Oh My God!
 

I just went to an immigration attorney for a (what I thought was going to be) a simple consultation and he completely thwarted my hard work and plans and told me the better option would be for Greg to come over on a tourist visa, keep "the element of doubt" about whether we were going to be married or not, then "decide" to while he is here, do it, then get a marriage visa. he said he could get Work Authroization within 4-6 weeks after we filed. he has a great reputation for being an amazing attorney...should I believe all this or do you think it's a load of bullocks?!

It is the complete opposite of what I've heard from everyone here and other people...

Please advise!
Thanks....

Hi,
I'd like to comment more but can only cover a couple of your points.
I (UK) got married last September in Maryland to my (US) wife
on a tourist visa and didn't have a problem at all.
Mind you we had planned it for a long time (white wedding with all of the trimmings etc) but I never had a problem at all at the POE
And this was 2 weeks after September 11th
(MAY THEY REST IN PEACE)
So things may have been "changed since then"
I cannot comment on the work permit thingy as we flew back to the UK shortle after the wedding.

There are many couples that visit one another on a tourist visa and then decide they should get marry while they're here.
As far as I know that is not a problem if was not planned ahead and the wedding occurs after 60 days of arrival.

If I was in that situation I would probably won't do it. First, I might get a 30 day approval to visit and that's a no-no to marry within 30 days. More importantly, if I do get over 60 days of visit, knowing that this was all planned, I would have that "will INS find out?" haunting me for years.

Lots of people have had success with this method, but I've never heard of an immigration attorney advocating it though as it is not certain to succeed.

He said it was a better option than what?
Did he have an opinion about a fiancé visa?

I just read a post about the Tampa thing and people being denied AOS because they got married too soon after entry into the US. How soon after you enteretd the US did you get married? Did they question you when you went for AOS?

Thanks

He said I could go with the Fiance visa, but said it took 4-6 months, and if greg wanted to visit during that time, they might deny him entry with a K-1 in process. He also said that it was more complicated with Work Authorization... (the K-1) He basically said if I didn't want to be apart from greg, the marriage visa would be the better option as he would be able to be in the US while the process was taking place...

No one can come out and tell you ... yes that is the most expeditent way to go, even if it is frowned upon. INS makes allowances for this in their I-485 but they can be hard nosed about it and make you prove you hadn't planned on going this route in the first place.

The choice is yours to make. You have the legit way of the Fiancee Visa or the suggested way of your attorney consultant.

Rete

Your lawyer has given you the best-case scenario for a tourist visa adjustment, and a worst-case scenario for a fiancé visa. If you want to make an informed choice between the two, you really need to look at them in a more balanced light.

In reality, you have a good chance of encountering no problems with entering on a tourist visa. Others here have proven that. But it is possible to be questioned closely and to flunk the inspection. The downside is rather inconvenient if this were to happen.

In reality, a fiancé visa ex London takes 2-3 months, not the 4-6 months that the lawyer has suggested (yes, it can take 6 months, but the vast majority are dealt with in a fraction of this time, unless the immigrant is voluntarily lengthening the process). Other than the waiting time, you are fairly well guaranteed of smooth sailing ahead with the fiancé visa with almost zero chance of a catastrophic outcome.

Which service center would you need to apply through? If it is NSC, they are running 100 days for approval and a little more. If you're going through VSC, they have been spitting them out in a week or two. If your lovey is in the UK, they will open a provisional file and virtually have the interview scheduled before the police report is available.

Sorry if my jealousy shows, but it will take longer for my approval to make it from NSC to the consulate in China than it will take for your K-1 to be issued from the date you first file. Oh ya, when mine gets there - they play with it for another 3 - 4 months. Of course, they quit issuing K-1 and K-3 visas on 8/1 and no one knows when they will start up again.

If you can short-term a K-1, that's the 'approved' way to go. If you are in a time-warp like me, maybe the tourist adjustment is a better option. Just wait more than 60 days before you tie the knot. Good Luck.

-Don

Re: Oh My God!
 

In article <[email protected]>, beyness
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > I just went to an immigration attorney for a (what I thought was going to be) a
    > simple consultation and he completely thwarted my hard work and plans and told me
    > the better option would be for Greg to come over on a tourist visa, keep "the
    > element of doubt" about whether we were going to be married or not, then "decide"
    > to while he is here, do it, then get a marriage visa. he said he could get Work
    > Authroization within 4-6 weeks after we filed. he has a great reputation for being
    > an amazing attorney...should I believe all this or do you think it's a load of
    > bullocks?!
    > It is the complete opposite of what I've heard from everyone here and other
    > people...
If this attorney deals routinely with your INS office, then he may be rather
confident about this. The KEY, however, is a SAFE entry, with no lies being told,
and the INS officer letting him enter. These are not "sure things." Some get lucky,
some don't.

matta

Re: Oh My God!
 

Look at my timeline.....now a little over 2 months and everything legal, best way as
I can see it. If your fiance gets to the POE and slips up in any kind of way, or the
officer has a gut feeling he can deny him entry and if I am not mistaken ban him from
re-entry for how ever long a period of time. Why take the chance...do it legal and
make it easier for the INS and for yourself for that matter. You will be looking over
your shoulders for the next few years wondering if something or SOMEONE might slip up
or get mad and report it...or get jealous and report it...I am not meaning anyone on
here..just in general. Do it legal so you don't have to worry about it. A little over
2 months is well worth the wait without the worry.

--
Cheers, Sheila (U.S.C.) Clive (U.K.C.)
6/17/02- Mailed I-129f petition to TSC from the United Kingdom

6/18/02-Received first NOA from TSC

6/19/02-Mailed London Embassy paper work off to open provisional file

6/20/02- Received 2nd NOA from TSC

6/21/02- Received Interview date for London on 9/03/02 beyness
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I just went to an immigration attorney for a (what I thought was going to be) a
    > simple consultation and he completely thwarted my hard work and plans and told me
    > the better option would be for Greg to come over on a tourist visa, keep "the
    > element of doubt" about whether we were going to be married or not, then "decide"
    > to while he is here, do it, then get a marriage visa. he said he could get Work
    > Authroization within 4-6 weeks after we filed. he has a great reputation for being
    > an amazing attorney...should I believe all this or do you think it's a load of
    > bullocks?!
    > It is the complete opposite of what I've heard from everyone here and other
    > people...
    > Please advise! Thanks....
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Re: Oh My God!
 

Read the section on adjustment of status from a tourist visa on this site first:

http://www.mindspri-
ng.com/~docsteen/visainfo/visainfo.htm

Andy.

--
I'm not really here - it's just your warped imagination. "beyness"
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I just went to an immigration attorney for a (what I thought was going to be) a
    > simple consultation and he completely thwarted my hard work and plans and told me
    > the better option would be for Greg to come over on a tourist visa, keep "the
    > element of doubt" about whether we were going to be married or not, then "decide"
    > to while he is here, do it, then get a marriage visa. he said he could get Work
    > Authroization within 4-6 weeks after we filed. he has a great reputation for being
    > an amazing attorney...should I believe all this or do you think it's a load of
    > bullocks?!
    > It is the complete opposite of what I've heard from everyone here and other
    > people...
    > Please advise! Thanks....
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Re: Oh My God!
 

In article <[email protected]>, "CP"
<[email protected]> wrote:
    > Look at my timeline.....now a little over 2 months and everything legal, best way
    > as I can see it. If your fiance gets to the POE and slips up in any kind of way, or
    > the officer has a gut feeling he can deny him entry and if I am not mistaken ban
    > him from re-entry for how ever long a period of time. Why take the chance...do it
    > legal and make it easier for the INS and for yourself for that matter. You will be
    > looking over your shoulders for the next few years wondering if something or
    > SOMEONE might slip up or get mad and report it...or get jealous and report it...I
    > am not meaning anyone on here..just in general. Do it legal so you don't have to
    > worry about it. A little over 2 months is well worth the wait without the worry.

A couple of facts: (I'm no lawyer, bear in mind)
1. A person who enters on visa waiver, and then filed for AOS based on marriage after
entry: IF the AOS is denied for any reason, that person can be deported
immediately with no recourse, as one signs away legal recourse on the I-94W form
that is used when you enter the US.

2. An officer can ban one for *any* period of time at the port of entry, even a
lifetime, and this has no legal appeal under current law. While obviously this
does not happen very often, you just never know when you will catch an immigration
officer on a bad-hair day right after the night his wife walked out on him, and be
the unfortunate recipient of his wrath.<grin>

matta

Re: Oh My God!
 

"Matta Harri" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > A couple of facts: (I'm no lawyer, bear in mind)
    > 1. A person who enters on visa waiver, and then filed for AOS based on marriage
    > after entry: IF the AOS is denied for any reason, that person can be deported
    > immediately with no recourse, as one signs away legal recourse on the I-94W form
    > that is used when you enter the US.

This part is not correct. You still can appeal the AOS decision all the way up to the
BIA if necessary even if your were paroled into the US or entered on the visa waiver.

    > 2. An officer can ban one for *any* period of time at the port of entry, even a
    > lifetime, and this has no legal appeal under current law. While obviously this
    > does not happen very often, you just never know when you will catch an
    > immigration officer on a bad-hair day right after the night his wife walked out
    > on him, and be the unfortunate recipient of his wrath.<grin>

They don't decide the length of the ban, they decide the category they are
denying you under and that sets the duration. Although a supervisor has to agree,
there are some categories they can pick that are almost impossible to refute and
you are screwed!

Andy.

--
I'm not really here - it's just your warped imagination.

Re: Oh My God!
 

In article <[email protected]>, "Andy Platt" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > This part is not correct. You still can appeal the AOS decision all the way up
    > to the BIA if necessary even if your were paroled into the US or entered on the
    > visa waiver.

That is not what it says on the I-94W form: "I hereby waive any rights to review or
appeal of an immigration officer's determination of my admissibility, or to contest,
other than on the basis of an application for assylum, any action in deportation."

Can you cite some cases of BIA decisions based on appeal from visa waiver other
than assylum?

matta

Re: Oh My God!
 

Once you apply to adjust status, you are no longer in visa waiver status and the laws
regarding adjustment of status take priority. Of course, if you were concerned you
could get AP, leave and re-enter so your previous entry would be in AP.

Andy.

--
I'm not really here - it's just your warped imagination. "Matta Harri"
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >In article <[email protected]>, "Andy Platt" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > This part is not correct. You still can appeal the AOS decision all the
way
    > > up to the BIA if necessary even if your were paroled into the US or
entered
    > > on the visa waiver.
    > That is not what it says on the I-94W form: "I hereby waive any rights to review or
    > appeal of an immigration officer's determination of my admissibility, or to
    > contest, other than on the basis of an application for assylum, any action in
    > deportation."
    > Can you cite some cases of BIA decisions based on appeal from visa waiver other
    > than assylum?
    > matta

See this link
 

MARRIAGE IN THE US ON A TOURIST OR OTHER VISA MAIN FRAMES PAGE http://k1.exit.com/touristframes.html

"beyness" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I just went to an immigration attorney for a (what I thought was going to be) a
    > simple consultation and he completely thwarted my hard work and plans and told me
    > the better option would be for Greg to come over on a tourist visa, keep "the
    > element of doubt" about whether we were going to be married or not, then "decide"
    > to while he is here, do it, then get a marriage visa. he said he could get Work
    > Authroization within 4-6 weeks after we filed. he has a great reputation for being
    > an amazing attorney...should I believe all this or do you think it's a load of
    > bullocks?!
    > It is the complete opposite of what I've heard from everyone here and other
    > people...
    > Please advise! Thanks....
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Re: Oh My God!
 

In article <[email protected]>, "Andy Platt" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Once you apply to adjust status, you are no longer in visa waiver status and the
    > laws regarding adjustment of status take priority. Of course, if you were concerned
    > you could get AP, leave and re-enter so your previous entry would be in AP.

Actually, I don't think that would help any and could be more problems: once you
re-enter on AP, I think you are in poorer legal light should an adjustment be denied,
frankly. I could be wrong on this. I think Matt Udall commented on this and entrance
on non-immigrant visa also, once upon a time: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=2000-
0105004504.16714.00000575%40ng-c
c1.aol.com&output=gplain

matta

There was an interesting post recently by MUDALL ,an attorney.I think u should read it.
If he comes on a tourist visa, & if questioned at POE & admits he has a fiancee he could be refused entry.On the other hand if he denies it then rem it could cause problems later at AOSS Interview (ex u will not be able to show then any evidence like phone bills letters relating to before his entry)

Re: Oh My God!
 

Hi, If its any help i came over on a visa waiver not intending to marry but to get a
visa for my then boyfriend (now husband) to come and live in the UK with me for a
year or so and we would get married there.and eventuallly return to the USA..its a
long story why we didnt do this in the end,but I WOULD NOT advise anyone to do an AOS
from a tourist visa mainly because if you are anything like me the amount of stress i
put myself through worrying about whats going to happen at the interview is all
consuming and if i could turn back the clock i would do what we planned and have
returned to the UK and when we were ready done a spousal visa. I know there are
people on this newsgoup who have had success with their AOS but from my point of view
i like everything to be settled and visa in hand before i do anything. In the end we
did the AOS because the INS told us that we could,neither of us realised its not
really "the done thing". Just my opinion but something you should bare in mind.

Can I make a suggestion? Have you intended come visit and make this decision when he is here... .then you are not planning the wedding beforehand...and he would not be telling a fib when entering the country.... we didn't even know this was a possiblity till my husband was here and two days away from leaving... when his plane was overbooked we took it as a sign.. he stayed and we got married, and we have not had any trouble... we heard it was 30 days you should wait and we waited about 40... so far so good... we had AOS last month and green card is due any day!
Good Luck!

Re: Oh My God!
 

peter d'souza wrote:
    > There was an interesting post recently by MUDALL ,an attorney.I think u should read
    > it. If he comes on a tourist visa, & if questioned at POE & admits he has a fiancee
    > he could be refused entry.On the other hand if he denies it then rem it could cause
    > problems later at AOSS Interview (ex u will not be able to show then any evidence
    > like phone bills letters relating to before his entry)

He could use any evidence that doesn't indicate they were fiances. After all, where
does it show an engagement on a phone bill? The question asks if you have a fiance,
not whether you know any women that might become a fiance.

I think the point is is that this method is not *guaranteed* to work, especially if you *are* planning on marrying on the trip. While many people feel that it is worth the risk, it is a strange thing for a lawyer to recommend. No one is saying that the method doesn't work for most people, but it certainly doesn't work for all - and if you are one of the unlucky ones for whom it doesn't work, the penalties can be quite severe, certainly outweighing the one benefit of trying to circumvent the system.

Re: Oh My God!
 

See here:

-
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=tpgcft9uan8
22e%40corp.supernews.com

Andy.

--
I'm not really here - it's just your warped imagination. "Matta Harri"
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
om...
    >In article <[email protected]>, "Andy Platt" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Once you apply to adjust status, you are no longer in visa waiver status
and
    > > the laws regarding adjustment of status take priority. Of course, if you were
    > > concerned you could get AP, leave and re-enter so your previous
entry
    > > would be in AP.
    > Actually, I don't think that would help any and could be more problems: once you
    > re-enter on AP, I think you are in poorer legal light should an adjustment be
    > denied, frankly. I could be wrong on this. I think Matt Udall commented on this and
    > entrance on non-immigrant visa also, once upon a time: http://groups.google.com/gro-
    > ups?selm=20000105004504.16714.00000575%40ng-c
    > c1.aol.com&output=gplain
    > matta

Re: Oh My God!
 

Yes, I guess it IS true. Sometimes misinformation DOES continue to echo across the
'net to this day...

Paulgani

"Andy Platt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > See here:
-
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=tpgcft9uan8
    > 22e%40corp.supernews.com
    > Andy.
    > --
    > I'm not really here - it's just your warped imagination. "Matta Harri"
    > <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    >     ...
    > > In article <[email protected]>, "Andy Platt" <[email protected]>
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > > > Once you apply to adjust status, you are no longer in visa waiver
status
    > and
    > > > the laws regarding adjustment of status take priority. Of course, if
you
    > > > were concerned you could get AP, leave and re-enter so your previous
    > entry
    > > > would be in AP.
    > >
    > > Actually, I don't think that would help any and could be more problems: once you
    > > re-enter on AP, I think you are in poorer legal light should an adjustment be
    > > denied, frankly. I could be wrong on this. I think Matt Udall commented on this
    > > and entrance on non-immigrant visa also, once upon a time:
    > >
htt-
p://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20000105004504.16714.00000575%40ng-c
    > > c1.aol.com&output=gplain
    > >
    > > matta
    > >

Re: Re: Oh My God!
 

I just wanted to say that most people do it the way your lawyer recommended. On the INS website there are statistics on how many people adjust status on a finace visa vs. a tourist visa, the tourist visa adjustments are a lot higher.
I know lots of people who have done it this way in Los Angeles and have not had any trouble at all. Just be sure to wait 60 days.

Here is a link at the bottom you will see 67% of people use a different kind of visa to enter then file AOS.

http://k1.exit.com/touristfaq.html

Re: Oh My God!
 

"Aliluv" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Here is a link at the bottom you will see 67% of people use a different kind of
    > visa to enter then file AOS.
    > http://k1.exit.com/touristfaq.html

Heh heh, you're the first one to quote me to me. However, those stats are now old.
For FY2000 they are:

197,525 total spouses of USC who immigrated in FY2000

27% Entered with Immigrant Visa
6.7% Entered with K-1 Fiance Visa, Adjusted Status 66% Entered with other visa
(student, visa waiver, etc...), Adjusted Status

For FY1999 they were:

127,988 total spouses of USC who immigrated in FY1999

37% Entered with Immigrant Visa
7.6% Entered with K-1 Fiance Visa, Adjusted Status 59% Entered with other visa
(student, visa waiver, etc...), Adjusted Status

And of course, for FY 1998 they were:

151,172 - total spouses of USC who immigrated in FY1998

44,577 - 29% entered using an I-130 spousal Immigrant Visa 101,837 - 67% entered
using another visa, and filed AOS 4,758 - 3% entered using a K-1 fiance visa

Paulgani

Re: Oh My God!
 

    > I think the point is is that this method is not *guaranteed* to work, especially if
    > you *are* planning on marrying on the trip. While many people feel that it is
    > worth the risk, it is a strange thing for a lawyer to recommend. No one is saying
    > that the method doesn't work for most people, but it certainly doesn't work for all
    > - and if you are one of the unlucky ones for whom it doesn't work, the penalties
    > can be quite severe, certainly outweighing the one benefit of trying to circumvent
    > the system.

Just as a warning, my british husband and I entered the US with him on a visa waiver
before we got married and filed for AOS... Everything was proceeding smoothly until
the INS decided to consider our application abandoned because of a delay in getting
the medical results (there was a several-months backlog at the doctors') and
helpfully sent us an order of deportation, informing us that we have *no* rights to
an appeal or a hearing on the deportation matter because he signed all his rights
away when he signed the visa waiver!

So we're heading back to England...

Re: Oh My God!
 

Georgina,

have you tried to go to your local INS office, papers in hand, statement form doctor
about the back-log... sometimes, the INS is surprisingly unbureaucratic about such
"mistakes". As long as you can prove you were right...

SOme people in this NG had their AOS denied on the grounds that they never showed up
for fingerprinting when, in fact, they did. The couple went to the local INS and
sorted everything out - case re-opened and a happy ending...

- Des

    > Just as a warning, my british husband and I entered the US with him on a visa
    > waiver before we got married and filed for AOS... Everything was proceeding
    > smoothly until the INS decided to consider our application abandoned because of a
    > delay in getting the medical results (there was a several-months backlog at the
    > doctors') and helpfully sent us an order of deportation, informing us that we have
    > *no* rights to an appeal or a hearing on the deportation matter because he signed
    > all his rights away when he signed the visa waiver!
    > So we're heading back to England...