lairdside

Argh - you are a usenet poster ( my apologies).

The reference wasn't aimed at YOUR remarks (although it may have appeared that way because I was lazy and responded to your posting). It was actually in accordance with your sarcasm.


You know - the original proposal of the poster "Sfm"?

I hope? that it may have been more decipherable as such through ex-pats? Or perhaps it's just the way my mind works.....

They may be delusions but they are MY delusions and I'm keeping them........

Andrew Defaria

lairdside wrote:

    > Originally posted by Andrew Defaria
    >> lairdside wrote:
    >>> Hmm..... so.. if those who break the law can pay they can stay eh?
    >>> Sounds like justice for the rich as opposed to the poor to me. I
    >>> thought justice was supposed to be for all. Money is not supposed to
    >>> make you above the law IMHO.
    > Ahem... Well then. You missed this part:
    >> (For those who could not figure it out yet I was being sarcastic
    >> about the last paragraph).
    >> An apparently this part (randomly generated), also applies:
    >> God must love stupid people... He made so many.
    >> :-)
    > Argh - you are a usenet poster ( my apologies).

You say that as if it's bad...

    > The reference wasn't aimed at YOUR remarks (although it may have
    > appeared that way because I was lazy and responded to your posting).
    > It was actually in accordance with your sarcasm.

If you are responding to "sfm" then quote him (her or it) not me.

    > You know - the original proposal of the poster "Sfm"?
    > I hope? that it may have been more decipherable as such through
    > ex-pats? Or perhaps it's just the way my mind works.....

Perhaps ex-pats should fix it's interface instead of spending it's time
inventing new ones...

    > They may be delusions but they are MY delusions and I'm keeping
    > them........

Sure. Keep em. I have my own! ;-)

--
I've had amnesia for as long as I can remember.

lairdside

    > Argh - you are a usenet poster ( my apologies).

You say that as if it's bad...

Nooo. not bad just two seperate references (hence the brackets).

The first was a realization, the second my apology for not having taken it into consideration the first time around.

    > The reference wasn't aimed at YOUR remarks (although it may have
    > appeared that way because I was lazy and responded to your posting).
    > It was actually in accordance with your sarcasm.

If you are responding to "sfm" then quote him (her or it) not me.

On Expats it showed both sets of quotes. My comment was intended as an extension of both sets of comments so both could have been considered relevant. I shall use a construction which relies less upon derivation in future.......

Nice simple face value English. Oh no that's not English though that's American...... darn.
--
I've had amnesia for as long as I can remember. [/QUOTE]

Littlegrl

Please see my comments below.

"Jenney & Mark" <member2595@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Originally posted by Bkholdem
    > > She has been here about
    > three years. I am not clear exactly what type of notice she received
    > first but it was some kind of notice for an appearance in court which
    > she ignored. She initially just intended to stay here for a few years to
    > earn some money and then return home so she ignored this.
    > Though you say you never meant to offend anyone in this NG by
    > discussing your gf's actions, you have stepped on a hornet's nest, I'm
    > afraid. And yes, your gf's actions DO disgust me.

************************************************** ***
Jenney, although I am not directly involved in any INS processing (my
brother and his wife will be filing AOS and I'm helping out), reading the
poster's 'explanations' made me quite angry too. I think you used a very
good word here - "disgusting". People's situations are different. We all
make mistakes, sometimes huge ones. But what the poster described reads like
a bad novel.
************************************************** ***

    > You say her initial
    > plan was to stay here "for a few years to earn some money" and then go
    > home. To do that, she acquired a fake SSN and got a job. Not only is
    > using a fake SSN illegal, but she's put her employers at huge risk for
    > having employed an illegal immigrant. But she didn't see what the big
    > deal was in doing this, since she was only "staying a few years".

************************************************** ****
Not to mention that the SSN that she was using could be of some other person
who is still alive. I wonder if the poster ever thought about that thing
called Identity Theft. For all we know, she may be using an active SNN
belonging to some guy\gal. I myself am a victim of Identify Theft, so
reading those blatant confessions of violations of federal law makes my head
spin. When I worked for State Department, we had a guy who almost lost his
security clearance because of ID Theft. When State did a background check,
his SSN popped up as connected with 5 different names, all of which were
common in South America. It took quite a bit of time for the poor guy to get
that straightened out. Keeping that experience in mind, I can't believe
that the poster sees his gf's actions as harmless.

You know, my brother and his bride got married in the US while she was on a
visitor's visa. I know that it's dancing around the immigration law, but
let's say that their circumstances at that time made this option especially
interesting. They consulted with an immigration attorney (whole $75 bucks
for an hour long consultation, getting their documents in order and begin
advised about the problems associated with not going the K-1 route) and
decided to file for AOS.

Because of that I thought ten times before posting on this list and asking
for advice. That was because I didn't want to make people angry, people who
have been waiting for months to get reunited with their loved ones. My
husband spent the majority of his life in the military, and I can closely
relate to being separated for long periods of time and really having no
option of being together for a longer while. Thus, I wasn't sure if my
postings will be welcome here. As it turns out, I received help (thanks Rete
for a one liner that cleared everything up - no sarcasm intended).

But if I were in the situation of the other poster, I would be running to an
immigration attorney, not posting on a NG where driving people nuts with my
posts was guaranteed. I think the gentleman's judgment was quite poor.
************************************************** ****

    > Well,
    > let me tell you: My husband entered the States LEGALLY on a K-1 fiance
    > visa last year. He LEGALLY obtained a SSN. We may or may not stay here
    > forever; that has yet to be determined. But what I CAN tell you is that
    > we've been together here in the States for the past 8 months living on
    > my income alone. This is despite the fact that he has a legitimate SSN.
    > You know why he isn't working? It's not because he's a lazy bum. It's
    > because he hasn't yet received the documentation required to allow him
    > to work LEGALLY.
    > Don't you think my husband and I would benefit GREATLY
    > from having a two-income household?? We NEED to have that extra money
    > (for one because immigration fees are expensive to begin with). But that
    > doesn't mean he's going to just go out and get a job without the proper
    > documentation.

************************************************** ****
My brother's wife will be in exactly the same situation. She obviously wants
to work and make money, but she will patiently wait until her documents
arrive after they file. At no time has one of us thought "Weeeeeeee, let's
just get her a fraudulent SSN so that she can work". But I guess here is
where we differ from the poster. He doesn't seem to think that it is NOT ok
to violate the law just '...because she thought....'. If you ask me, I don't
think she thought about anything and anyone at all, maybe other than
herself.
************************************************** ****

    > In the meantime, your gf has been here for 3 years,
    > working and earning income illegally, which has probably enhanced her
    > lifestyle versus if she wasn't working and earning that income (like my
    > husband). And on top of everything else, she doesn't think there's
    > anything wrong with that!
    > Sorry, just had to get that rant out of my
    > system...

************************************************** ******
I don't think an apology is needed. I get the feeling that many people here
think along the same lines. It all boils down to living in la-la-land of
getting everything the easy way and always taking the path of least
resistance. Jenney, let me ask you a simple question. If you were the
immigration officer assigned to their case, would you be willing to let the
girlfriend adjust her status to permanent resident? If not anything else, I
think that they would have a huge chance of being considered for the 'green
card marriage' couple of the year.
************************************************** ******
LittleGrl

Dave

"Paul Gani" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "bkholdem" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...

    >
    > Most immigration attorneys are willing to evaluate your (her) case for an
    > initial consult fee of between $75-$300. Often, this fee is waived if you
    > decide to hire them. If you can't afford $300, then frankly, you can't
    > afford to marry her. Even if she had no deportation issues, the USCIS
    > application filing fees to obtain a green card run more than that!
    >
Most often this fee is not waived, but is considered part of the total
fee if you hire the attorney. The up front consult fee is built into
the fee structure but marketed as if the client is getting some sort
of deal (which more often than not, he is not). A truly free
consultation is just that, a consultation for which no fee is charged,
irrespective of whether or not further services are hired. There are
a few lawyers who will give genuinely free consulations.

And since I've posted to this thread, to the OP, dude, this is a train
wreck. Get out while you can.

supernav

I can already look into the crystal ball and tell you the future:

she'll try and fight the deportation.

she'll loses and told to get out.

she then ignores voluntary depature, and goes back into hiding -- never to be seen ever again.

It's been repeated like this a million times all over the country.

-= nav =-

Sarahstokesuk

Hi Jenney & Mark,

Just a note to say I feel your pain...I have been here since August and gave up
my full-time teaching job to come here...I have applied for AOS / EAD and am
DESPERATE to get out to work, I spend at least a couple of hours a day in tears
because I'm so damn frustrated being unemployed. I should have had my EAD
interview on Wednesday but it got postponed for 3 weeks because of the
snow...another kick in the teeth, just when I thought I was getting somewhere.
But would I ever consider going out and working without authorisation???? NO
SIR!!!!! I think too much of my husband to risk getting kicked out for good!

From Sarah

Bkholdem

Jenney & Mark <member2595@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Originally posted by Bkholdem
    > > She has been here about
    > three years. I am not clear exactly what type of notice she received
    > first but it was some kind of notice for an appearance in court which
    > she ignored. She initially just intended to stay here for a few years to
    > earn some money and then return home so she ignored this.
    >
    >
    > Though you say you never meant to offend anyone in this NG by
    > discussing your gf's actions, you have stepped on a hornet's nest, I'm
    > afraid. And yes, your gf's actions DO disgust me.
    >
    > You say her initial
    > plan was to stay here "for a few years to earn some money" and then go
    > home. To do that, she acquired a fake SSN and got a job. Not only is
    > using a fake SSN illegal, but she's put her employers at huge risk for
    > having employed an illegal immigrant. But she didn't see what the big
    > deal was in doing this, since she was only "staying a few years".
    >
    > Well,
    > let me tell you: My husband entered the States LEGALLY on a K-1 fiance
    > visa last year. He LEGALLY obtained a SSN. We may or may not stay here
    > forever; that has yet to be determined. But what I CAN tell you is that
    > we've been together here in the States for the past 8 months living on
    > my income alone. This is despite the fact that he has a legitimate SSN.
    > You know why he isn't working? It's not because he's a lazy bum. It's
    > because he hasn't yet received the documentation required to allow him
    > to work LEGALLY.
    >
    > Don't you think my husband and I would benefit GREATLY
    > from having a two-income household?? We NEED to have that extra money
    > (for one because immigration fees are expensive to begin with). But that
    > doesn't mean he's going to just go out and get a job without the proper
    > documentation.
    >
    > In the meantime, your gf has been here for 3 years,
    > working and earning income illegally, which has probably enhanced her
    > lifestyle versus if she wasn't working and earning that income (like my
    > husband). And on top of everything else, she doesn't think there's
    > anything wrong with that!
    >
    > Sorry, just had to get that rant out of my
    > system...
    >
    > ~ Jenney

That's all fine and dandy. What would you have done if you had met
him in the us after he had overstayed his visa and recieved a
deportation notice?

Andrew Defaria

bkholdem wrote:

    > That's all fine and dandy. What would you have done if you had met him
    > in the us after he had overstayed his visa and recieved a deportation
    > notice?

Not get involved with such a person under the guise of "a person who
does not have good moral character to start with"!

What would you have done if you had met your sweety then found out that
she was being sought for bank robbery, murder, robbing cars or extortion
for example? You probably would not get involved with such a person. Now
you may not view overstaying your visa as as bad but it surely is not
harmless nor as victimless as you had thought. Truth is you did not put
that much thought into the matter in the first place. Now you are paying
for that lack of foresight. Sorry this is happening to you. The fact
that your honey is hiding such things should be a large red flag but I
suspect you are blinded by love. Wake up man! As another had posted this
is a train wreck waiting to happen. Get off the tracks! You should be
asking yourself "If she's hiding this from me, what else is she capable
of hiding from me?".
--
My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.

Just Jenney

My husband would never plan to move to another country, obtain a fake SSN and work illegally in the first place. He would come to the US to visit, as a tourist, and leave before his 3-month visa waiver expired, as permitted by law. He wouldn't have ever done what your gf did, so I really don't need to know what I'd do.

But if by some obscene chance I was in your shoes, I would go to a lawyer immediately if I wanted him to stay with me in the US. I also would force him to discuss these matters with me frankly and thoroughly, or else seriously reconsider my whole relationship with him and whether he is trustworthy.

Otherwise, I would put a lot of effort into looking at how to relocate (LEGALLY) with him back to England, if staying the US wasn't a viable option.

You don't seem to understand and/or accept that this isn't just a simple issue of your gf "overstaying her visa and receiving a deportation notice." Your gf MOVED to another country on a tourist visa with the intention of working there illegally. She didn't just accidentally "overstay" her visa, she PLANNED on it. You have said yourself she planned to live and work here for "a few years".

Forgive me, but I don't know of ANY tourist visa that allows you to stay in a country for more than a few months, much less to work legally during that time. And the fact that she acquired and used a fake SSN shows a huge amount of premeditation on her part to circumvent the law. How did she GET that fake SSN, anyway?? And let's not forget how she actively ignored the court notice because it interfered with her plans...

Every response you've received in this thread is telling you the same thing: GET LEGAL ADVICE. You say you can't afford it -- your gf is making money, surely she's able to fork out some money to help you pay to get her out of this mess.

~ Jenney

Bkholdem

Andrew DeFaria <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected] ervers.com>...
    > bkholdem wrote:
    >
    > > That's all fine and dandy. What would you have done if you had met him
    > > in the us after he had overstayed his visa and recieved a deportation
    > > notice?
    >
    > Not get involved with such a person under the guise of "a person who
    > does not have good moral character to start with"!
    >
    > What would you have done if you had met your sweety then found out that
    > she was being sought for bank robbery, murder, robbing cars or extortion
    > for example? You probably would not get involved with such a person. Now
    > you may not view overstaying your visa as as bad but it surely is not
    > harmless nor as victimless as you had thought. Truth is you did not put
    > that much thought into the matter in the first place.

You are correct that I do not view it as a bad moral crime. I did not
put that much thought into it at first because I did not know. We
started out dating. Both of us were not looking for a serious
relationship. I don't blame her for not telling me about this in the
beginning as it was really not relevant to our situation. As we grew
closer and developed stronger feelings for each other she did tell me.
I considered her timing appropriate. Obviously she felt, and still
feels, very bad about this. She did not factor the possibility of
meeting someone and falling in love into the equation prior to
overstaying her visa. In retrospect it was certainly a big mistake.
I do not hold this against her however. I love her and not have been
in love with a woman (other than her) for over 15 years. She has
healed my broken heart and for that I am eternally greatful. She has
helped me learn how to love again. She has opened up a whole new
world for me.



Now you are paying
    > for that lack of foresight.

Well not at the moment but I certainly may pay dearly if we can not
find a solution. Such is life. If it comes to it I will move to
Brazil and die poor and broke to continue my life with her. I have
been given the greatest gift humanly possible and consider myself to
be blessed. Of course I am hoping to find a more comfortable
solution. People have advised me to talk to an immigration attorney
and I intend to do so.



Sorry this is happening to you.


Thank you. I am happy that some of the posters have been able to
empathize with me. I came here seeking help and found some of the
replies to be presumptious and consdesending. Such is life. Others
have been kind enough to offer advice.


The fact
    > that your honey is hiding such things should be a large red flag but I
    > suspect you are blinded by love.

To some extent I am 'blinded by love'. Most people truely in love
are, I suspect, to some degree. The fact of the matter is that she
did not 'hide anything from me'. We were dating. We became more
serious. I fell in love with her and she fell in love with me too. I
cried my heart out and thanked God out loud when I told her that I
loved her. Prior to her telling me she loved me she also broke down
in tears and shared with me the situation (overstaying her visa, not
responding to a court date). She was extremely upset because of the
situation and did not factor the possibility of falling in love with
someone here. I did not understand the ramifications of that
political situation at the time, and to be honest I still don't. That
is why I came here. I was hoping on a marriage/visa board that I may
find someone in a similar situation, someone who has been, or someone
with info that could help me.


Wake up man!

I don't understand why this seems like such a 'red flag' to people.
If I was in another country, never anticipated to return, overstayed
my visa and then met someone and fell in love with them...I would be
surprised if they thought that was some major red flag of a character
flaw or something. While it may pose major problems due to residency,
politics, or whatever...I don't think it speaks to my character or
value as a human being. I don't think that I would do that, but then
again I don't live in a second or third world country. On the grand
scale of wrongs that a human can do I don't see this one as very high
up on the scale, in fact I see it as very low on the scale.

I guess one of MY mistakes, in retrospect, was anticipating that this
board would be less 'political' and more 'love' based. I think I'm
going to search for a love/visa message board.


As another had posted this
    > is a train wreck waiting to happen. Get off the tracks!


I'm not on the tracks, I'm on the train. I'm with the woman I love.
I am a man, not a coward. It is my job to save us both. I don't know
how to operate this 'train'. That is why I am here. As I indicated
above I am willing to jump off this train with my love before it
crashes. Anyone who knows how to operate this train to give us a fair
chance that it will not crash please email me @ [email protected]

God Bless

Andrew Defaria

bkholdem wrote:

    > You are correct that I do not view it as a bad moral crime.

You should, because it is.

    > I did not put that much thought into it at first because I did not
    > know. We started out dating. Both of us were not looking for a serious
    > relationship. I don't blame her for not telling me about this in the
    > beginning as it was really not relevant to our situation. As we grew
    > closer and developed stronger feelings for each other she did tell me.
    > I considered her timing appropriate.

At some point prior to you getting engaged such things should come up.
It is at this point that you need to make a decision whether to go
onward and accept the consequences or not.

    > Obviously she felt, and still feels, very bad about this.

She obviously did not feel bad enough about this to take care of it when
she should have.

    > She did not factor the possibility of meeting someone and falling in
    > love into the equation prior to overstaying her visa.

You say this as if it should be a factor. It is irrelevant whether or
not she would fall in love at some point down the road. What she did was
wrong! It was wrong the 1st day of her overstay, it is still wrong
today. She choose to ignore the law.

    > In retrospect it was certainly a big mistake. I do not hold this
    > against her however. I love her and not have been in love with a woman
    > (other than her) for over 15 years. She has healed my broken heart and
    > for that I am eternally greatful. She has helped me learn how to love
    > again. She has opened up a whole new world for me.

My prediction is that she will also break your heart even worse. Hey if
you're willing to suffer through that then go ahead.

    >> Now you are paying for that lack of foresight.
    > Well not at the moment but I certainly may pay dearly if we can not
    > find a solution.

I'm not sure there is a solution, save, like I said before, packing your
bags and moving to Brasil.

    > Such is life.

Yes it is. Question is: Is this the path you wish to take with your life?

    > If it comes to it I will move to Brazil and die poor and broke to
    > continue my life with her.

Why do you think you must die poor and broke in Brasil? IOW why couldn't
you flourish there?

    > I have been given the greatest gift humanly possible and consider
    > myself to be blessed. Of course I am hoping to find a more comfortable
    > solution. People have advised me to talk to an immigration attorney
    > and I intend to do so.
    > Sorry this is happening to you.
    > Thank you. I am happy that some of the posters have been able to
    > empathize with me. I came here seeking help and found some of the
    > replies to be presumptious and consdesending. Such is life. Others
    > have been kind enough to offer advice.

No I'm more sorry for you in the pitying sense as it appears that you
are foolishly in love (the emphasis is on the word foolishly). You are
not thinking right. I fear in the end you will be more hurt than helped.
But hey it's your life.

I've offered my advice as have other people, which is to think very
carefully before getting involved in somebody who so cavilerly ignores
important laws that have dire penalties that can also cause tremendous
hurt on other innocent people.

    >> The fact that your honey is hiding such things should be a large red
    >> flag but I
    >> suspect you are blinded by love.
    > To some extent I am 'blinded by love'.

To a larger extent than you are willing to admit I suspect.

    > Most people truely in love are, I suspect, to some degree.

Housepucky! You can be in love and still have your wits about you.

    > The fact of the matter is that she did not 'hide anything from me'.

She is hiding things from you right now! Why do I say that? Because she
does not wish to discuss the issue as you have already admitted to. That
sir is hiding things from you.

    > We were dating. We became more serious. I fell in love with her and
    > she fell in love with me too. I cried my heart out and thanked God out
    > loud when I told her that I
    > loved her. Prior to her telling me she loved me she also broke down in
    > tears and shared with me the situation (overstaying her visa, not
    > responding to a court date). She was extremely upset because of the
    > situation and did not factor the possibility of falling in love with
    > someone here.

Again, there is no factoring of love possibilities involved. She
knowingly broke the law and has been evading it for quite some time now.
This is the same whether she met you or not. Or are you attempting to
say that somehow it is now important whereas before she met you it was
nothing? No doubt is it important to you and important to the life you
and her wish to put together. She should have thought of this
beforehand, whether or not she "fell in love".

And it would also enter into my mind whether or not she truly loves you
or is just looking for a relationship hoping that it would help her to
be able to stay here.

    > I did not understand the ramifications of that political situation at
    > the time, and to be honest I still don't.

Obviously. It's not political - it's the law. It was the law before - it
still is.

    > That is why I came here. I was hoping on a marriage/visa board that I
    > may find someone in a similar situation, someone who has been, or
    > someone with info that could help me.

Many people have already told you - get an immigration attorney. Let us
know what they think.

    > Wake up man!
    > I don't understand why this seems like such a 'red flag' to people.

Lies and deception, to you or to other people (employers, governments)
etc are general considered a sign of bad character. Don't you agree?

    > If I was in another country, never anticipated to return,

Wait right here! Who gives you the authority to invade somebody else's
country (home) and declare that you wish to stay without anticipating
returning to your country?!? You are a guest here and as such must abide
by our rules.

    > overstayed my visa

Otherwise known as, became a criminal by overstaying your welcome and
violating laws for which you could be thrown out of the country and
banned from returning...

    > and then met someone and fell in love with them...

Irrelevant!

    > I would be surprised if they thought that was some major red flag of a
    > character flaw or something.

Well I, for one, would. So do many of my fellow citizens. And, most
importantly, the authorities have deemed that such violators should be
punished.

    > While it may pose major problems due to residency, politics, or
    > whatever...

There have been others here who have pointed out to you the negative
effects of people who commit such blatant violations of the law. Who are
you to say that you will be granted a visa to VISIT for a certain time
period and that you get to decide to extend your welcome at your own
choosing, thereby making it worse for others who want to come here
legally?!?

    > I don't think it speaks to my character or value as a human being.

It speaks volumes! Say you get invited to somebody's house to live for a
short time period. Then you decide you want to stay there for years!
Most people call such people louses and rightfully so.

    > I don't think that I would do that, but then again I don't live in a
    > second or third world country.

How is living in a second or third world country somehow transpose
people who live there to have some God given right to invade my home and
take up residence, resources and cause others who wish to come here
legally and still others who are burdened with excessively long waits
and delays to be further burdened with even longer waits and delays?!?
We (the US) did not make those other countries second or third world
countries! And we are indeed willing to help those people out but at our
own time schedule, with our own rules and processes so that it is done
as fairly as possible. Cutting in line as your girlfriend has done ruins
it for everybody else and she should be punished for her violations of
the law! Sorry you fell in love with her. Perhaps you should pay
attention to her character as demonstrated by her actions and her
blatant "I don't have to follow the rules because I'm not in love yet"
attitude.

    > On the grand scale of wrongs that a human can do I don't see this one
    > as very high up on the scale, in fact I see it as very low on the scale.

Of course you don't because you want her to get away with it so that you
are not inconvenienced.

    > I guess one of MY mistakes, in retrospect, was anticipating that this
    > board would be less 'political' and more 'love' based.

It's more reality based and law based than political.

    > I think I'm going to search for a love/visa message board.

Otherwise known as "I'm a love sick individual and I don't like to face
reality, I don't like the answers I'm getting here so I'll go elsewhere
to see how I can get my girlfriend off and skirt around her blatant
violation of the law...".

    >> As another had posted this is a train wreck waiting to happen. Get
    >> off the tracks!
    > I'm not on the tracks, I'm on the train.

Think about it... Does it really matter if you're on the tracks or the
train if a wreck is about to happen?

    > I'm with the woman I love. I am a man, not a coward.

Then face the fact that your girlfriend is a criminal and the punishment
of the crime may cause you to live outside the US.

    > It is my job to save us both.

I'm convinced that often the best course of action is to cut your losses.

    > I don't know how to operate this 'train'. That is why I am here. As I
    > indicated above I am willing to jump off this train with my love
    > before it crashes. Anyone who knows how to operate this train to give
    > us a fair chance that it will not crash please email me @
    > [email protected]

Good luck.
--
If you mated a bulldog and a shitsu, would it be called a bullshit?

Paul Gani

"bkholdem" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > You are correct that I do not view it as a bad moral crime. I did not

You are correct - it is not an immoral crime. What is immoral are the laws
written to prevent the natural migration of human beings. These immoral
laws are usually written so the people who arrived somewhere first (or
plundered, murdered, or drove off the original/previous inhabitants) can
hoard the local resources to themselves.

Please don't listen to the self-righteous hypocrits in this newsgroup. If
the two of you love each other, then you should pursue whatever avenues
necessary to be together. And don't forget to hire a lawyer.

Paulgani

Andrew Defaria

Paul Gani wrote:

    >> You are correct that I do not view it as a bad moral crime. I did not
    > You are correct - it is not an immoral crime. What is immoral are the
    > laws written to prevent the natural migration of human beings.

Yes let's let everybody here into America - no questions asked! It is
then that this country will become as 3rd world as any other 3rd world
country and then and only then will the desire of the masses to come
here stop. It's at that time, where every immigrants wishes are
fulfilled, that their wishes will become dreaded because they will have
ruined it for all of us. Who are we to want to keep our homes? We are
but the people who have built this great nation and now it is time for
us to give it up to the have nots - surely they are more deserving of
the riches of this land and our efforts than we are!

    > These immoral laws are usually written so the people who arrived
    > somewhere first (or plundered, murdered, or drove off the
    > original/previous inhabitants) can hoard the local resources to
    > themselves.

Same is true for every other country on this Earth.

    > Please don't listen to the self-righteous hypocrits in this newsgroup.
    > If the two of you love each other, then you should pursue whatever
    > avenues necessary to be together.

Yes. Laws be damned! Sovernty be damned! Property rights be damned! I
suggest that since Paul is so much in your camp that you camp in his
living room! Surely he will not mine you two, loving couple, struggling
against the big meanies who wish to have a sovergn nation and apply laws
enacted by duly elected officials... And he doesn't mine you all coming
here and using our stuff - he's all for it so surely he must be willing
to help you guys out.

    > And don't forget to hire a lawyer.

Nor your hot dogs and marsh mellows. Perhaps you could share them with
Mr. Gani...

    :-)

--
E-mail returned to sender -- insufficient voltage.

Paul Gani

"Andrew DeFaria" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Paul Gani wrote:
    > > You are correct - it is not an immoral crime. What is immoral are the
    > > laws written to prevent the natural migration of human beings.
    > Yes let's let everybody here into America - no questions asked! It is

Your thinking is too limited. The real issue is not about letting other
people in. It is about letting our people out. It's about letting our
capital and knowledge and ideas have a free reign on the world. I'm not
proposing the elimination of America's migration laws. I'm proposing the
abolition of the the world's migration laws.

Oh, and I never said anything about private property.

Paulgani