married to USC but still legally married to other
May 26th 2003, 1:23 pm
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: married to USC but still legally married to other
I would think that she can get a divorce in Haiti, the divorce is legal in
the US as long as she was resident there which for Haiti means she stay
something like 24hrs in the country. Ireland was the same as the
Philipinnes, presume it is the Catholic church thing, finally Ireland got
into the 20th Century and has divorce now BUT takes 5 years in total, 4
years away from each other and only then can the divorce be filed.
My question would be considering the mess that there is, why not just get
the Haitian divorce, get a K1 visa, marry again and never mention the first
wedding, considering state to state laws etc it may just slip through the
cracks and ALSO who is to say that it was her that he married? I know in
Ireland we have no Social Security number and so it makes it quite difficult
to track people. The one who may still need a US divorce is her boyfriend,
he is VERY trackable cuase I am sure it was him who filed for the license.
the US as long as she was resident there which for Haiti means she stay
something like 24hrs in the country. Ireland was the same as the
Philipinnes, presume it is the Catholic church thing, finally Ireland got
into the 20th Century and has divorce now BUT takes 5 years in total, 4
years away from each other and only then can the divorce be filed.
My question would be considering the mess that there is, why not just get
the Haitian divorce, get a K1 visa, marry again and never mention the first
wedding, considering state to state laws etc it may just slip through the
cracks and ALSO who is to say that it was her that he married? I know in
Ireland we have no Social Security number and so it makes it quite difficult
to track people. The one who may still need a US divorce is her boyfriend,
he is VERY trackable cuase I am sure it was him who filed for the license.
May 26th 2003, 1:31 pm
#32
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Originally posted by Dekka's Angel
She has actually committed her bigamy in the US, because it is the *second* marriage that is bigamous and void, not the first. Short of undoing her first marriage in the Philippines, any subsequent marriage will be bigamous and void.
I'm wracking my brain trying to imagine a US court exercising jurisdiction over her first marriage at all and giving her a decree saying "divorced from Husband 1 and free to marry" without any jurisdiction over her first husband, who is still alive and not physically in the US. He does not appear to have submitted himself or his marriage to the jurisdiction of a US court and without that a US Court has extremely limited power over that marriage. I trust Folinskyinla who hints this is doable without her having to return to the Philippines, but this is definitely a legal contortionist act that has so many conditions precedent for it succeeding that it's mind-boggling.
She has actually committed her bigamy in the US, because it is the *second* marriage that is bigamous and void, not the first. Short of undoing her first marriage in the Philippines, any subsequent marriage will be bigamous and void.
I'm wracking my brain trying to imagine a US court exercising jurisdiction over her first marriage at all and giving her a decree saying "divorced from Husband 1 and free to marry" without any jurisdiction over her first husband, who is still alive and not physically in the US. He does not appear to have submitted himself or his marriage to the jurisdiction of a US court and without that a US Court has extremely limited power over that marriage. I trust Folinskyinla who hints this is doable without her having to return to the Philippines, but this is definitely a legal contortionist act that has so many conditions precedent for it succeeding that it's mind-boggling.
I remember that I went to law school a LONG time before you did. Jurisdiction in dissolution cases is "in rem" where the marriage is -- and that is on the back of ONE of the parties to the marriage. PI lady lives in California, been here for six months, then California has in rem jurisidiction over the marriage -- the only process due hubby in PI is service of process and registered mail will do just fine [just watch of out the international convention on service of process -- most of the case law involves Germany -- if you get into an accident in your VW or Mercedes and want to get long-arm jurisdiction over the German manufacture, be careful. The case law is interesting on this.]
May 26th 2003, 2:34 pm
#33
Howling at the Moon
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: Incline Village, NV
Posts: 3,742
Don't know a thing about divorce in CA. Here in Washoe County residence is six weeks for an adult - six months for a child in custody cases.
Just love the international service of process stuff.. counting the days etc.
My intial request for service was denied without predjudice by the court as they claimed that due process hadn't been served (they were wrong). The court clerk finally checked and backed down after I recounted Klepper v Klepper on the phone.. my divorce attorney just laughed.
I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. He figured he was being entertained as he had the NRS ready to cite and didn't need to.
Just love the international service of process stuff.. counting the days etc.
My intial request for service was denied without predjudice by the court as they claimed that due process hadn't been served (they were wrong). The court clerk finally checked and backed down after I recounted Klepper v Klepper on the phone.. my divorce attorney just laughed.
I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. He figured he was being entertained as he had the NRS ready to cite and didn't need to.
May 26th 2003, 2:42 pm
#34
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,350
Originally posted by Folinskyinla
Angel:
I remember that I went to law school a LONG time before you did. Jurisdiction in dissolution cases is "in rem" where the marriage is -- and that is on the back of ONE of the parties to the marriage. PI lady lives in California, been here for six months, then California has in rem jurisidiction over the marriage -- the only process due hubby in PI is service of process and registered mail will do just fine [just watch of out the international convention on service of process -- most of the case law involves Germany -- if you get into an accident in your VW or Mercedes and want to get long-arm jurisdiction over the German manufacture, be careful. The case law is interesting on this.]
Angel:
I remember that I went to law school a LONG time before you did. Jurisdiction in dissolution cases is "in rem" where the marriage is -- and that is on the back of ONE of the parties to the marriage. PI lady lives in California, been here for six months, then California has in rem jurisidiction over the marriage -- the only process due hubby in PI is service of process and registered mail will do just fine [just watch of out the international convention on service of process -- most of the case law involves Germany -- if you get into an accident in your VW or Mercedes and want to get long-arm jurisdiction over the German manufacture, be careful. The case law is interesting on this.]
I definitely do not question that you are older, wiser and more experienced and that was never my intent so I hope you do not take my comments as such. You are absolutely correct on the question of jurisdiction when we're dealing with California, a fact that the OP told you privately that she did not disclose publicly on the NG and thus was unknown to me. Since California is a no-fault state, she will eventually get her divorce decree, no question -- once she rides out the 6 month jurisdictional limit following service. And she lucks out on the nullity side too - since she does not appear to fall into the "exceptions" requiring a nullity decree under Family Code 2201(a)(2).
Looks like her lucky day. At least as far as she is concerned. I'll shut up now.
Last edited by Dekka's Angel; May 26th 2003 at 2:45 pm.
May 27th 2003, 2:19 am
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: married to USC but still legally married to other
A quick question here, how can she get a divorce in California if she is not
legally here, ie. in a month she will be out of status and so not legally in
US and so would not be able to get a divorce in California?
Just a question
Patrick
"lairdside" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Don't know a thing about divorce in CA. Here in Washoe County residence
> is six weeks for an adult - six months for a child in custody cases.
> Just love the international service of process stuff.. counting
> the days etc.
> My intial request for service was denied without predjudice by the court
> as they claimed that due process hadn't been served (they were wrong).
> The court clerk finally checked and backed down after I recounted
> Klepper v Klepper on the phone.. my divorce attorney just laughed.
> I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. He figured he was being
> entertained as he had the NRS ready to cite and didn't need to.
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
legally here, ie. in a month she will be out of status and so not legally in
US and so would not be able to get a divorce in California?
Just a question
Patrick
"lairdside" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Don't know a thing about divorce in CA. Here in Washoe County residence
> is six weeks for an adult - six months for a child in custody cases.
> Just love the international service of process stuff.. counting
> the days etc.
> My intial request for service was denied without predjudice by the court
> as they claimed that due process hadn't been served (they were wrong).
> The court clerk finally checked and backed down after I recounted
> Klepper v Klepper on the phone.. my divorce attorney just laughed.
> I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. He figured he was being
> entertained as he had the NRS ready to cite and didn't need to.
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
May 27th 2003, 2:51 am
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: married to USC but still legally married to other
Originally posted by Patrick
A quick question here, how can she get a divorce in California if she is not
legally here, ie. in a month she will be out of status and so not legally in
US and so would not be able to get a divorce in California?
Just a question
Patrick
"lairdside" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Don't know a thing about divorce in CA. Here in Washoe County residence
> is six weeks for an adult - six months for a child in custody cases.
> Just love the international service of process stuff.. counting
> the days etc.
> My intial request for service was denied without predjudice by the court
> as they claimed that due process hadn't been served (they were wrong).
> The court clerk finally checked and backed down after I recounted
> Klepper v Klepper on the phone.. my divorce attorney just laughed.
> I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. He figured he was being
> entertained as he had the NRS ready to cite and didn't need to.
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
A quick question here, how can she get a divorce in California if she is not
legally here, ie. in a month she will be out of status and so not legally in
US and so would not be able to get a divorce in California?
Just a question
Patrick
"lairdside" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Don't know a thing about divorce in CA. Here in Washoe County residence
> is six weeks for an adult - six months for a child in custody cases.
> Just love the international service of process stuff.. counting
> the days etc.
> My intial request for service was denied without predjudice by the court
> as they claimed that due process hadn't been served (they were wrong).
> The court clerk finally checked and backed down after I recounted
> Klepper v Klepper on the phone.. my divorce attorney just laughed.
> I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. He figured he was being
> entertained as he had the NRS ready to cite and didn't need to.
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
In Texas you can go to college and, though you can't work, you can pay your taxes on that work you're not doing
Sorry, couldn't resist
Regards
-=-
Scarlett
(legal and therefore not able to work - doh!)
May 27th 2003, 2:55 am
#37
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Re: married to USC but still legally married to other
Originally posted by Patrick
A quick question here, how can she get a divorce in California if she is not
legally here, ie. in a month she will be out of status and so not legally in
US and so would not be able to get a divorce in California?
Just a question
Patrick
"lairdside" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Don't know a thing about divorce in CA. Here in Washoe County residence
> is six weeks for an adult - six months for a child in custody cases.
> Just love the international service of process stuff.. counting
> the days etc.
> My intial request for service was denied without predjudice by the court
> as they claimed that due process hadn't been served (they were wrong).
> The court clerk finally checked and backed down after I recounted
> Klepper v Klepper on the phone.. my divorce attorney just laughed.
> I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. He figured he was being
> entertained as he had the NRS ready to cite and didn't need to.
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
A quick question here, how can she get a divorce in California if she is not
legally here, ie. in a month she will be out of status and so not legally in
US and so would not be able to get a divorce in California?
Just a question
Patrick
"lairdside" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Don't know a thing about divorce in CA. Here in Washoe County residence
> is six weeks for an adult - six months for a child in custody cases.
> Just love the international service of process stuff.. counting
> the days etc.
> My intial request for service was denied without predjudice by the court
> as they claimed that due process hadn't been served (they were wrong).
> The court clerk finally checked and backed down after I recounted
> Klepper v Klepper on the phone.. my divorce attorney just laughed.
> I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. He figured he was being
> entertained as he had the NRS ready to cite and didn't need to.
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
A very fair question -- divorce/dissolution of marriage is a matter of STATE and not Federal law. As long as one of the spouses is physically present in the jurisdiction of the tribunal, then that state's tribunals may choose to exercise jurisdiction.
California requires six months residence, Nevada requires 6 weeks. BTW, if BOTH spouse "appear" in the court in the US, then even a false finding of residence is immune from attack. BTW, I put "appearance" in quotes because it is NOT a physical presence. Once you have filed a formal pleading with the court, you have "appeared" befoe the court. So if a California resident goes to Nevada for a week and gets a "default" divorce, it will NOT be recognized. But if California goes to Nevada for a week and other spouse files an apperance of not contesting the divorce, then it WILL be valid even though neither was resident in Nevada.
Issues can get trickier when there is a second marriage, because the rule is slightly different -- the validity of the marriage is dependent upon the law of the place of celebration, including their rule on conflicts! The question is not whether the prior divorce is valid or not, but whether the law of the place of the second marriage will recognize that divorce as valid.
So lets say a resident of the PI goes to Hawaii as a non-immigrant and obtains a Hawaii divorce, the question is whether or not the **PI** will recognize the HW divorce. I have heard of several cases where the second marriage in the PI was not considered valid because the PI would not recognize the HW divorce.
This can be a very complicated issue.
May 27th 2003, 3:59 am
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: married to USC but still legally married to other
So again to clarify, if someone has overstayed their visa, then while out of
status files for a divorce in California, they can get the divorce in
California that would be recognised by INS? How can someone out of status
prove to a court that they are resident in that state? Normally would this
not require a state issued ID which in turn would need a SSN ? How else
could someone get a state id in Calirornia?
A little confused about how this would be possible.
Patrick
"Folinskyinla" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Originally posted by Patrick
> > A quick question here, how can she get a divorce in California if
> > she is not
> > legally here, ie. in a month she will be out of status and so not
> > legally in
> > US and so would not be able to get a divorce in California?
> > Just a question
> > Patrick
> > "lairdside" wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]"]news:799834.105400289-
> > [email protected][/url]...
> > > Don't know a thing about divorce in CA. Here in Washoe County
> > residence
> > > is six weeks for an adult - six months for a child in custody
> > cases.
> > > Just love the international service of process stuff..
> > counting
> > > the days etc.
> > > My intial request for service was denied without predjudice by
> > the court
> > > as they claimed that due process hadn't been served (they were
> > wrong).
> > > The court clerk finally checked and backed down after I
> > recounted
> > > Klepper v Klepper on the phone.. my divorce attorney just
> > laughed.
> > > I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. He figured he was
> > being
> > > entertained as he had the NRS ready to cite and didn't need
> > to.
> > > --
> > > Posted via http://britishexpats.com/"]http://britishexpat-
> > s.com[/url]
> Hi:
> A very fair question -- divorce/dissolution of marriage is a matter of
> STATE and not Federal law. As long as one of the spouses is physically
> present in the jurisdiction of the tribunal, then that state's tribunals
> may choose to exercise jurisdiction.
> California requires six months residence, Nevada requires 6 weeks.
> BTW, if BOTH spouse "appear" in the court in the US, then even a false
> finding of residence is immune from attack. BTW, I put "appearance" in
> quotes because it is NOT a physical presence. Once you have filed a
> formal pleading with the court, you have "appeared" befoe the court.
> So if a California resident goes to Nevada for a week and gets a
> "default" divorce, it will NOT be recognized. But if California goes
> to Nevada for a week and other spouse files an apperance of not
> contesting the divorce, then it WILL be valid even though neither was
> resident in Nevada.
> Issues can get trickier when there is a second marriage, because the
> rule is slightly different -- the validity of the marriage is dependent
> upon the law of the place of celebration, including their rule on
> conflicts! The question is not whether the prior divorce is valid or
> not, but whether the law of the place of the second marriage will
> recognize that divorce as valid.
> So lets say a resident of the PI goes to Hawaii as a non-immigrant and
> obtains a Hawaii divorce, the question is whether or not the **PI** will
> recognize the HW divorce. I have heard of several cases where the
> second marriage in the PI was not considered valid because the PI would
> not recognize the HW divorce.
> This can be a very complicated issue.
> --
> Certified Specialist
> Immigration & Nat. Law
> Cal. Bar Board of Legal Specialization
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
status files for a divorce in California, they can get the divorce in
California that would be recognised by INS? How can someone out of status
prove to a court that they are resident in that state? Normally would this
not require a state issued ID which in turn would need a SSN ? How else
could someone get a state id in Calirornia?
A little confused about how this would be possible.
Patrick
"Folinskyinla" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Originally posted by Patrick
> > A quick question here, how can she get a divorce in California if
> > she is not
> > legally here, ie. in a month she will be out of status and so not
> > legally in
> > US and so would not be able to get a divorce in California?
> > Just a question
> > Patrick
> > "lairdside" wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]"]news:799834.105400289-
> > [email protected][/url]...
> > > Don't know a thing about divorce in CA. Here in Washoe County
> > residence
> > > is six weeks for an adult - six months for a child in custody
> > cases.
> > > Just love the international service of process stuff..
> > counting
> > > the days etc.
> > > My intial request for service was denied without predjudice by
> > the court
> > > as they claimed that due process hadn't been served (they were
> > wrong).
> > > The court clerk finally checked and backed down after I
> > recounted
> > > Klepper v Klepper on the phone.. my divorce attorney just
> > laughed.
> > > I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. He figured he was
> > being
> > > entertained as he had the NRS ready to cite and didn't need
> > to.
> > > --
> > > Posted via http://britishexpats.com/"]http://britishexpat-
> > s.com[/url]
> Hi:
> A very fair question -- divorce/dissolution of marriage is a matter of
> STATE and not Federal law. As long as one of the spouses is physically
> present in the jurisdiction of the tribunal, then that state's tribunals
> may choose to exercise jurisdiction.
> California requires six months residence, Nevada requires 6 weeks.
> BTW, if BOTH spouse "appear" in the court in the US, then even a false
> finding of residence is immune from attack. BTW, I put "appearance" in
> quotes because it is NOT a physical presence. Once you have filed a
> formal pleading with the court, you have "appeared" befoe the court.
> So if a California resident goes to Nevada for a week and gets a
> "default" divorce, it will NOT be recognized. But if California goes
> to Nevada for a week and other spouse files an apperance of not
> contesting the divorce, then it WILL be valid even though neither was
> resident in Nevada.
> Issues can get trickier when there is a second marriage, because the
> rule is slightly different -- the validity of the marriage is dependent
> upon the law of the place of celebration, including their rule on
> conflicts! The question is not whether the prior divorce is valid or
> not, but whether the law of the place of the second marriage will
> recognize that divorce as valid.
> So lets say a resident of the PI goes to Hawaii as a non-immigrant and
> obtains a Hawaii divorce, the question is whether or not the **PI** will
> recognize the HW divorce. I have heard of several cases where the
> second marriage in the PI was not considered valid because the PI would
> not recognize the HW divorce.
> This can be a very complicated issue.
> --
> Certified Specialist
> Immigration & Nat. Law
> Cal. Bar Board of Legal Specialization
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
May 27th 2003, 4:20 am
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: married to USC but still legally married to other
Only one person has to be a resident of a state in order to file for a
divorce.The other person can apply to the court to respond by telephone. So
the court hearing can be done with only one person physically present in the
court room.
Madelon
"Patrick" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> A quick question here, how can she get a divorce in California if she is
not
> legally here, ie. in a month she will be out of status and so not legally
in
> US and so would not be able to get a divorce in California?
> Just a question
> Patrick
> "lairdside" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Don't know a thing about divorce in CA. Here in Washoe County residence
> > is six weeks for an adult - six months for a child in custody cases.
> >
> > Just love the international service of process stuff.. counting
> > the days etc.
> >
> > My intial request for service was denied without predjudice by the court
> > as they claimed that due process hadn't been served (they were wrong).
> > The court clerk finally checked and backed down after I recounted
> > Klepper v Klepper on the phone.. my divorce attorney just laughed.
> >
> > I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. He figured he was being
> > entertained as he had the NRS ready to cite and didn't need to.
> >
> > --
> > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
divorce.The other person can apply to the court to respond by telephone. So
the court hearing can be done with only one person physically present in the
court room.
Madelon
"Patrick" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> A quick question here, how can she get a divorce in California if she is
not
> legally here, ie. in a month she will be out of status and so not legally
in
> US and so would not be able to get a divorce in California?
> Just a question
> Patrick
> "lairdside" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Don't know a thing about divorce in CA. Here in Washoe County residence
> > is six weeks for an adult - six months for a child in custody cases.
> >
> > Just love the international service of process stuff.. counting
> > the days etc.
> >
> > My intial request for service was denied without predjudice by the court
> > as they claimed that due process hadn't been served (they were wrong).
> > The court clerk finally checked and backed down after I recounted
> > Klepper v Klepper on the phone.. my divorce attorney just laughed.
> >
> > I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. He figured he was being
> > entertained as he had the NRS ready to cite and didn't need to.
> >
> > --
> > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
May 27th 2003, 4:28 am
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: married to USC but still legally married to other
Yes BUT if the person is out of status AND their spouse which they are
divorcing is living in a different country how is that possible? Same as the
question about identifying themselves to the court, if they are out of
status with no California id (which as far as I am aware would require the
person to be in status and maybe even have a SSN) how would the judge know
that they are who they say they are and give a ruling in the case? Just a
standard divorce with no division of assets or child custody rulings, just
minimum divorce for INS purposes.
Is this possible? Would she be able to do that? Or would anyone who resides
in California or Nevada (just two states that come to mind) be able to get
divorced even thought they are out of status and thus illegally in the
country??
Patrick
"Madelon Mottet" wrote in message
news:1054052429.183048@prawn...
> Only one person has to be a resident of a state in order to file for a
> divorce.The other person can apply to the court to respond by telephone.
So
> the court hearing can be done with only one person physically present in
the
> court room.
> Madelon
> "Patrick" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > A quick question here, how can she get a divorce in California if she is
> not
> > legally here, ie. in a month she will be out of status and so not
legally
> in
> > US and so would not be able to get a divorce in California?
> > Just a question
> > Patrick
> > "lairdside" wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > Don't know a thing about divorce in CA. Here in Washoe County
residence
> > > is six weeks for an adult - six months for a child in custody cases.
> > >
> > > Just love the international service of process stuff.. counting
> > > the days etc.
> > >
> > > My intial request for service was denied without predjudice by the
court
> > > as they claimed that due process hadn't been served (they were wrong).
> > > The court clerk finally checked and backed down after I recounted
> > > Klepper v Klepper on the phone.. my divorce attorney just laughed.
> > >
> > > I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. He figured he was being
> > > entertained as he had the NRS ready to cite and didn't need to.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
> >
> >
divorcing is living in a different country how is that possible? Same as the
question about identifying themselves to the court, if they are out of
status with no California id (which as far as I am aware would require the
person to be in status and maybe even have a SSN) how would the judge know
that they are who they say they are and give a ruling in the case? Just a
standard divorce with no division of assets or child custody rulings, just
minimum divorce for INS purposes.
Is this possible? Would she be able to do that? Or would anyone who resides
in California or Nevada (just two states that come to mind) be able to get
divorced even thought they are out of status and thus illegally in the
country??
Patrick
"Madelon Mottet" wrote in message
news:1054052429.183048@prawn...
> Only one person has to be a resident of a state in order to file for a
> divorce.The other person can apply to the court to respond by telephone.
So
> the court hearing can be done with only one person physically present in
the
> court room.
> Madelon
> "Patrick" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > A quick question here, how can she get a divorce in California if she is
> not
> > legally here, ie. in a month she will be out of status and so not
legally
> in
> > US and so would not be able to get a divorce in California?
> > Just a question
> > Patrick
> > "lairdside" wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > Don't know a thing about divorce in CA. Here in Washoe County
residence
> > > is six weeks for an adult - six months for a child in custody cases.
> > >
> > > Just love the international service of process stuff.. counting
> > > the days etc.
> > >
> > > My intial request for service was denied without predjudice by the
court
> > > as they claimed that due process hadn't been served (they were wrong).
> > > The court clerk finally checked and backed down after I recounted
> > > Klepper v Klepper on the phone.. my divorce attorney just laughed.
> > >
> > > I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. He figured he was being
> > > entertained as he had the NRS ready to cite and didn't need to.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
> >
> >
May 27th 2003, 5:49 am
#41
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Re: married to USC but still legally married to other
Originally posted by Patrick
So again to clarify, if someone has overstayed their visa, then while out of
status files for a divorce in California, they can get the divorce in
California that would be recognised by INS? How can someone out of status
prove to a court that they are resident in that state? Normally would this
not require a state issued ID which in turn would need a SSN ? How else
could someone get a state id in Calirornia?
A little confused about how this would be possible.
Patrick
So again to clarify, if someone has overstayed their visa, then while out of
status files for a divorce in California, they can get the divorce in
California that would be recognised by INS? How can someone out of status
prove to a court that they are resident in that state? Normally would this
not require a state issued ID which in turn would need a SSN ? How else
could someone get a state id in Calirornia?
A little confused about how this would be possible.
Patrick
All I said was "resident" -- that is all the law requires for jurisdiction of the courts -- nothing says it has to be "lawful" residence.
An interesting question would arise if a state tried to restrict divorce to those "lawfully" resident in the state. Would be some pretty neat constitutional issues. Been at this for 27 years and haven't gone to the Supremes yet. My good buddy Howard Hom has been at as long as I have been and he got dragged kicking and screaming to the Supremes once -- and he came within 5 justices' votes of winning. Sigh.
May 27th 2003, 5:52 am
#42
Howling at the Moon
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: Incline Village, NV
Posts: 3,742
Re: married to USC but still legally married to other
Originally posted by Patrick
A quick question here, how can she get a divorce in California if she is not
legally here, ie. in a month she will be out of status and so not legally in
US and so would not be able to get a divorce in California?
Just a question
Patrick
"lairdside" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Don't know a thing about divorce in CA. Here in Washoe County residence
> is six weeks for an adult - six months for a child in custody cases.
> Just love the international service of process stuff.. counting
> the days etc.
> My intial request for service was denied without predjudice by the court
> as they claimed that due process hadn't been served (they were wrong).
> The court clerk finally checked and backed down after I recounted
> Klepper v Klepper on the phone.. my divorce attorney just laughed.
> I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. He figured he was being
> entertained as he had the NRS ready to cite and didn't need to.
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
A quick question here, how can she get a divorce in California if she is not
legally here, ie. in a month she will be out of status and so not legally in
US and so would not be able to get a divorce in California?
Just a question
Patrick
"lairdside" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Don't know a thing about divorce in CA. Here in Washoe County residence
> is six weeks for an adult - six months for a child in custody cases.
> Just love the international service of process stuff.. counting
> the days etc.
> My intial request for service was denied without predjudice by the court
> as they claimed that due process hadn't been served (they were wrong).
> The court clerk finally checked and backed down after I recounted
> Klepper v Klepper on the phone.. my divorce attorney just laughed.
> I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. He figured he was being
> entertained as he had the NRS ready to cite and didn't need to.
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
You don't need to be legal to get a divorce. I was out of status when I got mine. You can "get around" the SSn requirement if you don't have one. Illegals, including those who EWI'd get divorced all the time. State courts do not consider immigration to be their issue, not here in Washoe County anyway.
May 27th 2003, 5:55 am
#43
Howling at the Moon
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: Incline Village, NV
Posts: 3,742
Re: married to USC but still legally married to other
Originally posted by Patrick
So again to clarify, if someone has overstayed their visa, then while out of
status files for a divorce in California, they can get the divorce in
California that would be recognised by INS? How can someone out of status
prove to a court that they are resident in that state? Normally would this
not require a state issued ID which in turn would need a SSN ? How else
could someone get a state id in Calirornia?
A little confused about how this would be possible.
Patrick
"Folinskyinla" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Originally posted by Patrick
> > A quick question here, how can she get a divorce in California if
> > she is not
> > legally here, ie. in a month she will be out of status and so not
> > legally in
> > US and so would not be able to get a divorce in California?
> > Just a question
> > Patrick
> > "lairdside" wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]"]news:799834.105400289-
> > [email protected][/url]...
> > > Don't know a thing about divorce in CA. Here in Washoe County
> > residence
> > > is six weeks for an adult - six months for a child in custody
> > cases.
> > > Just love the international service of process stuff..
> > counting
> > > the days etc.
> > > My intial request for service was denied without predjudice by
> > the court
> > > as they claimed that due process hadn't been served (they were
> > wrong).
> > > The court clerk finally checked and backed down after I
> > recounted
> > > Klepper v Klepper on the phone.. my divorce attorney just
> > laughed.
> > > I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. He figured he was
> > being
> > > entertained as he had the NRS ready to cite and didn't need
> > to.
> > > --
> > > Posted via http://britishexpats.com/"]http://britishexpat-
> > s.com[/url]
> Hi:
> A very fair question -- divorce/dissolution of marriage is a matter of
> STATE and not Federal law. As long as one of the spouses is physically
> present in the jurisdiction of the tribunal, then that state's tribunals
> may choose to exercise jurisdiction.
> California requires six months residence, Nevada requires 6 weeks.
> BTW, if BOTH spouse "appear" in the court in the US, then even a false
> finding of residence is immune from attack. BTW, I put "appearance" in
> quotes because it is NOT a physical presence. Once you have filed a
> formal pleading with the court, you have "appeared" befoe the court.
> So if a California resident goes to Nevada for a week and gets a
> "default" divorce, it will NOT be recognized. But if California goes
> to Nevada for a week and other spouse files an apperance of not
> contesting the divorce, then it WILL be valid even though neither was
> resident in Nevada.
> Issues can get trickier when there is a second marriage, because the
> rule is slightly different -- the validity of the marriage is dependent
> upon the law of the place of celebration, including their rule on
> conflicts! The question is not whether the prior divorce is valid or
> not, but whether the law of the place of the second marriage will
> recognize that divorce as valid.
> So lets say a resident of the PI goes to Hawaii as a non-immigrant and
> obtains a Hawaii divorce, the question is whether or not the **PI** will
> recognize the HW divorce. I have heard of several cases where the
> second marriage in the PI was not considered valid because the PI would
> not recognize the HW divorce.
> This can be a very complicated issue.
> --
> Certified Specialist
> Immigration & Nat. Law
> Cal. Bar Board of Legal Specialization
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
So again to clarify, if someone has overstayed their visa, then while out of
status files for a divorce in California, they can get the divorce in
California that would be recognised by INS? How can someone out of status
prove to a court that they are resident in that state? Normally would this
not require a state issued ID which in turn would need a SSN ? How else
could someone get a state id in Calirornia?
A little confused about how this would be possible.
Patrick
"Folinskyinla" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Originally posted by Patrick
> > A quick question here, how can she get a divorce in California if
> > she is not
> > legally here, ie. in a month she will be out of status and so not
> > legally in
> > US and so would not be able to get a divorce in California?
> > Just a question
> > Patrick
> > "lairdside" wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]"]news:799834.105400289-
> > [email protected][/url]...
> > > Don't know a thing about divorce in CA. Here in Washoe County
> > residence
> > > is six weeks for an adult - six months for a child in custody
> > cases.
> > > Just love the international service of process stuff..
> > counting
> > > the days etc.
> > > My intial request for service was denied without predjudice by
> > the court
> > > as they claimed that due process hadn't been served (they were
> > wrong).
> > > The court clerk finally checked and backed down after I
> > recounted
> > > Klepper v Klepper on the phone.. my divorce attorney just
> > laughed.
> > > I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. He figured he was
> > being
> > > entertained as he had the NRS ready to cite and didn't need
> > to.
> > > --
> > > Posted via http://britishexpats.com/"]http://britishexpat-
> > s.com[/url]
> Hi:
> A very fair question -- divorce/dissolution of marriage is a matter of
> STATE and not Federal law. As long as one of the spouses is physically
> present in the jurisdiction of the tribunal, then that state's tribunals
> may choose to exercise jurisdiction.
> California requires six months residence, Nevada requires 6 weeks.
> BTW, if BOTH spouse "appear" in the court in the US, then even a false
> finding of residence is immune from attack. BTW, I put "appearance" in
> quotes because it is NOT a physical presence. Once you have filed a
> formal pleading with the court, you have "appeared" befoe the court.
> So if a California resident goes to Nevada for a week and gets a
> "default" divorce, it will NOT be recognized. But if California goes
> to Nevada for a week and other spouse files an apperance of not
> contesting the divorce, then it WILL be valid even though neither was
> resident in Nevada.
> Issues can get trickier when there is a second marriage, because the
> rule is slightly different -- the validity of the marriage is dependent
> upon the law of the place of celebration, including their rule on
> conflicts! The question is not whether the prior divorce is valid or
> not, but whether the law of the place of the second marriage will
> recognize that divorce as valid.
> So lets say a resident of the PI goes to Hawaii as a non-immigrant and
> obtains a Hawaii divorce, the question is whether or not the **PI** will
> recognize the HW divorce. I have heard of several cases where the
> second marriage in the PI was not considered valid because the PI would
> not recognize the HW divorce.
> This can be a very complicated issue.
> --
> Certified Specialist
> Immigration & Nat. Law
> Cal. Bar Board of Legal Specialization
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
May 27th 2003, 5:56 am
#44
Howling at the Moon
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: Incline Village, NV
Posts: 3,742
Re: married to USC but still legally married to other
Originally posted by Madelon Mottet
Only one person has to be a resident of a state in order to file for a
divorce.The other person can apply to the court to respond by telephone. So
the court hearing can be done with only one person physically present in the
court room.
Madelon
"Patrick" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> A quick question here, how can she get a divorce in California if she is
not
> legally here, ie. in a month she will be out of status and so not legally
in
> US and so would not be able to get a divorce in California?
> Just a question
> Patrick
> "lairdside" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Don't know a thing about divorce in CA. Here in Washoe County residence
> > is six weeks for an adult - six months for a child in custody cases.
> >
> > Just love the international service of process stuff.. counting
> > the days etc.
> >
> > My intial request for service was denied without predjudice by the court
> > as they claimed that due process hadn't been served (they were wrong).
> > The court clerk finally checked and backed down after I recounted
> > Klepper v Klepper on the phone.. my divorce attorney just laughed.
> >
> > I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. He figured he was being
> > entertained as he had the NRS ready to cite and didn't need to.
> >
> > --
> > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
Only one person has to be a resident of a state in order to file for a
divorce.The other person can apply to the court to respond by telephone. So
the court hearing can be done with only one person physically present in the
court room.
Madelon
"Patrick" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> A quick question here, how can she get a divorce in California if she is
not
> legally here, ie. in a month she will be out of status and so not legally
in
> US and so would not be able to get a divorce in California?
> Just a question
> Patrick
> "lairdside" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Don't know a thing about divorce in CA. Here in Washoe County residence
> > is six weeks for an adult - six months for a child in custody cases.
> >
> > Just love the international service of process stuff.. counting
> > the days etc.
> >
> > My intial request for service was denied without predjudice by the court
> > as they claimed that due process hadn't been served (they were wrong).
> > The court clerk finally checked and backed down after I recounted
> > Klepper v Klepper on the phone.. my divorce attorney just laughed.
> >
> > I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. He figured he was being
> > entertained as he had the NRS ready to cite and didn't need to.
> >
> > --
> > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
May 27th 2003, 6:10 am
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: married to USC but still legally married to other
Wow, I have been living in California for last 18 months, I am awaiting a
divorce in Ireland, are you guys saying that I could have gotten my divorce
here and then remarried here and then adjust status?? Have another 18 months
at least before Irish divorce is finished, can't even file in Ireland for 4
years, will be 4 years next March, legal seperation is in place. Irish
divorce costs about $3000, how much for a divorce here??
Would cut the time down a lot if I could do it here and have it recognised
by INS.
Thanks for the info
Patrick
"lairdside" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Originally posted by Patrick
> > A quick question here, how can she get a divorce in California if
> > she is not
> > legally here, ie. in a month she will be out of status and so not
> > legally in
> > US and so would not be able to get a divorce in California?
> > Just a question
> > Patrick
> > "lairdside" wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]"]news:799834.105400289-
> > [email protected][/url]...
> > > Don't know a thing about divorce in CA. Here in Washoe County
> > residence
> > > is six weeks for an adult - six months for a child in custody
> > cases.
> > > Just love the international service of process stuff..
> > counting
> > > the days etc.
> > > My intial request for service was denied without predjudice by
> > the court
> > > as they claimed that due process hadn't been served (they were
> > wrong).
> > > The court clerk finally checked and backed down after I
> > recounted
> > > Klepper v Klepper on the phone.. my divorce attorney just
> > laughed.
> > > I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. He figured he was
> > being
> > > entertained as he had the NRS ready to cite and didn't need
> > to.
> > > --
> > > Posted via http://britishexpats.com/"]http://britishexpat-
> > s.com[/url]
> Patrick :
> You don't need to be legal to get a divorce. I was out of
> status when I got mine. You can "get around" the SSn
> requirement if you don't have one. Illegals, including those
> who EWI'd get divorced all the time. State courts do not
> consider immigration to be their issue, not here in Washoe
> County anyway.
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
divorce in Ireland, are you guys saying that I could have gotten my divorce
here and then remarried here and then adjust status?? Have another 18 months
at least before Irish divorce is finished, can't even file in Ireland for 4
years, will be 4 years next March, legal seperation is in place. Irish
divorce costs about $3000, how much for a divorce here??
Would cut the time down a lot if I could do it here and have it recognised
by INS.
Thanks for the info
Patrick
"lairdside" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Originally posted by Patrick
> > A quick question here, how can she get a divorce in California if
> > she is not
> > legally here, ie. in a month she will be out of status and so not
> > legally in
> > US and so would not be able to get a divorce in California?
> > Just a question
> > Patrick
> > "lairdside" wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]"]news:799834.105400289-
> > [email protected][/url]...
> > > Don't know a thing about divorce in CA. Here in Washoe County
> > residence
> > > is six weeks for an adult - six months for a child in custody
> > cases.
> > > Just love the international service of process stuff..
> > counting
> > > the days etc.
> > > My intial request for service was denied without predjudice by
> > the court
> > > as they claimed that due process hadn't been served (they were
> > wrong).
> > > The court clerk finally checked and backed down after I
> > recounted
> > > Klepper v Klepper on the phone.. my divorce attorney just
> > laughed.
> > > I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. He figured he was
> > being
> > > entertained as he had the NRS ready to cite and didn't need
> > to.
> > > --
> > > Posted via http://britishexpats.com/"]http://britishexpat-
> > s.com[/url]
> Patrick :
> You don't need to be legal to get a divorce. I was out of
> status when I got mine. You can "get around" the SSn
> requirement if you don't have one. Illegals, including those
> who EWI'd get divorced all the time. State courts do not
> consider immigration to be their issue, not here in Washoe
> County anyway.
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
