the one constant in all the amendments is that Mexicans get screwed, but I digress].

Of course, for years the Courts would opine that Congress had "unfettered discretion" when it came to immigration. Fortunately, Congress routinely didn't think it was all that "unfettered." And then the Perfect Storm of 1996 happened and Congress took the courts at their word. The last 15 years have been interesting.

I have found that the "if I were King" discussions by those actually in the immigration trenches are useful. I'm sure you got your point of view across in a very respectful way.

We do live in interesting times.

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

It's the poutine.

Ian

Re: Questioning At The Canada/US Border...
 

An educational and interesting history lesson. Thank you!