lion2010

Hi,

My girlfriend has been living and travelling back and forth between London and New York but is wanting to move here permanently in spring 2009. She will be coming over in September and we would like to get married - I'm a British male. What is the easiest way for her to be able to come here to marry. Since she will only have a 6 month travel option I was informed she would need to apply for a fiancee visa to come to get married? Or would it be easier some other way? I.e, I went to US to marry her there as I frequently work on short business trips quite frequently there? Would I need to apply for a fiancee visa as well and how long would this be if my intention was to marry her in US? What is the process?

Once we are married she would like to apply immediately for her perm visa (I believe this would be valid for 2 years and provided we are still married she could reapply after the two years for a perm visa to live and work in UK - would this also allow her to live/work in EU?) but how soon after the marriage if it went ahead in September would this take? Would be ideal to have her visa for UK all ready before she moves over perm in Spring 2009 - she may start a postgrad legal course or work in London.

We have also talked about the flipside, if she did not like living in UK I could seek a transfer with my company to New York - as I would then have option of either a work visa by my employee or applying for greencard? What is the process after marriage for me to do that and time period if we got married in either UK or US? Also, if we both had visas to live/work in UK/US would we loose them if we divorced? Is there a period of time we have to remain married so we would both keep visas - ie me greencard and her indefinite living/working visa for UK? I want to know every possible flipside if I take on a position and things did not work out between us if I relocated to US and then commited to a work position that I would loose if I lost my perm residence (greencard?).

We have not thought about dual citizenship at this stage and if we stay in London I would only file for a greencard to give us immediate option anytime to get up and get a life in US if we wanted to. But is it just a process of having to wait 3 years after marriage and then taking the marriage interview for her in UK embassy and me with US embassy?

Also, I know there are many questions, but would be interested to know expected costs along the way. I never thought marriage would have ever been this complicated but then I never thought I would be marrying a non-UK woman but she is worth all the process and wait.

Thanks!

Noorah101

Wow, lots of different questions with different avenues. It's actually hard for me to tell what your main goal really is, but let's see...

1. You can come to the USA on the VWP and marry your fiancee. If you are wanting to then live in the UK, she will apply for a spouse visa to go live there...I believe it takes a few weeks to obtain, and I have no idea how that all works in the UK for her permanent residency there, you'd have to ask those questions on a UK-based immigration forum.

2. You can come to the USA on a VWP and marry your fiancee. If you are wanting to then live in the USA, you will have to go back to the UK for your spouse Immigrant Visa processing, which takes about 8 to 10 months. Then you can enter on that visa, become a US Permanent Resident upon entry, and then continue to live and work in the USA. If your marriage is less than 2 year old, you'll get a 2-year green card, and will have to do more paperwork in 2 years (minus 90 days) to get your 10-year card.

3. I don't know what happens to her visa if you get divorced if you're living in the UK. If you are living in the USA and you have a 2-year green card, divorce could impact your green card. You would have to file for the 10-year card on your own, after divorce, with a waiver to the joint filing.

4. Other visas...if you come here on an L visa, by transfer through your employer, then you can marry your USC fiancee. You can either remain on your L visa for as long as that's allowed (not sure how long it is), or you can then apply to adjust your status to Permanent Resident. Divorce would have the same impact as the above paragraph.

5. Be aware that if you become a US PR, then you must make the US your permanent home. You can travel for short visits overseas for vacation or for work, usually less than 6 months at a time. If you plan to be gone longer than 6 months, you should apply for a re-entry permit and maintain your ties to the USA, an important one of which is filing a US tax return. In other words, you can't get a US green card and then go back and live in the UK for an extended time, or you risk abandoning your US PR status.

I think that covers most of your questions....if not, post again!

Rene

Noorah101

I should also mention that if it's your goal to live in the USA, and you've seen your fiancee recently, she can start the process for your K-1 fiance visa to the USA now. It takes 8 to 10 months to process, and with that visa you can also come to the USA with the intent to marry within 90 days and remain in the USA to adjust your status to permanent resident.

Just didn't want to leave that option out, if it appeals to you.

Rene

Noorah101

If she wants to go to the UK with the intent to marry you there, but not remain, then she needs to apply for a UK fiance visa. Do some searching on that visa, I think she can get it fairly quickly, like in a week or so.

If she wants to go to the UK with the intent to marry you and remain there, I think that's a different visa...spouse type visa..but again, check with a UK-based immigration forum for any questions you have about her immigrating to the UK.

This forum is really just for questions regarding immigrating to the USA.

Rene

Noorah101

As for cost, you listed so many alternatives, it's hard to say....but I would budget at least $2,500 no matter which way you go.

Rene

BritishGuy36

a) As you have been advised, the easiest way for her to come to the UK to get married is the fiance visa.

b) That may be easier (depends on your circumstances), if you get married there you can get your marriage certificate and take it to a British consulate (along with other required paperwork) and you can get her entry visa within a day or two. This is what I did with my wife (albeit 8 years ago), went over on the VWP, no visa required for the UKC, got married, went to consulate, submitted paperwork at 10am and had her visa in her passport at 4pm.

c) The visa for you to enter the US as a fiance is for the purpose of you staying there and adjusting status to receive a conditional green card. If you want to go there to marry then both of you return to England then you can go in on the VWP, it's she that needs the visa, to enter the UK.

d) She initially obtains an entry visa which is valid for two years. If she behaves herself during that time she can apply for "indefinite leave to remain" which is another visa document that they affix into her US passport. This allows her to enter at any time, as long as she is still resident in the UK. Once she is not resident in the UK, this visa will lapse at some future point.

e) No.

f) She already has the visa before she enters the UK.

g) Yes you would have both of those options, but the "marriage visa" (that's not what it's called but effectively that's what it is) is a far superior way to a green card than an employment-based visa to the US.

h) Presuming that she is going to be living in the UK on the appropriate entry visa then after 6 months she can petition for a visa number for you through the London Embassy/Consulate which will take another 5 or 6 months. So if she didn't like it in the UK you could both be back in the US inside a year.

i) That's not how it works. You can't both hold visas/green card for each other's countries and maintain them indefinitely. A visa has to be maintained by residency, and lack of residency will cause the visa to lapse (in both "directions").

The only way for you both to be able to live and work in bouth countries at will, would be for her to stay in the UK long enough to be eligible to apply for UK citizenship, then she gets her UK passport, then you get a visa for the US, go to live there and get your green card, and after 3 years you can apply to become a US citizen, and get your US passport. Then you are both dual nationals and can live and work in both countries for as long as you wish and no length of absense will bar you from returning. Obviously you are looking at a minimum of the best part of 10 years until you can be in that situation.

j) That's not how that works either. You can't apply for a visa for the US and keep it indefinitely to use when you want, it has to be used within 6 months of issue, or it lapses and you have to start the application process all over again. So when you want to go to the US you start the process and within 5 to 10 months (-ish, depending on visa type) you will be able to enter the US.

k) I believe I've covered this in the above answers.

l) I just did the same visa process as you would need to undertake to move to the US. I listed my costs here:

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showp...3&postcount=10

For her to come here on a fiance visa is not expensive at all and your travel costs and hotel expenses for your trip to the British consulate would probably be more than the fees involved in obtaining the fiance visa itself.

Moxie

Just wanted to add that getting a K1 fiance visa is the quickest marriage based visa in my opinion (to live in US). The timeframe varies widely by the two service centers and by the number of petitions filed. Vermont is currently fastest. I know people who filed in March and their total time to visa in hand has been 15 wks and two with 17 wks. Mine will be 20 weeks (pending interview success), but we asked for a delayed interview. Last summer there was a HUGE influx of all kinds of applications because fees were increasing. It took awhile for those to be processed. February was even faster than March has been. April applicants are waiting a month longer so far. It goes up and down. California Service center is currently slower by about 2 months for applications filed the same day. But that can change. If you have any issues like criminal record, drug abuse, mental illness, same name as a bad guy terrorist, then yours could take longer to clear.

Our cost is about $1200 for filing petition fees, photos, police certificate, medical exam in London and train fare there, visa application and delivery fees at Embassy, overnight stay in London before interview, etc. If you live in London, then the travel costs are tube fare. We did not use a lawyer, but some have that cost too.

And lastly, I wanted to say if you're already preparing your scenario for a possible divorce, you shouldn't even consider marriage. It's really difficult for one person to move to another country and cut themselves off from "home." So be sure about your committment before you proceed. And to answer the question again that you asked, if you get a green card in the US after your marriage in the US, it's only good for two years. That's a visa fraud thing. You have to prove that you have a real marriage of two years to get the permanent green card. Or in cases where (example) you came and were abused by your wife so you had to get away from her, if you could prove that you entered the marriage in good faith but were forced out before two years for your safety, then you could get the permanent card on your own. That's kinda over simplified, but you get the idea.

Noorah101

Can you expound on the visa fraud thing? I know lots of scenarios where a marriage broke up after a 2-year green card was issued, and yes, the alien had to prove the marriage was in good faith and file the removal of conditions on his/her own, but it doesn't mean there was visa fraud involved.

Divorce after the 2-year green card is issued does not constitue visa fraud in and of itself. There would have to be more to the story.

Rene

lion2010

Thanks for the detailed answers! This site and contributors are a FANTASTIC help!

So we have 2 options to get married.

Option 1. I fly to US and do not need to get any visa to enter for marriage (as we have not seen each other since last year, she is planning to stay with me for a month in September, so would it be better to wait for her to come here again before I go back to US to marry her??). I can simply enter under the VWP (would I need to tell them I'm coming to marry my girlfriend at entry to US or just say I'm visiting her??) and get married immediately then can book an appointment with British consulate for her 2 year UK temp work/living visa? This could be all done in say 2 weeks from arriving in US? She would then be able to come to the UK in September to live and work and after 2 years visa expiry go for an interview to prove we are still married etc and then be offered her perm UK work/live visa? After 3 years from marriage (or is that after 3 years from living in UK) she would be eligible for a British passport/citizenship?

Option 2. This seems more difficult and costly. I or she (?) files for a fiance visa to enter the US to get married (if she just came to UK and then tried to get married she would be breaking the law - even if she then went back immediately?) and would take a few weeks - we would need to send a letter of employment, bank details, pictures of us together, correspondence, proof of my house ownership and will take a few weeks to receive - some have said this is cheap and others said around $1000 (I need to look into cost of this). I've also been told she would have to wait 15 days before she could get married here on arrival and another 15 days after scheduling a wedding - so 30 days from arrival to UK. Then could get short term visa immediately almost in her passport after a trip to UK embassy.

For me,

If we wanted to take option 1, then I would leave US married and need to re-enter US on immigrant visa and once stepping back onto US soil would have my 2 year temp green card (which I would have to enter US and make perm residence within 6 months or would loose)? After getting married she would file for this immigrant visa for me and could take up to 5 months - to receive before I could return to US to collect temp 2 year greencard. As she is planning to move here in Spring 09, could I keep my residence US to maintain temp greencard and let her come here so if we wanted to relocate back to US later in 2009 I could just use this temp greencard (providing we made regular flights back before 6 months to see her family?) Then after 2 years renew for a perm greencard (10 year) - despite say us living in UK but keeping US as our perm residence and maintaining regular contact?

This whole marriage process is a lot more complicated that we initially thought! Although, currently we think our long term aim is for us both to live in UK we would like the quickest option for us to both consider living/working between the two when we wanted.

Thanks!

Noorah101

OK, these two options both seem to be for her immigrating to the UK, is that correct? Or at least, living in the UK for some time. If so, these need to be asked in a forum dealing with immigration to the UK. This one is strictly immigrating to the USA.

Rene

lion2010

Yes, but just thought I would mention them to see how they affect my US options.

Noorah101

No. If you want to take Option 1 that you mentioned, it still seems like that deals with her living permanently in the UK (or at least for a couple of years). With Option 1, you won't want to actually do anything for your own immigration to the USA, would you? Because when you relocate to the UK for 2 years or so, you risk losing all you've worked for to get your green card. Just much easier not even to go that route to begin with, if you're going to abandon it later.

Simply flying back to see her family every 6 months is not enough. You need to make the USA your permanent home, and be away temporarily. Yes, school is a good reason to be away temporarily, but your long term goal sounds more like you guys want to settle down in the UK.

Think of it this way. It's now June of 2008. By the time you finish either the fiance or spouse visa for YOUR immigration to the USA, it will be around March 2009 (more or less). Six months later, you guys are going to pack up and go stay in the UK for around 2 years. To me, it doesn't make sense to do all your immigration hassle and expense, only to turn around soon and leave it behind to live in the UK.

Am I following you goals correctly, and does my logic make sense to you?

Rene

Noorah101

I don't think they are as related as you're thinking they are. For your marriage, if you want that to happen in the USA, you can simply show up in the USA on your VWP and get married. After that, it's all about getting her the correct visa to move to the UK, if your plan is to stay in the UK.

Noorah101

If you want to live/work between the two countries whenever you want to, you will have to focus on one person getting citizenship in the other's country first. Then make the move to the other country, and the other person getting citizenship there. Only when you are both dual citizens can you have the freedom to move about at will.

Otherwise, one or the other of you will always be risking losing PR status in the other's country.

Rene

Noorah101

Correct. This process you are talking about takes about 8 to 10 months. So if you marry in July 2008, you might have your Immigrant Visa by March - May 2009. When you enter the USA at that time, you become a US PR, and will receive a 2-year green card. It's not temporary, it's just valid for 2 years.

I think here you are referring to the Immigrant Visa, which is valid for 6 months. So if you get your Immigrant Visa in March 2009, you have until Sept 2009 to use it.

In reality, this takes more like 8 to 10 months.

Oops, I thought she was going to the UK in Sept 2009. Is she going in Spring 2009?? That's about the time you'll be receiving your Immigrant Visa. So let's say you get your Immigrant Visa, you come to the USA, you become a US PR upon entry. Then a month later or so, you guys want to return to the UK for her studies. You guys would need to maintain the US as your permanent home, have an open bank account, a residence of some sort, and file a US joint tax return, *at the very least*. Plus, before leaving the USA, you'd need to apply for a re-entry permit (since you'll be gone longer than 1 year). The re-entry permit allows an alien to be outside the USA for longer than 1 year without abandoning PR status. It's no guarantee, but it helps show that you don't intend to abandon your PR status.

You don't renew the 2-year card. During the 90-day window, just prior to 2 years after the date you became a PR, you need to file another form plus show lots of backup of your joint life together IN THE USA. There is only that 90 day window to do this filing. The filing can be done from abroad, but you must be in the USA for your biometrics associated with that. There might be an interview involved with that, if so you'd both need to come to the USA to attend that. If that gets approved, then you receive a 10-year green card.

I hope that sort of clears it up more for you.

Personally I think your goals are not geared toward life in the USA right now, and going through US Immigration for you won't really be very productive at this point. Just my opinion.

Rene