pocky

From what I've read here, fairly sure you guys are tired of hearing about this in specific...but it's worth a shot anyway.

I met my boyfriend nine months ago for the first time (because we'd met online. WoW, if you're curious). We've known each other for four years and been "together" for a large chunk of that. I traveled to his country, Australia, and stayed for 3 months on an ETA, 'upgraded' to a visitor's and stayed for another 3 months. When it was time for me to come back home, he came along with me and just left last night after his stay here (America) on the VWP. He left with respect to the 90 day limit, so we're all good there.

We wish to be as careful as possible when it comes to visiting one another. As maddening as it is, we don't want to risk any chances that we won't be able to see each other when we want to (within the realm of reason).

The VWP stipulates that a visitor can come here for 90 days, valid for 2 years with multiple entries. I want to bring my boyfriend back here for another 90 days (via a roundtrip ticket) so that we have some more time. Our future plans are to marry, etc, all that good stuff. But we want to time it right. This rules out any possibility of a spousal visa/fiance's visa right now. So:

Can anyone explain me as to how difficult it may be for him to return for another 3 months? This will be the 2nd and last entry on the VWP for a while, til next year most likely when we will be considering a K3. The multiple entry thing is a little tricky and confusing. I know that over 6 months is asking for it, but if the visitor's visa - for the most part - allots 6 months, why can't two 3 month visits on a VWP be okay too? One thing I must note is that we're worried about applying for a tourist's visa due to the fact they want proof of sufficient funds. Isn't it generally upwards to like, 6000$ in funds? We are not rich people - he doesn't have this kind of money in his bank and I paid for much of his stay here (despite his protesting. ) It sort of leaves the option of just revisiting on the VWP wide open.

To specify how soon it would be, he left last night on the 11th of Jan, and we're hoping to bring him back on about the 4th or 5th of February.

After his visit it is likely I will be visiting him in his country on a tourist's visa once more til we can square everything away.

I'm sorry for the tl;dr, but it's so important to me that I check up on everything before I buy the ticket. It rips me apart that we're not together after being so inseparable, however I want to ensure we're within lawful boundaries and that we're doing it the 'right way'.

Any help is appreciated. ): I'm at a loss - which is probably why this is so wordy and convoluted.

Rete

Rule of thumb is 3 months in - 3 months out. As much time out of the US as you have been in it.

As for the K-3, why in heaven's name have you chosen such an antiquated method of immigrating a spouse? Just go with the I-130. Or better still the K-1 fiancee visa and get married when he gets here when it is approved.

Noorah101

I've not heard of this stipulation before. Is it something particular for Australians? Edit to add: It could have to do with ESTA, right? I forgot, sorry. ESTA is a new thing, I'm not up on all the rules.

The general rule of thumb is to spend more time outside the USA than inside. So if he was here for 90 days, he *should* spend 90+ days outside the USA before attempting to return on the VWP. That's not a set rule, and he could have no trouble coming back so soon. It's just a chance you take.

Just a note for the future...when it comes time to decide on a visa for him to MOVE to the USA...K-3 would probably be your last choice of visa. If you are unmarried and he wants to move over, you'll do a K-1 fiance visa. If you're married, you'll do a CR-1 spouse Immigrant Visa. K-3 is just a longer path to the green card...it's not your best choice.

Rene

pocky

Sorry guys, I'm not going to claim I'm too savvy on this whole thing which is why I came here. I appreciate the help concerning marriage visas and other possibilities, thankyou. I'll start researching these other ones in the meanwhile and set aside the k3. :P

Nonetheless the 'rule of thumb' is pretty depressing. Looks like I may be going back to see him instead. I'm trying to keep the risk factor down as much as possible while still trying to find a way to be with him.

Rete

Since he just left and Australia is such a long plane ride back to the US, it is without doubt that he will be questioned at the POE and if they discover he is back so early to visit a girlfriend, then 9-1 (IMB) he will be denied entry.

Make the next trip yours and he can come back in the summer.

Look into the I-130 for the immediate relative visa and also the K-1 fiancee visa.

pocky

Thank you so much Rete. I feel this is probably the best course of action now.

Folinskyinla

Hi:

In the eyes of the Dark Forces known as DHS [CBP, ICE and CIS], you are asking for advice on how to circumvent the law. Note, that I said the Government people may think that way.

I also have a feeling you don't really understand the underlying law -- I already see misunderstandings in your post and the very questions you ask.

You are playing with immigration fire. Good luck.

pocky

Do you care to elaborate? (:

meauxna

I'm moving your thread to the marriage based visa forum, where a parallel discussion is going on. Maybe reading some of the threads there will answer your questions.

MRF's post is pretty clear; what is it you want him to elaborate on (upon?)?

ian-mstm

To be fair, most of us didn't understand the underlying law when we started our immigration journey. Indeed, some of us still don't understand the underlying law!

Ian

meauxna

At first I mainly understood the part about how we (he) wouldn't be able to travel at the drop of a hat (requirement for us at the time), that he would not be able to just "live here" (retired) and that it could take 3 years to get his green card. The group wasn't quite so insistant back then on the express method.
The more I understand of it, the less I understand.

pocky

That, really. I'm not trying to be difficult, I just want to understand everything best to my ability. (:

I also find it funny this has gone from VWP to marriage visa discussion! However I'm not protesting. Two birds with one stone would be pretty keen.

forts

Why not go to Australia and apply for a partner visa there? (You would need to get married there (only being together 9 months,) there is a 30-day wait from when you get the marriage license until you can get married.) I can point you to a link for info on partner visas in Australia if you want.

You can enter with a tourist visa and apply for permanent residence once there, and there is nothing wrong with that according to Australian law and/or current policy/common law. Quite different to here. But you have to prove you are in a genuine marriage to a much greater degree. You would be given a bridging visa to keep you legal in Australia until your partner visa is approved to keep you legal. Regardless, the process is *MUCH* faster (try 1-3 months,) and you will be given a 2-year+ provisional partner visa that has no restrictions on it and allows for free multiple travel, so you can return.

He can, legally, come here if you honestly are NOT going to apply for a visa once he is here - **but government officials will be making the decision, and he may be refused entry** (as others pointed out.) You would need convincing proof of intent. If he has not gotten an ESTA yet, getting one now MAY, *PERHAPS*, give him better chances. But he must not apply for a visa here! I am not just saying that for irrelevant reasons - he will, likely, be charged with visa fraud and excluded from returning for 3+ years.

pocky

Thankyou so much for this post. I've considered the Australian route as well of course...I'm actually thinking it'd be preferable, haha. All of the possibilities are still a little overwhelming, admittedly. Nonetheless, do you have any advice pertaining to the Aussie visa?

As for him coming here and applying for a visa, we're not planning on it and it hasn't come up either. We're trying to do everything so that there is no chance of bans or hiccups at the borders. I want us to have a clean slate so when we get to the point where permanent immigration becomes feasible, there will be no real issues. (:

forts

Alright, I will tell you what I can. I checked some current info for you. This came out to quite a bit, so I really hope it is helpful. Good luck to you.

The immigration bureaucracy there apparently changed their name, AGAIN. DIMIA/DIMA is now known as DIAC, the Department of Immigration and Citizenship, and are found on the Internet at www.immi.gov.au. You will need to continue your voyage there, I can not help you any further than this info, which is not legal advice, informational purposes only.

For starters, you need an ETA, a tourist electronic visa that is good for 90 days, multiple travel. You apply online, and it costs $20. Find it along with info here: www.immi.gov.au/e_visa/eta.htm. It is a fairly simple and easy application. The ETA visa states that you may enter and leave Australia as much as you like staying up to 90 days (good for 1 year) as far as I can tell (and experienced), assuming you have enough financial support.

(The key here is that you are not going to work illegally (you are visiting friends and/or relatives). If they think you are they will not be kind. You need to be able to support yourself, or your boyfriend to support you, and show some simple proof of that. Have a return trip booked. You can change it for a modest fee ($200 generally for Qantas last I checked), good for up to a year. This will lower your burden of proof for finances substantially (in a proper legal way.) I should hope you can come up with that, or you have problems all around - and those flights are expensive! With the global financial mess they might be more stringent about it. You also must not have any intentions to break the law or overstay (meaning leave if your extension/Spouse Visa application is rejected and/or your visa runs out.)

You can also get a longer tourist visa (subclass 676) that requires a lot more work and time, but allows for a stay potentially up to 12 months (I think you need family for 12 months), but you can get that while you are in Australia to extend your stay as well and will be a good backup, if you want to have more time to get married or want to wait for a US Visa for him, and they also will want larger proof of finances. You could also get a fiancee visa, but I don't see why. You are still calling him your boyfriend, you don't have genuine intentions to marry him, and are thus not eligible.


To get a Spouse Visa, you need to get married. Remember that there is a one month waiting period after you obtain a license before you can get married. You will first be getting a two year probational one (subclass 820) and then the permanent one (subclass 801). It is the same application, and both have no conditions whatsoever. It costs about $2,105Au (currently a bargain in US Dollars.) Your tourist visa must still be valid. You will be given a bridging visa, if necessary, which will keep you legal until a decision is made.


I entered twice on an ETA, leaving on the last day with a month out in between, getting married on the second visit and then immediately applying for a Spouse Visa after we were married (30-day wait + more in my case), and it was granted before my 90 days were up.


*I* don't see any intentions of breaking the law, in fact I see the opposite. Alas the government might disagree. Visa fraud is a touchy subject. It would definitely be a problem if he applies for permanent residence here - 3+ year ban, deportation - do not do it! Otherwise he could also be refused entry (not good, and if nothing else throwing away tons of money.) I would suggest a legal consult and a paper B-2 Visa.