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Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena

Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena

Old Sep 13th 2002, 7:59 am
  #31  
Mrtravel
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Default Re: Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena

paulgani wrote:
    > "donahso" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > I have to agree with Mrtravel. I have owned websites in the past and currently
    > > have to maintain a few. My rule of thumb is: 'if you can't keep it current, don't
    > > put it up in the first place."
    > OK, well, then the K1 FAQ, at:
    > http://www.k1faq.com
    > should be immediately taken down. It's dated 2001, and I easily found a piece of
    > outdated and thus incorrect information on it (6.1.1).
    > Clearly, it's not being maintained, and clearly, it should be immediately removed.
    > After all, all those innocent dupes who might take that single web page as God's
    > word should absolutely be protected!

How helpful is a website if you can't trust it for accurate information? What would
be the point of using it if you have to revalidate everything on other sites. What if
the other site disagrees? Do you go for 3 of 2 or 3 of 6?

Another site's inability to provide accurate information would not be a reason for my
own site to contain invalid infuriation. If I am going to have a website it is going
to have accurate information while I have the time to keep it up to date. If I no
longer can keep it up to date, then it will be taken down, or the index page will be
changed to clearly indicate the site in in archived status, and provide a different
link to the information by clearly indicating it is a link to the archived site.
This would take only a few minutes to do.
 
Old Sep 13th 2002, 2:43 pm
  #32  
Mjones
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Default Re: Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena

Yes, its outdated. The owner of k1faq.com decided back on Sept 7, 2001, that his
domain was going to be the master copy of the FAQ, and edited my submissions. Since
the primary FAQ site is wherever I have control of the files, I decided not to send
any more updates, but I did authorize the owner to copy any file he wanted to keep
updated, from the site I *do* maintain. Hasn't been done yet. Meanwhile, we have a
website out there with a clever name. Whether k1faq.com is updated or removed or
whatever, doesn't matter to me, cause I can't do anything about it. I extend that
viewpoint to other possibly outdated sites. Only an extreme newbie or complete
dumb-ass would read only one site, or read any site *at all* and not attempt to
verify the information there. Another big-ass problem is that NO ONE is jumping
into this NG and creating sites anymore. We had a lot of people getting involved in
this sort of thing 4 years ago. The entire "newsgroup resource" concept is an
outdated dinosaur, full of errors, outdated information, over-rated and over-relied
upon. Possibly we should take all the pages down, and just let folks post here day
by day. Mike
--
http://www.txdirect.net/us-
ers/mike38/faq_index.htm
MSBE http://www.txdirect.net/users/mike38/k1faq.htm K Visa FAQ


"paulgani" <[email protected]> wrote >
    > OK, well, then the K1 FAQ, at:
    > http://www.k1faq.com should be immediately taken
    > down. It's dated 2001, and I easily found a piece of outdated and thus incorrect
    > information on it (6.1.1). Clearly, it's not being maintained, and clearly, it
    > should be immediately removed. After all, all those innocent dupes who might take
    > that single
web
    > page as God's word should absolutely be protected! Paulgani
 
Old Sep 13th 2002, 2:45 pm
  #33  
Marilou920
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Default Re: Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena

    >Subject: Re: Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena From: "Grinch"
    >[email protected] Date: 9/12/02 4:52 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id:
    ><[email protected] nk.net>
    >"Marilou920" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >> I don't care about those lawyers. I learn to research thing at foriegn
    >affairs
    >> manual. I read this at Doc steen site and it tremedously help me just
    >reading
    >> it. Alvena too. Why udall have so much time on message board, I expect him to be
    >> busy
    >at
    >> his office not here.
    >You might want to invest in some English lessons rather than spending time posting
    >bullshit on here.
    >Grinch
I don't care about your criticism about my lingo. You must invest your attitude in
some kind of public ethics. I'm a foreigner and I can understand and speak english.
Pretty sure you can't even speak any single foreign langauges at all. So stop being a
grinch, the main essence of this conversation is about Mat Udall. If you want to
write a perfect flawless English grammar, you don't belong here. Join the journalism
message board, there are highfalutin unheard english. Good luck. Oh by the way I'm
asian and I can speak Duetch and french. Not to brag, before you grinch out of me,
check you damn grammar. I read many of your previous posts attacking people on this
board. I didn't pay much attention, because my PURPOSE is to read others idea and
opinion not the way they convey in perfect grammar.

 
Old Sep 13th 2002, 2:48 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena

Originally posted by Paulgani:
I manage a lot of servers, and am constantly searching for various technical
documents and references on the internet. There are FAQs on every possible subject,
concept, software revision, standard, etc... that you can think of. Many of them are
outdated. That's perfectly fine with me - I would rather that the information BE
there, as opposed to pulled off the net the second someone thinks it is not the most
current information. Now, it's true, in the wrong hands, applying say, a 2 year old
patch to a current version of software could be disasterous. But I'm not an idiot -
and I take possibly outdated information for what it's worth - i.e. a starting point
to learn about the concept, or patch, or whatever I'm seeking.

I fear the day that someone will one day be held liable for outdated information
posted on the Internet. Imagine the resources that would be suddenly be unavailable
to all, as sites everywhere pulled information that they just thought might be a bit
outdated ? What if Google was sued for some newsgroup post that someone made 10
years ago which Google archived? As far as I'm concerned, if a piece of information
is correct AT THE TIME IT WAS POSTED, it should remain available forever. Of course,
if you know something is wrong, you shouldn't post it in the first place, unless of
course you've made it clear that you're just posting your opinion or being satirical
or whatever.

I vote that all information can and should remain available on the Internet, outdated
or not. Perhaps it would be a good idea for the maintainer of the site to comment
that they know some information is outdated. But pulling the information would be a
very bad idea.

Paulgani

"mrtravel" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I didn't say they were bad people. If the information is KNOWN to be wrong, then it
    > should be there, disclaimer or no disclaimer. A disclaimer is for when you aren't
    > sure of content. If you are sure it is wrong, then you don't disclaim it, you
    > change or remove it. There is no point in having the website up if you know it
    > contains errors that could cause problems. So, while Matt might be wrong about the
    > motives of the site owner, it doesn't mean the existance of bad info shouldn't be
    > questioned. After all, if bad info is posted to this newsgroup, it is immediately
    > responded to.
---------------------------
Here's my 5c worth.

Some years back, say 5 years ago, webpages frequently contained the following information: "last updated <date>" somewhere on the page. This gave readers of the page an idea of how up-to-date the information contained was.

Nowadays, pages rarely have that information.

For the webpages that purport to provide information to the public, when the information on pages become outdated, the webmaster should add a couple of sentences to explain that the information is outdated and the page is still available for historical purposes.

Otherwise, the less savvy users of search engines may not realise they are looking at outdated information.

Does anybody else agree?
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Old Sep 13th 2002, 2:57 pm
  #35  
Septmorn89
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Default Re: Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena

    >Subject: Re: Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena From: [email protected]
    >(Marilou920) Date: 9/13/02 9:45 AM Central Daylight Time Message-id:
    ><[email protected]>
    >>Subject: Re: Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena From: "Grinch"
    >>[email protected] Date: 9/12/02 4:52 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id:
    >><[email protected] ink.net>
    >>"Marilou920" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >>> I don't care about those lawyers. I learn to research thing at foriegn
    >>affairs
    >>> manual. I read this at Doc steen site and it tremedously help me just
    >>reading
    >>> it. Alvena too. Why udall have so much time on message board, I expect him to be
    >>> busy
    >>at
    >>> his office not here.
    >>You might want to invest in some English lessons rather than spending time posting
    >>bullshit on here.
    >>Grinch
    >I don't care about your criticism about my lingo. You must invest your attitude in
    >some kind of public ethics. I'm a foreigner and I can understand and speak english.
    >Pretty sure you can't even speak any single foreign langauges at all. So stop being
    >a grinch, the main essence of this conversation is about Mat Udall. If you want to
    >write a perfect flawless English grammar, you don't belong here. Join the journalism
    >message board, there are highfalutin unheard english. Good luck. Oh by the way I'm
    >asian and I can speak Duetch and french. Not to brag, before you grinch out of me,
    >check you damn grammar. I read many of your previous posts attacking people on this
    >board. I didn't pay much attention, because my PURPOSE is to read others idea and
    >opinion not the way they convey in perfect grammar.
You go girl Marilou. Getting tired of reading scumbag grinch nonsence post. He might
want to brush up some grammar lessons rather than spending time posting flaming
bullshit on here. He's good at running off women on message board.
 
Old Sep 13th 2002, 2:57 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena

Yes. I agree. The practice of 'date last updated' ought to be continued. I figure some sites left that info out because it doesn't want to be associated as an 'outdated website'.

FWIW, perhaps the (Alvena) site in question here should add that so as to ensure no one takes the info as 'the latest, updated todate'.

IAC, whoever visits the site for info should be well aware to do further research, preferably with the relevant authority, as far as monetary figures/periods/etc are concerned.

Personally, I'd give the benefit of the doubt here and believe that such further research is done.



Originally posted by NC Penguin:

---------------------------
Here's my 5c worth.

Some years back, say 5 years ago, webpages frequently contained the following information: "last updated <date>" somewhere on the page. This gave readers of the page an idea of how up-to-date the information contained was.

Nowadays, pages rarely have that information.

For the webpages that purport to provide information to the public, when the information on pages become outdated, the webmaster should add a couple of sentences to explain that the information is outdated and the page is still available for historical purposes.

Otherwise, the less savvy users of search engines may not realise they are looking at outdated information.

Does anybody else agree?
gardencity is offline  
Old Sep 13th 2002, 3:07 pm
  #37  
Marilou920
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Default Re: Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena

    >Subject: Re: Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena From: [email protected]
    >(Septmorn89) Date: 9/13/02 9:57 AM Central Daylight Time Message-id:
    ><[email protected]>
    >>Subject: Re: Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena From: [email protected]
    >>(Marilou920) Date: 9/13/02 9:45 AM Central Daylight Time Message-id:
    >><[email protected]>
    >>>Subject: Re: Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena From: "Grinch"
    >>>[email protected] Date: 9/12/02 4:52 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id:
    >>><[email protected] link.net>
    >>>"Marilou920" <[email protected]> wrote in message [url="news:20020912174754.2-[/q3]
[q3]>>>[email protected]"]news:[email protected][-

    >>>/url]...
    >>>> I don't care about those lawyers. I learn to research thing at foriegn
    >>>affairs
    >>>> manual. I read this at Doc steen site and it tremedously help me just
    >>>reading
    >>>> it. Alvena too. Why udall have so much time on message board, I expect him to be
    >busy
    >>>at
    >>>> his office not here.
    >>>You might want to invest in some English lessons rather than spending time posting
    >>>bullshit on here.
    >>>Grinch
    >>I don't care about your criticism about my lingo. You must invest your attitude in
    >>some kind of public ethics. I'm a foreigner and I can understand and
    >speak
    >>english. Pretty sure you can't even speak any single foreign langauges at all. So
    >>stop being a grinch, the main essence of this conversation is about Mat Udall. If
    >>you want to write a perfect flawless English grammar, you don't belong here. Join
    >>the journalism message board, there are highfalutin
    >unheard
    >>english. Good luck. Oh by the way I'm asian and I can speak Duetch and french. Not
    >>to brag, before you grinch out of me, check you damn grammar. I read
    >many
    >>of your previous posts attacking people on this board. I didn't pay much attention,
    >>because my PURPOSE is to read others idea and opinion not the
    >way
    >>they convey in perfect grammar.
    >You go girl Marilou. Getting tired of reading scumbag grinch nonsence post. He might
    >want to brush up some grammar lessons rather than spending time posting flaming
    >bullshit on here. He's good at running off women on message board.
Yes, I know what you mean. My aversion to negative person like him leaves me little
to discuss at coffee breaks.
 
Old Sep 13th 2002, 3:09 pm
  #38  
Grinch
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Default Re: Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena

"Marilou920" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    > I don't care about your criticism about my lingo. You must invest your
attitude
    > in some kind of public ethics. I'm a foreigner and I can understand and
speak
    > english. Pretty sure you can't even speak any single foreign langauges at
all.

Actually I am a foreigner too and I can carry out simple conversations in French,
German and Dutch but that has nothing to do with this discussion.

    > So stop being a grinch, the main essence of this conversation is about Mat Udall.

The reason I responded was YOUR comment in this thread. I quote it here in case
you forgot.

"Why udall have so much time on message board, I expect him to be busy at his
office not here"

What the **** is your interest in what Mr Udall does in his daily life?Are you a
client of his? Are you married to him? Have you ever spoken to him? Have you ever met
him? What expectations do you have of everyone else who posts on here?

    > Oh by the way I'm asian and I can speak Duetch and french.

You may be able to speak Dutch....but it would further your cause if you could at
least spell it right.

Grinch
 
Old Sep 13th 2002, 4:38 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena

Originally posted by Grinch:
"Marilou920" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    > I don't care about your criticism about my lingo. You must invest your
attitude
    > in some kind of public ethics. I'm a foreigner and I can understand and
speak
    > english. Pretty sure you can't even speak any single foreign langauges at
all.

Actually I am a foreigner too and I can carry out simple conversations in French,
German and Dutch but that has nothing to do with this discussion.

    > So stop being a grinch, the main essence of this conversation is about Mat Udall.

The reason I responded was YOUR comment in this thread. I quote it here in case
you forgot.

"Why udall have so much time on message board, I expect him to be busy at his
office not here"

What the **** is your interest in what Mr Udall does in his daily life?Are you a
client of his? Are you married to him? Have you ever spoken to him? Have you ever met
him? What expectations do you have of everyone else who posts on here?

    > Oh by the way I'm asian and I can speak Duetch and french.

You may be able to speak Dutch....but it would further your cause if you could at
least spell it right.

Grinch
--------------------------------
The "scores on the doors" are currently,
Grinch 1 Marilou920 nil

Will there be a Round 2?
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Old Sep 13th 2002, 7:11 pm
  #40  
Mdudall
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Default Re: Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena

    >In fact, every single time the immigration laws are changed, some item in some
    >immigration book becomes outdated. Perhaps we need to campaign Congress to pass a
    >law that requires the destruction of all immigration law related books everytime a
    >new immigration law is passed.

Hi Paul. This is an interesting discussion you are all having on the topic of
possibly outdated information. As far as the part of your posting above, I can tell
you that when I subscribed to Matthew Bender's library, that yes, whenever a change
was made in the law, within a few days I would receive new pages to put into the
Bender's Binder and instructions about which "old" pages to remove. Of course this is
a "paid for" subscription used by many attorneys who work in this field, and I'll bet
you could also find this resource for free at your local law library. There are many
law libraries out there where the public is invited to visit and use the resources. I
don't use Bender anymore, but the library I do use also gives me pretty much
"immediate" updates when changes are made, plus I also have the AILA info-net which
gives the membership immediate news about the changes.

The government itself posts these changes in the law right in the Federal Register.
That is their way to get the word out to the public. I believe even the new fee
increases that went into effect last February were posted there. They did not destroy
and recall all of the old forms out there that contained the old filing fee
information. I personally think they "should" do that, but that's out of my control.

The fees posted on Alvena's site are also out of my control, but not the webmasters.
I know the new fees were known to the webmaster (as she visits this news group, and
that information was widely publicized on this group back then), and judging at the
speed in which the "list of recommendations" language was changed to "these are not
recommendations" language once my e-mail was received, and the speed in which my
posting on 09/11/02 was censored, I think it's a rather weak argument for the
webmaster to now say it was reasonable not to take 10 minutes to update the new fees.
After all, that site is linked all the time by people, pointing to it as "the" source
of information for the do-it-yourselfers (and I admit, it's a pretty good site).
Isn't that pretty much what the guy who republished my posting of 09/11/02 in this
news group said himself?

OK, I just took a second to go visit the fee chart on Alvena's site again. I see that
the webmaster has now all of a sudden found the time to update the chart by
"removing" the fee amounts for the I-485 and I-765, however I did notice that she did
not bother removing the fee amount for fingerprinting, and it "STILL" contains the
wrong information. Alvena, its now $50.00, not $25.00.

As far as my old "story" I once posted about someone coming through the airport,
that was a story told to me by my old immigration profession, Judge Leadbetter. At
the time, he was the top IJ in San Francisco, and he said that when he goes through
immigration he does not kid around. He said he does not dare joke around at the
POE, and its "yes sir" "no sir". Just because he's an immigration judge does not
change anything.

As to one of your other postings in this thread where you mention that the first
thing on her page is the language about, "this is not a recommendation", that is not
entirely accurate. Actually, the very first thing on that page is, "Entering the U.S.
on a tourist visa or visa waiver, if one has the intent to marry and file for
adjustment after entry". This very first statement outlines the purpose of the tips
contained on the page, describes the very essence of an illegal act committed at the
point of entry (granted, if they make it "past" the POE, then its probably not going
to be a big deal, but they could also get snagged at the POE and possibly even be
banned for a number of years). If you read the tips, they are clearly written for
people who are currently outside the U.S. and who want to fool the INS officer at the
POE so they can "immigrate" to the U.S. using a non-immigrant visa (not just a
"visit" as you have described). That's OK with me if someone wants to take that risk,
and as I used to say to you long ago in our first debates, I'm not so much concerned
with those who do get away with it (the innocent couples, I am concerned about the
"next" group of terrorists who may follow these tips), and more concerned about those
who don't (get snagged at the POE and perhaps have their plans for a life in the U.S.
ruined for a number of years).

Yes, the terrorists that did 09/11/01 are dead now so her page is not going to help
them, but what about the next group. Do you really think it's a good idea to go out
of the way to spoon feed tips to the next potential group of "bad guys"? Again, my
thoughts were expressed on the anniversary of 09/11/01, after watching much of the
coverage that day. When 09/12/02 arrived, I sort of breathed a sign of relief, and I
realized that I was more "uptight" during
09/11/02 than I though I was.

As to my "blood money" characterization, I apologize to Alvena for that as I assumed
the ads also appeared on all of the pages on her site. I assumed incorrectly, and she
obviously does not gain advertising revenue for the dangerous tips she posts on that
page. So her money is not soaked in American blood after all. Her "fingertips" that
she uses to give out that information on her page and in other postings (look for the
key words "clean entry"), well that "could" be a different story.

Matthew
 
Old Sep 13th 2002, 9:07 pm
  #41  
Marilou920
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Default Re: Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena

    >Subject: Re: Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena From: "Grinch"
    >[email protected] Date: 9/13/02 10:09 AM Central Daylight Time Message-id:
    ><[email protected] nk.net>
    >"Marilou920" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >> I don't care about your criticism about my lingo. You must invest your
    >attitude
    >> in some kind of public ethics. I'm a foreigner and I can understand and
    >speak
    >> english. Pretty sure you can't even speak any single foreign langauges at
    >all.
    >Actually I am a foreigner too and I can carry out simple conversations in French,
    >German and Dutch but that has nothing to do with this discussion.
    >> So stop being a grinch, the main essence of this conversation is about Mat Udall.
    >The reason I responded was YOUR comment in this thread. I quote it here in case
    >you forgot.
    >"Why udall have so much time on message board, I expect him to be busy at his office
    >not here"
    >What the **** is your interest in what Mr Udall does in his daily life?Are you a
    >client of his? Are you married to him? Have you ever spoken to him? Have you ever
    >met him? What expectations do you have of everyone else who posts on here?
    >> Oh by the way I'm asian and I can speak Duetch and french.
    >You may be able to speak Dutch....but it would further your cause if you could at
    >least spell it right.
    >Grinch
LOL you need to invest your time learning other foreign languages. Gee, Deutsch is
not a dutch language. It's a german!. I guess people are right, you are trash. It's
not worth to pay attention with your rubbish message.
 
Old Sep 13th 2002, 10:31 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena

Marilou920 wrote:
    > >> Oh by the way I'm asian and I can speak Duetch and french.
    > >
    > >You may be able to speak Dutch....but it would further your cause if you could at
    > >least spell it right.
    > >
    > >Grinch
    > >
    > LOL you need to invest your time learning other foreign languages. Gee, Deutsch is
    > not a dutch language. It's a german!. I guess people are right, you are trash. It's
    > not worth to pay attention with your rubbish message.

"Deutsch" is not how it looked in the previous message. It says "Duetch", which is
either missing a letter if you mean German, or has an extra letter if you mean Dutch.
Either way, it was wrong...
 
Old Sep 13th 2002, 11:48 pm
  #43  
Grinch
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Default Re: Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena

<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    > "Deutsch" is not how it looked in the previous message. It says "Duetch", which is
    > either missing a letter if you mean German, or has an extra letter if you mean
    > Dutch. Either way, it was wrong...


Thank you very much Mr. Travel. Here is the quote as it is clear Marilou has memory
issues as well as her comprehension abilities.

"Oh by the way I'm asian and I can speak Duetch and french. Not to brag, before you
grinch out of me, check you damn grammar"

By the way, just to continue the "improve your English" lesson:

Asian should look like this. It is a name, notice the capital "A" The same with
French and Grinch, both are names. Its interesting that you did actually capitalize
"Duetch" This could be a name of a long forgotten language maybe like Flemish but it
also may be the error Mr. Travel kindly pointed out.

"check you damn " This makes no sense. I think you mean "your"

Anyway glad I could be of help. I would still be interested in the response to my
question by the way. I will repeat it in case you missed it the first time round.

What the **** is your interest in what Mr. Udall does in his daily life?

Grinch
 
Old Sep 17th 2002, 5:40 am
  #44  
Andrew Defaria
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Default Re: Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena

donahso wrote:

    > I have to agree with Mrtravel. I have owned websites in the past and
    > currently have to maintain a few. My rule of thumb is: 'if you can't
    > keep it current, don't put it up in the first place."

Some of us have real lives and the "job" of maintaining a website such
that all parts are current, especially when we are not getting paid for
it (read that last part again as it is pertenent to the topic at hand)
often causes the task of updating the web site to fall lower in the
priority queue than other things which bring home the bacon as it were.
This does not mean, however, that the website becomes totally useless
just because some sections of it are not as up to date as could be.
Alveena doesn't get any income for this site (actually all she seems to
be getting is grief lately) so I'm sure she does not exactly make it
priority #1.

I used to run a web site - even got money from it from advertisers at
one time. But it become too much of a burden for me so I let the site
grow stale. That does not mean, however, that it is still not useful to
some people. All it means is that it is not 100% up to date.
 
Old Sep 18th 2002, 3:00 pm
  #45  
Selin
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Matt Udall's "temper tantrum" toward Alvena

Ranjini <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > Originally posted by Tina:
    > > You may be right, but that is still irresponsible language for an
    > > attorney. I hope Alvena does not get too upset at his attack. She
    > > is a good person. No one is perfect. She helped us out so much with
    > > the AOS. She does not deserve this blatant attack.
    > Alvena has been through this before. When her "activities" were
    > reported to the Kentucky bar association, by some unscrupulous person
    > who, no doubt, is thinking that some lawyer is losing business because
    > Alvena tells people how to do things without one. Your guess is good as
    > mine, but my instinct tells me that it was probably a lawyer whose
    > behind all of this. This really stinks. People like us have saved a
    > bunch of money, because of this newsgroup and people like Alvena. Not
    > everyone has a couple of thousand or more to spend on lawyers.
    > Ranjini

I can't believe this is happening again. I just posted a thank you
message and the first name that thank you went out to was Alvena's
name. Her help was invaluable to me as to many others. Because of this
newsgroup and many kind people, my husband and I were able to do this
without a lawyer's help which we were in no shape to have financial
means to do so when we first started. So, I'm not sure why Mr. Udall
is attacking Alvena with such harsh words. All she did was to try
helping people who were desperately seeking help on this newsgroup
because, some of them didn't have money to hire a lawyer, and even,
some of them with a lawyer, were in doubt that their lawyer might have
been fooling them.
I hope they come to a peaceful ground soon because both Alvena and Mr.
Udall are valuable sources to whom people go for advise on this
newsgroup. And we are all aware that Alvena is not a lawyer and her
advise comes from her own experience. We all use caution at any time
we read this newsgroup.
Thank you,
Selin
 

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