Karlheinz

Realized that this would be better suited to get posted in .marriage-based.

thanks for your help in advance!
---

Group,

the BCIS is working on my N400 application right now, I am scheduled
for fingerprinting mid-Nov.

Relationship is going through a crisis right now, nothing is for
certain at this point. (I have a 10 year GC, so I am fine as war as
that is concerned, only concern BCIS-wise is the citizenship).

The N-400 application was based on 3 years of marriage, 3 year PR etc.

a) what if my wife decides to separate (not legally, but move out)
from me?
b) what if we get divorced before the interview?
c) what if we get divorced before the oath?

Notice of Action back in the days (filed in September) mentioned
missing evidence, I guess they want to see joined checking account
etc. (didnt submit that).

d) What if we are separated and still have a joint account etc, not
change the owners of bills etc. (i.e. who is on the bills etc).

e) What if we would get divorced before the interview, I dont get
asked if I am still married etc, and take the oath later on? Illegal?
Revokation of citizenship possible?

If I am not able to complete the process b/c of divorce, do I have to
abandon the application, notify the BCIS or just wait for the
interview and tell them? Then reapply in 2+ years to file based on 5
year PR? Will the application fees get returned (not expecting it)?

ian-mstm

If one of you separates, the other does to! Right?


You will be asked - it's on the application form, and god help you if you lie to the immigration officer! If your naturalization is based on marriage to a USC, you must be married to *and* living with your spouse on the day of your oath ceremony. If you are not, you will not be allowed to naturalize at that time - no options! Your only choice then is to wait a further two years until you have been a PR for 5 years, and then naturalize based on residency.

Ian

Karlheinz

ian-mstm <member2954@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected] om>...
    > > The N-400 application was based on 3 years of marriage, 3 year PR etc.
    > >
    > > a) what if my wife decides to separate (not legally, but move out)
    > > from me?

    > > Notice of Action back in the days (filed in September) mentioned
    > > missing evidence, I guess they want to see joined checking account
    > > etc. (didnt submit that).
    > >
    > > d) What if we are separated and still have a joint account etc, not
    > > change the owners of bills etc. (i.e. who is on the bills etc).
    > >

    > You will be asked - it's on the application form, and god help you if
    > you lie to the immigration officer! If your naturalization is based on
    > marriage to a USC, you must be married to *and* living with your spouse
    > on the day of your oath ceremony. If you are not, you will not be
    > allowed to naturalize at that time - no options! Your only choice then
    > is to wait a further two years until you have been a PR for 5 years, and
    > then naturalize based on residency.

I see your point, however: what if we dont get divorced for the time
being, i.e. we are married on the day of the interview and the day of
the ceremony, but she is not living with me anymore?

When you said 'you must be living with your spouse on the day of the
oath ceremony', what if she e.g. stays in our house on the night of
that day? Technically, she would be living with me then 'on the day',
and I wouldnt be lying or anything..

Aside from that, what if she moves out for e.g. 3 months, but moves
back in way before the interview and the oath takes place?

Also, where in the application form is mentioned any of that? I
couldnt find anything in the guide and/or the instructions.

And, what if she officially never changes the address with her
employer, all the bills have both our names on it, there is plenty of
activity on the joint checking etc etc at the day of the interview and
the day of the oath etc?

Id like to ask one of the active immigration lawyers in this group,
maybe the guys from Kirberger & Associates or Mr Udall? What do you
guys think about this? Or Rete, what do you think about this?

I am not trying to lie or anything, just trying to make sure that my
wifes' current 'need space to figure myself out' thing doesnt affect
'my thing' I have going on with the BCIS. I already had paid all the
fees and have gotten permission from my home country to get the
USC-ship, that was an ordeal by itself. Kinda would have wished she
had informed me of her intentions beforehand, so I wouldnt have
applied in the first place (to avoid exactly the kind of issues I am
going through right now here), but she didnt, and I applied, and I
want to seal this deal if at all possible.


Many many thanks,
kh.

sphyrapicus

Page 18 Guide to Naturalization:

Eligibility:

If you:
Are currently married to and living with a U.S. citizen

AND

Have been married to and living with that same U.S. citizen for the past 3 years

AND

Your spouse has been a U.S. citizen for the past 3 years

http://uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/English.pdf

ian-mstm

[QUOTE=Karlheinz] Apparently, you don't understand the difference between living together and having a guest!


It's on page 1 of the application - the bit about married to and living with! If that isn't enough for you, on the day you take the oath of allegience, you must sign a form noting any changes in your status since your interview!


Sure you are! You can call it whatever you want but a lie of omission is still a lie!


So, which part of my original post didn't you understand? Okay, so you're out a few hundred dollars... big deal. Wait and apply 2 years from now when you can do it based on residency.

Despite what you may have read from time to time, do you actually think immigration officers are a bunch of idiots? If you're attempting to mislead USCIS, maybe you're not quite ready for naturalization. I'm pretty sure that's a big no-no! And, if at some point down the road they ever find out - and there are lots of folks who love to tell immigration a thing or two - you can be stripped of citizenship and deported. So, you tell me... is it worth it?

My advice? Suck it up, admit you got beat this time, and live to fight another day.

Ian

Anon

karlheinz wrote:

    >
    > I see your point, however: what if we dont get divorced for the time
    > being, i.e. we are married on the day of the interview and the day of
    > the ceremony, but she is not living with me anymore?
    >
    > When you said 'you must be living with your spouse on the day of the
    > oath ceremony', what if she e.g. stays in our house on the night of
    > that day? Technically, she would be living with me then 'on the day',
    > and I wouldnt be lying or anything..

Staying in the house once overnight is NOT the same as living there.

I think you are missing the intent of the law.

USA & Pakistan

I would have a nice long talk with your wife and find out what she is wanting to do and if there is any way to work out your problems. You guys have come so far to get to this point. What can you do to make this a relationship that you both want to be in?

Good Luck
Marnee

Karlheinz

I just asked some questions, no need to get all upset about this, Ian.

OK, so if the only clause is ' have been married and been living with
an US Citizen', that means that it is possible for us to separate for
a couple of months, just as long as she moves back in before the
interview/oath. 'have been living' can refer to the current/past when
she still is living with me as well the time when she moves back in.

all i needed to know then.

thanks guys.


ian-mstm <member2954@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected] om>...
    > Apparently, you don't understand the difference between living together
    > and having a guest!
    >
    > It's on page 1 of the application - the bit about married to and living
    > with! If that isn't enough for you, on the day you take the oath of
    > allegience, you must sign a form noting any changes in your status since
    > your interview!
    >
    > Sure you are! You can call it whatever you want but a lie of omission is
    > still a lie!
    >
    > So, which part of my original post didn't you understand? Okay, so
    > you're out a few hundred dollars... big deal. Wait and apply 2 years
    > from now when you can do it based on residency.
    >
    > Despite what you may have read from time to time, do you actually think
    > immigration officers are a bunch of idiots? If you're attempting to
    > mislead USCIS, maybe you're not quite ready for naturalization. I'm
    > pretty sure that's a big no-no! And, if at some point down the road they
    > ever find out - and there are lots of folks who love to tell immigration
    > a thing or two - you can be stripped of citizenship and deported. So,
    > you tell me... is it worth it?
    >
    > My advice? Suck it up, admit you got beat this time, and live to fight
    > another day.

ian-mstm

Since you're obviously dead set on twisting the law to suit your own interests, good luck to you for the future. I hope this doesn't come back to bite you in the ass.

Ian

Rete

It's his arse, Ian.

The gentleman has been told what the regulations state and the choice is his as to how he wishes to interpret them. Apparently he is either hard up for the money and doesn't want to waste what he has paid out for the N-400 or he has a reason for needing citizenship as quickly as possible. Perhaps there is more to why there are marital problems then just his wife who needs time to think. Remember, Ian, from when you became a citizenship last year, one of the reasons CIS states is most important to becoming a US Citizen is to be able to sponsor someone for immigration.

Good luck, Karl

R

Anon

karlheinz wrote:
    > I just asked some questions, no need to get all upset about this, Ian.
    >
    > OK, so if the only clause is ' have been married and been living with
    > an US Citizen', that means that it is possible for us to separate for
    > a couple of months, just as long as she moves back in before the
    > interview/oath. 'have been living' can refer to the current/past when
    > she still is living with me as well the time when she moves back in.
    >
    > all i needed to know then.

Is it really worth it?
Do you really need to fool USCIS just so you can get citizenship a
little early? Do you REALLY think that someone spending the night at
your house the night before your interview is the same as living with
you? If you really plan to do this, don't tell anyone. Why? If you tell
people, then if they every decide to tell USCIS, you need to worry. Why?
Fruadulently obtained citizenship can be revoked..
But.... you know this already. What are you looking for here, approval??
I doubt a lawyer is going to come out and tell you to do this. However,
I suggest you consult an attorney in the Sacramento area that can help
you out.

ian-mstm

Well, a bit late for that, eh?

Ian

Karlheinz

Rete <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected] om>...
    > > Since you're obviously dead set on twisting the law to suit your own
    > > interests, good luck to you for the future. I hope this doesn't come
    > > back to bite you in the ass.
    > >
    > > Ian
    >
    > It's his arse, Ian.
    >
    > The gentleman has been told what the regulations state and the choice is
    > his as to how he wishes to interpret them. Apparently he is either hard
    > up for the money and doesn't want to waste what he has paid out for the
    > N-400 or he has a reason for needing citizenship as quickly as possible.
    > Perhaps there is more to why there are marital problems then just his
    > wife who needs time to think. Remember, Ian, from when you became a
    > citizenship last year, one of the reasons CIS states is most important
    > to becoming a US Citizen is to be able to sponsor someone for
    > immigration.
    >
    > Good luck, Karl
    >
    > R
The money is certainly not the problem, I am making more than she
does. I am not set on twisting the law and I certainly wont risk my
visa or anything to get the citizenship either.

I am not sure why you are going off on this/me so much, I only asked a
couple of questions, and I understand the law and the requirements and
whatever.

All I wanted to know was if my citizenship based on marriage would be
'doomed' if shed move out for a little while, thinks about it and then
moves back in with me. OF COURSE, in case we separate for good,
divorce or havent worked our issues out by the time of the interview,
I will NOT pursue the naturalization at this time, but wait 2 more
years.

I will certainly NOT LIE under oath and doom my visa, that is TOTALLY
out of the question.

You guys need to chill out and hold back your judgement and opinions,
as I am certainly going through enough crap right now with a woman I
thought loves me (and who told me so as well, although she had other
thoughts at the time) and I dont need any sort of sh*t from people who
think they are above everything else.

kh.

Taterbug

Hey, I think many people on this forum have gone above and beyond to provide you with all of the information/guidance you need to go through this process rather smoothly. The people on this forum are very helpful and generous in providing information and support to all. If you think that you are being s-h-i-t on here, go to ILW.COM.....you ain't seen nothin' yet honey!!

ian-mstm

It's your turn to chill out. Not until this post have you made it clear that you "will certainly NOT LIE under oath and doom my visa". That tidbit of information was totally missing from anything you've written previously. So, if you think we were getting on your case, understand it was only because we had no idea you weren't deciding to break the law.

Yup - life sucks sometimes! Many of the folks here are currently going through or have already gone through separation and divorce - myself included. If you didn't want judgments and opinions, perhaps you should have stated your position clearly in the first post instead of leading us all down the garden path.

Ian