Just Jenney

Everyone who's responded to this guy's posts has told him exactly what you have: Get legal advice. Go see a lawyer right away. This is a complicated issue that extends beyond the experience of this NG.

If they can find a way to be together, great. What people find so objectionable is the blatant way his gf ignored the law -- like obtaining and using a fake SSN so she could work here. A fake SSN doesn't just fall into one's lap. But she somehow had the know-how to acquire one and the balls to use it.

And she didn't simply "overstay". It's not like she accidentally arranged her return flight to Brazil for two days after her visa expired. No, she PLANNED on staying beyond her visa's expiration for several years. She's now been here 3 years, working all that time, and now wants to stay for good, only she finds herself in a pickle because she ignored the rules from the get-go.

Meanwhile, there are lots of people like my husband who ARE playing by the rules, even at great inconvenience. Yet you don't see us breaking the law (getting fake SSNs, fake EADs, etc.) just to avoid that inconvenience.

I'm not sure why you're calling people who are angry with his gf's actions hypocrites. By definition, to be a hypocrite is to present yourself as someone you're not. If anyone is a hypocrite, it's the gf, because she's the one posing as a legal immigrant when in fact she isn't.

~ Jenney

Andrew Defaria

Paul Gani wrote:

    > "Andrew DeFaria" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> Paul Gani wrote:
    >>> You are correct - it is not an immoral crime. What is immoral are
    >>> the laws written to prevent the natural migration of human beings.
    >> Yes let's let everybody here into America - no questions asked! It is
    > Your thinking is too limited. The real issue is not about letting
    > other people in. It is about letting our people out.

Paul, you are free to go! :-)

    > It's about letting our capital and knowledge and ideas have a free
    > reign on the world.

OK, fine then. Instead of having them come here and consume all of our
riches let's just send our riches aboard!

    > I'm not proposing the elimination of America's migration laws. I'm
    > proposing the abolition of the the world's migration laws.

Excuse me? Are we not part of the world anymore? If you propose
abolition of the world's migration laws then you are advocating the
abolition of our migration laws as well. While a "free to roam where
ever you want" sounds enticing, in practice it would reek utter havoc
across the globe.

    > Oh, and I never said anything about private property.

Property rights are the basis for all rights.

--
I was born by Caesarean section, but you really can't tell...except that
when I leave my house, I always go out the window...

Bkholdem

Andrew DeFaria <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected] rvers.com>...
    > bkholdem wrote:
    >
    > > You are correct that I do not view it as a bad moral crime.
    >
    > You should, because it is.

I don't because it is not. That is your opinion. Your opinion is not
fact.

    >
    > > I did not put that much thought into it at first because I did not
    > > know. We started out dating. Both of us were not looking for a serious
    > > relationship. I don't blame her for not telling me about this in the
    > > beginning as it was really not relevant to our situation. As we grew
    > > closer and developed stronger feelings for each other she did tell me.
    > > I considered her timing appropriate.
    >
    > At some point prior to you getting engaged such things should come up.


We are not engaged and they have come up.


    > It is at this point that you need to make a decision whether to go
    > onward and accept the consequences or not.


That is the process I am in now, duh.

    >
    > > Obviously she felt, and still feels, very bad about this.
    >
    > She obviously did not feel bad enough about this to take care of it when
    > she should have.

Of course she didn't. I don't care about that.


    >
    > > She did not factor the possibility of meeting someone and falling in
    > > love into the equation prior to overstaying her visa.
    >
    > You say this as if it should be a factor. It is irrelevant whether or
    > not she would fall in love at some point down the road. What she did was
    > wrong!

With respect to me, and my life...which I am in charge of...it is not.
I decide what is relevant and irrelevant in whom I choose as a mate.
Maybe you have a perfect mate who has never done anything wrong...wait
a second your human too right? Have you ever broken a law before?




It was wrong the 1st day of her overstay, it is still wrong
    > today. She choose to ignore the law.

I don't care about that. You are not going to persuade me to care
about that. Can you accept that?


    >
    > > In retrospect it was certainly a big mistake. I do not hold this
    > > against her however. I love her and not have been in love with a woman
    > > (other than her) for over 15 years. She has healed my broken heart and
    > > for that I am eternally greatful. She has helped me learn how to love
    > > again. She has opened up a whole new world for me.
    >
    > My prediction is that she will also break your heart even worse. Hey if
    > you're willing to suffer through that then go ahead.

I'm not interested in arguing with you.


    >
    > >> Now you are paying for that lack of foresight.
    > >
    > > Well not at the moment but I certainly may pay dearly if we can not
    > > find a solution.
    >
    > I'm not sure there is a solution, save, like I said before, packing your
    > bags and moving to Brasil.
    >
    > > Such is life.
    >
    > Yes it is. Question is: Is this the path you wish to take with your life?
    >
    > > If it comes to it I will move to Brazil and die poor and broke to
    > > continue my life with her.
    >
    > Why do you think you must die poor and broke in Brasil? IOW why couldn't
    > you flourish there?
    >
    > > I have been given the greatest gift humanly possible and consider
    > > myself to be blessed. Of course I am hoping to find a more comfortable
    > > solution. People have advised me to talk to an immigration attorney
    > > and I intend to do so.
    > >
    > >
    > > Sorry this is happening to you.
    > >
    > >
    > > Thank you. I am happy that some of the posters have been able to
    > > empathize with me. I came here seeking help and found some of the
    > > replies to be presumptious and consdesending. Such is life. Others
    > > have been kind enough to offer advice.
    >
    > No I'm more sorry for you in the pitying sense as it appears that you
    > are foolishly in love (the emphasis is on the word foolishly). You are
    > not thinking right. I fear in the end you will be more hurt than helped.
    > But hey it's your life.

I don't need your pitty. In fact I pitty your self rightiousness and
lack of empathy. You seem like kind of a tight ass to me. Do you
scold your wife if she doesn't tuck in the sheets properly?


    >
    > I've offered my advice as have other people, which is to think very
    > carefully before getting involved in somebody who so cavilerly ignores
    > important laws that have dire penalties that can also cause tremendous
    > hurt on other innocent people.
    >
    > >> The fact that your honey is hiding such things should be a large red
    > >> flag but I
    > >> suspect you are blinded by love.
    > >
    > > To some extent I am 'blinded by love'.
    >
    > To a larger extent than you are willing to admit I suspect.

It seems to me that you are blinded by your rigid world view.


    >
    > > Most people truely in love are, I suspect, to some degree.
    >
    > Housepucky! You can be in love and still have your wits about you.

You need to loosen up dude. Take a deep breath and relax.


    >
    > > The fact of the matter is that she did not 'hide anything from me'.
    >
    > She is hiding things from you right now! Why do I say that? Because she
    > does not wish to discuss the issue as you have already admitted to. That
    > sir is hiding things from you.

She is not hiding anything from me. If you have particular
information I would be very surprised as you do not even know her.
That is very presumptious of you to say such a thing.


    >
    > > We were dating. We became more serious. I fell in love with her and
    > > she fell in love with me too. I cried my heart out and thanked God out
    > > loud when I told her that I
    > > loved her. Prior to her telling me she loved me she also broke down in
    > > tears and shared with me the situation (overstaying her visa, not
    > > responding to a court date). She was extremely upset because of the
    > > situation and did not factor the possibility of falling in love with
    > > someone here.
    >
    > Again, there is no factoring of love possibilities involved.

Maybe for you there isn't. For that I pitty you.



She
    > knowingly broke the law and has been evading it for quite some time now.
    > This is the same whether she met you or not. Or are you attempting to
    > say that somehow it is now important whereas before she met you it was
    > nothing?

Yes I am. I think there should be open boarders.


No doubt is it important to you and important to the life you
    > and her wish to put together. She should have thought of this
    > beforehand, whether or not she "fell in love".

Blaming people is not productive. Maybe you would like for me to
introduce you to her so you could give her a lecture. From what I
gather in reading the way you post you would take great pleasure in
such things.


    >
    > And it would also enter into my mind whether or not she truly loves you
    > or is just looking for a relationship hoping that it would help her to
    > be able to stay here.

She did not want to even stay here and is in fact still conflicted by
the idea.

    >
    > > I did not understand the ramifications of that political situation at
    > > the time, and to be honest I still don't.
    >
    > Obviously. It's not political - it's the law. It was the law before - it
    > still is.

You seem to put a great importance on these types of laws while I do
not. Are you the type of person who calls the state police when a car
passes you on the freeway going 3 miles/hr over the speed limit?


    >
    > > That is why I came here. I was hoping on a marriage/visa board that I
    > > may find someone in a similar situation, someone who has been, or
    > > someone with info that could help me.
    >
    > Many people have already told you - get an immigration attorney. Let us
    > know what they think.

I will when I get to this step.


    >
    > > Wake up man!
    > >
    > > I don't understand why this seems like such a 'red flag' to people.
    >
    > Lies and deception, to you or to other people (employers, governments)
    > etc are general considered a sign of bad character. Don't you agree?

I don't consider lies to government to be a sign of bad character. We
the people are the government. Government agencies do more harm than
good.


    >
    > > If I was in another country, never anticipated to return,
    >
    > Wait right here! Who gives you the authority to invade somebody else's
    > country (home) and declare that you wish to stay without anticipating
    > returning to your country?!? You are a guest here and as such must abide
    > by our rules.

Ahh, more 'rules'. Loosen up on that rigidity dude.


    >
    > > overstayed my visa
    >
    > Otherwise known as, became a criminal by overstaying your welcome and
    > violating laws for which you could be thrown out of the country and
    > banned from returning...

Hell, if I meet people in the government that view the world as
rigidly as you do while in this process I'm going to seek political
assylum in Brazil.


    >
    > > and then met someone and fell in love with them...
    >
    > Irrelevant!

You don't get to decide what is relevant or irrelevant in my life
although I can tell that you want very badly to have that power.

    >
    > > I would be surprised if they thought that was some major red flag of a
    > > character flaw or something.
    >
    > Well I, for one, would. So do many of my fellow citizens.

Agreed.


And, most
    > importantly, the authorities have deemed that such violators should be
    > punished.

Yes, I can see this is very important to you.


    >
    > > While it may pose major problems due to residency, politics, or
    > > whatever...
    >
    > There have been others here who have pointed out to you the negative
    > effects of people who commit such blatant violations of the law. Who are
    > you to say that you will be granted a visa to VISIT for a certain time
    > period and that you get to decide to extend your welcome at your own
    > choosing, thereby making it worse for others who want to come here
    > legally?!?

Didn't you ever go to Cuba and hand out american money just because
the government says that you can't? It's even more fun when you
actually let them stamp your passport and then get questioned upon
return. I control me, 'the government' doesn't.


    >
    > > I don't think it speaks to my character or value as a human being.
    >
    > It speaks volumes! Say you get invited to somebody's house to live for a
    > short time period. Then you decide you want to stay there for years!
    > Most people call such people louses and rightfully so.

This is the only strong point that you make imo. I can't argue with
this.


    >
    > > I don't think that I would do that, but then again I don't live in a
    > > second or third world country.
    >
    > How is living in a second or third world country somehow transpose
    > people who live there to have some God given right to invade my home and
    > take up residence, resources and cause others who wish to come here
    > legally and still others who are burdened with excessively long waits
    > and delays to be further burdened with even longer waits and delays?!?
    > We (the US) did not make those other countries second or third world
    > countries! And we are indeed willing to help those people out but at our
    > own time schedule, with our own rules and processes so that it is done
    > as fairly as possible. Cutting in line as your girlfriend has done ruins
    > it for everybody else and she should be punished for her violations of
    > the law! Sorry you fell in love with her. Perhaps you should pay
    > attention to her character as demonstrated by her actions and her
    > blatant "I don't have to follow the rules because I'm not in love yet"
    > attitude.
    >
    > > On the grand scale of wrongs that a human can do I don't see this one
    > > as very high up on the scale, in fact I see it as very low on the scale.
    >
    > Of course you don't because you want her to get away with it so that you
    > are not inconvenienced.

Yes this is true.


    >
    > > I guess one of MY mistakes, in retrospect, was anticipating that this
    > > board would be less 'political' and more 'love' based.
    >
    > It's more reality based and law based than political.

That is your view, I say it is political.


    >
    > > I think I'm going to search for a love/visa message board.
    >
    > Otherwise known as "I'm a love sick individual and I don't like to face
    > reality, I don't like the answers I'm getting here so I'll go elsewhere
    > to see how I can get my girlfriend off and skirt around her blatant
    > violation of the law...".
    >
    > >> As another had posted this is a train wreck waiting to happen. Get
    > >> off the tracks!
    > >
    > > I'm not on the tracks, I'm on the train.
    >
    > Think about it... Does it really matter if you're on the tracks or the
    > train if a wreck is about to happen?
    >
    > > I'm with the woman I love. I am a man, not a coward.
    >
    > Then face the fact that your girlfriend is a criminal and the punishment
    > of the crime may cause you to live outside the US.

Would you like it if i handcuff her and bring her over to your house?
You can make a poster after taking pictures of her in handcuffs and
start your own political advocacy group....

    >
    > > It is my job to save us both.
    >
    > I'm convinced that often the best course of action is to cut your losses.

That depends on many factors. As I have said before you seem to have
a very rigid view of the world while I don't.


    >
    > > I don't know how to operate this 'train'. That is why I am here. As I
    > > indicated above I am willing to jump off this train with my love
    > > before it crashes. Anyone who knows how to operate this train to give
    > > us a fair chance that it will not crash please email me @
    > > [email protected]
    >
    > Good luck.

Thank you.

Bkholdem

Andrew DeFaria <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected] rvers.com>...
    > Paul Gani wrote:
    >
    > >> You are correct that I do not view it as a bad moral crime. I did not
    > >
    > > You are correct - it is not an immoral crime. What is immoral are the
    > > laws written to prevent the natural migration of human beings.
    >
    > Yes let's let everybody here into America - no questions asked! It is
    > then that this country will become as 3rd world as any other 3rd world
    > country and then and only then will the desire of the masses to come
    > here stop. It's at that time, where every immigrants wishes are
    > fulfilled, that their wishes will become dreaded because they will have
    > ruined it for all of us. Who are we to want to keep our homes? We are
    > but the people who have built this great nation and now it is time for
    > us to give it up to the have nots - surely they are more deserving of
    > the riches of this land and our efforts than we are!
    >
    > > These immoral laws are usually written so the people who arrived
    > > somewhere first (or plundered, murdered, or drove off the
    > > original/previous inhabitants) can hoard the local resources to
    > > themselves.
    >
    > Same is true for every other country on this Earth.
    >
    > > Please don't listen to the self-righteous hypocrits in this newsgroup.
    > > If the two of you love each other, then you should pursue whatever
    > > avenues necessary to be together.
    >
    > Yes. Laws be damned! Sovernty be damned! Property rights be damned! I
    > suggest that since Paul is so much in your camp that you camp in his
    > living room! Surely he will not mine you two, loving couple, struggling
    > against the big meanies who wish to have a sovergn nation and apply laws
    > enacted by duly elected officials... And he doesn't mine you all coming
    > here and using our stuff - he's all for it so surely he must be willing
    > to help you guys out.


I can tell you one thing for sure. If I somehow found myself in some
kind of emergency out in public (car broken down, just mugged,
whatever) I would much rather have him come across me than you.

If you didn't have laws to govern how you lived your life would you
fall apart or something? I can tell you love your big brother. I say
big brother is my servent.



    >
    > > And don't forget to hire a lawyer.
    >
    > Nor your hot dogs and marsh mellows. Perhaps you could share them with
    > Mr. Gani...
    >
    > :-)

Maggs

An observation regarding this post. There is obviously contoversy about the post itself, but this poster and his girlfriend are not going to get out of the pickle they are in unless they get an experienced immigration attorney's advice. They will not get past the USCIS otherwise. She is already illegal and will remain that way unless they get proper legal representation. They will undoubtedly find this out in due course and from the look of it there is nothing we can do to change that however much we disagree, or in Pauls case agree on the subject.

Maggie

Andrew Defaria

bkholdem wrote:

    > I can tell you one thing for sure. If I somehow found myself in some
    > kind of emergency out in public (car broken down, just mugged,
    > whatever) I would much rather have him come across me than you.

I assure you I am quite a nice guy and help people all the time - that
is people who truly need help. However I, like most people would balk at
say letting you cut into a drink line at a street festival during a hot
summer day? Why? Because I'm mean or cruel? No, because you should
expect to wait in line just like everybody else is waiting in line
because you do not deserve special treatment. The line analogy is
exactly what is going on with your girlfriend but she choose to cut in
line and avoid the similar and fair treatment that everybody else is
subject to. I, like a lot of other people in line would be angered if I
saw that and I would complain.

    > If you didn't have laws to govern how you lived your life would you
    > fall apart or something?

No but I do have a sense of justice and fairness. Others here have
pointed out that they are struggling with the long waits due in part to
behavior such as your girlfriends. One poster posted that her family is
living on her income which is smaller while they wait, properly in line,
for the proper paperwork to be processed. It is not easy on them. Why do
they do it? Because they know they are not the only ones in line, that
some are struggling even harder and to them it would not be fair nor
just to skirt the procedures and effectively cut the line because they
somehow feel that they are more worthy of the benefit than others.
Instead they show a sense of fairness and wait in turn. You and your
girlfriend however think that you are above the law and deserving of
special attention that allows you to avoid what everybody else has to
endure I guess simply because you are in love (like you're the only
person who has fallen in love with a foreigner!).

    > I can tell you love your big brother. I say big brother is my servent.

Then what's the problem? Go talk to your big brother servant and have
him give you that magic pass.
--
Why does mineral water that has trickled through mountains for centuries
have a "use by" date?

Bkholdem

Andrew DeFaria <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected] ervers.com>...
    > bkholdem wrote:
    >
    > > I can tell you one thing for sure. If I somehow found myself in some
    > > kind of emergency out in public (car broken down, just mugged,
    > > whatever) I would much rather have him come across me than you.
    >
    > I assure you I am quite a nice guy and help people all the time - that
    > is people who truly need help. However I, like most people would balk at
    > say letting you cut into a drink line at a street festival during a hot
    > summer day? Why? Because I'm mean or cruel? No, because you should
    > expect to wait in line just like everybody else is waiting in line
    > because you do not deserve special treatment. The line analogy is
    > exactly what is going on with your girlfriend but she choose to cut in
    > line and avoid the similar and fair treatment that everybody else is
    > subject to. I, like a lot of other people in line would be angered if I
    > saw that and I would complain.


She is not choosing to cut in any line you jackass, she doesn't even
know if she wants to stay in this country and we have made no final
decisions. Given the situation, and the possibility that I may want
her to stay I'm doing some investigating.

    >
    > > If you didn't have laws to govern how you lived your life would you
    > > fall apart or something?
    >
    > No but I do have a sense of justice and fairness. Others here have
    > pointed out that they are struggling with the long waits due in part to
    > behavior such as your girlfriends. One poster posted that her family is
    > living on her income which is smaller while they wait, properly in line,
    > for the proper paperwork to be processed. It is not easy on them. Why do
    > they do it? Because they know they are not the only ones in line, that
    > some are struggling even harder and to them it would not be fair nor
    > just to skirt the procedures and effectively cut the line because they
    > somehow feel that they are more worthy of the benefit than others.
    > Instead they show a sense of fairness and wait in turn. You and your
    > girlfriend however think that you are above the law and deserving of
    > special attention that allows you to avoid what everybody else has to
    > endure I guess simply because you are in love (like you're the only
    > person who has fallen in love with a foreigner!).
    >
    > > I can tell you love your big brother. I say big brother is my servent.
    >
    > Then what's the problem? Go talk to your big brother servant and have
    > him give you that magic pass.

Andrew Defaria

bkholdem wrote:

    >> I assure you I am quite a nice guy and help people all the time -
    >> that is people who truly need help. However I, like most people would
    >> balk at say letting you cut into a drink line at a street festival
    >> during a hot summer day? Why? Because I'm mean or cruel? No, because
    >> you should expect to wait in line just like everybody else is waiting
    >> in line because you do not deserve special treatment. The line
    >> analogy is exactly what is going on with your girlfriend but she
    >> choose to cut in line and avoid the similar and fair treatment that
    >> everybody else is subject to. I, like a lot of other people in line
    >> would be angered if I saw that and I would complain.
    > She is not choosing to cut in any line you jackass, she doesn't even
    > know if she wants to stay in this country and we have made no final
    > decisions.

She has already cut the line! Giving her the benefit of the doubt that
she originally came her on a valid visa, that visa has long since
expired. Instead she has already consciously decided *not *to get into
line and get her visa renewed but rather just to continue to work anyway
thereby skipping the line entirely or effectively cutting in before
others instead of waiting her turn properly. She did not even get into
line to get a proper SS# either, rather she stole one (one can only
assume that you are OK with identity theft too). Your girlfriend has
already violated our laws and nothing you say or do can change that fact.

Surely you can't be this stupid as to not realize this! Then again maybe
you are.

BTW, Thankfully your girlfriend does not have the power nor the right to
make a decision that she wants to stay in this country or not! She must
ask for permission. She was granted permission once but has already
abused that privilege and has been asked to leave. Regardless of what
decision she or you make the final arbiter is the government and I hope
they decline her and forcefully remove her as both she and you have
shown little respect for the law nor acknowledge that it is a privilege
to immigrate here - not a right.

    > Given the situation, and the possibility that I may want her to stay
    > I'm doing some investigating.

Yeah you keep saying this as well as saying that you will be talking to
an immigration attorney. What have you come up with?

--
All I want in life is a warm bed, and unlimited power.

DCMark

Well at this point you are just showing immaturity by continuing this arguing. Your opinion that she did nothing wrong is only agitating people here.

Let me give you a little advice. Both you and your gf need to at least be able to pretend that you are sorry for violating the law and for hurting other people who are doing it the right way. Contrition goes a long way in convincing people that you deserve a break. This includes your lawyers, INS administrators, judges, etc. You may never admit guilt but others can tell if you are sorry and if you genuinely realize you (her) have made mistake.

If you continue to have this "I am better than you" and "I do not follow immoral laws even though everyone else does" attitude, I am confident you will find yourself with a deported gf quite soon. Also, there is such a thing as karma and she is piling up bad karma right now.

You have been dithering about this for a week now. Have you seen an attorney yet? All of this is dust in the wind if you do not.

grow up please.

dlj1216

I agree totally with DCMark. Because of behavior by Brazilians like your girlfriend, my fiancee wasn't allowed into the US.

There are more than 10,000 Brazilians in jails because of immigration issues. The immigration system in Brazil is denying 50% of applicants because of people that overstay their visas or whatnot.

I have dual citizenship. I am much more patriotic to Brazil than to the US but all the brazilians that are in jail belong there because they have broken the laws!

You know that big chunk of money they take out from your check every week? It's to pay for people like her, section 8, etc, etc.