Bkholdem

[email protected] (UkUs3) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > >From my perspective she did not
    > >break a moral law just one on the books. IMO just because something
    > >is a law does not make it morally right or wrong.
    >
    > EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!
    >
    > She has been living and working ILLEGALLY in this country for 3 years, and has
    > ignored notices to appear in court!!!!! You both need to realise that this
    > country runs on those little, insignificant laws that you have little regard
    > for because they are not 'moral'. And she won't discuss it because it upsets
    > her???? She needs to get a grip!! Perhaps if the two of you genuinely want to
    > be together you should go and live in Brazil...
    >
    > From an annoyed, 100% LEGAL immigrant.

I respect your opinion. We may go to Brazil together. Thank you for
your opinion mr perfect law abiding citizen. Some of us in this world
do not live up to your standards. I guess I am one of them. I can
live with that. Sorry that you were annoyed by my post.

Bkholdem

"Paul Gani" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "bkholdem" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > makes it even more difficult for me because I really want to know what
    > > kind of legal dilemma we are faced with but do not know where to turn.
    > > I can not afford to pay an attorney 1 to 1 time to discuss this.
    >
    > > the court process was a big mistake and this causes her much pain. I
    > > don't know where to turn for help (I understand that I could plunk
    > > down some cash and talk to an attorney but don't have the money right
    > > now and am hoping there are other resources I can turn to first). If
    >
    > Two comments.
    >
    > Most immigration attorneys are willing to evaluate your (her) case for an
    > initial consult fee of between $75-$300. Often, this fee is waived if you
    > decide to hire them. If you can't afford $300, then frankly, you can't
    > afford to marry her. Even if she had no deportation issues, the USCIS
    > application filing fees to obtain a green card run more than that!
    >
    > By all means, continue your internet research. You may find some
    > immigration books in a bookstore to also be helpful. However, don't ever
    > substitute YOUR limited knowledge and judgment with that of an experienced
    > immigration attorney in a situation as complex as yours (hers). Your first
    > priority: do no harm! Don't call the USCIS, write a letter, file a form, or
    > even contact a congressman unless you have been advised to do so by an
    > attorney! Please remember, whatever information you locate on the Internet
    > or in books could be wrong, inapplicable, or outdated! Do all the research
    > you want, but keep it in the proper context!
    >
    > Paulgani

Thanks, this advice was very helpful. I appreciate it.

DCMark

I know that. What I meant was the the details, complexities and difficulty of a marriage/deportation case will require him to hire a lawyer if he has any hope of success.

Bkholdem

DCMark <member6276@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Bk:
    >
    > You wrote alot there and much of it controversial. I expect you to
    > get slammed very soon.

That's OK. I find myself in a difficult situation and am not perfect.
Being judged is nothing new to me and I can handle it.

    >
    > I do agree that many laws are not moral.
    > However, that does not obviate our need to follow them or fully face the
    > consequences.

Agreed 100%.

MLK thought certain laws were wrong and he violated them
    > knowing full well he would be punished.
    >
    > You wife's violation of the
    > law is NOT a victimless crime as you suggest. She is taking work from
    > lawful residents.

I'm not so sure about that. She works on the books and pays taxes,
medicare, whatever into the system and will never see any of the
benefits as it is under a false SSN. Oh she is not my wife but my gf.
For people who say it is wrong I can respect that opinion. She is
not perfect and neither am I. I have just found myself in a situation
where I have found happiness with a woman and am trying to work on
some issues. Sorry to those I offend after learning that my gf is an
illegal immigrant working in the us. She is a good woman, pays taxes,
makes people happy, is a good friend, etc and I love her.


She is costing the government money and resources
    > tracking her down.

I'm quite sure she has paid more into the system than has been spent
'tracking her down'.

She is also hurting people in this newsgroup who are
    > following the rules.

For this I apologize. I was not sure where to turn for advice. I
tried to be discreet in my initial post but someone asked for more
information. I provided more. Some of that info upsets some people,
sorry I didn't mean to offend anyone. I figured that someone here may
be able to help and they have.


Her breaking of the rules causes the BCIS to spend
    > resources that it otherwise could dedicate to moving legal applications
    > forward.
    >
    > That being said, I understand you love her and that you
    > forgive her. However, you are not the issue, its the US government.
    > And the US government is going to require that you hire a competent
    > attorney for this. THere are not pat answers or set rules (2 years at
    > home, etc). She could be banned for 0, 3, 10 years.
    >
    > As a newlywed, I
    > would also caution you to consider what it means that you cannot discuss
    > these issues at length with her. The fact that she ignores and denies
    > HUGE problems would be something to consider in your decisions. This
    > denial only makes things much more difficult and makes your ability to
    > help her all the more limited.

Yes, this is true. I recognize this. This is part of an iterpersonal
problem in our relationship. It is not perfect and I don't expect it
to be. Some things take time. I am helping her with communication
skills (not language but discussing issues) as it is one of my
strengths that complements her and she has other strenghts that
complement me.


    >
    > Good luck in your quest. I too love
    > Brazilians. Just be careful

Thank you, I will be careful. I will talk to an lawyer before talking
to any gov't office. I'm just hoping to find out more about the laws
prior to doing this.

Mrraveltay

bkholdem wrote:

    >
    >
    > I'm not so sure about that. She works on the books and pays taxes,
    > medicare, whatever into the system and will never see any of the
    > benefits as it is under a false SSN.

You forgot to mention that violation earlier. This means she probably
signed an I-9 form indicating the information on the form, including the
SSN number was hers. Also, she possibly indicated this info on W-4 and
on tax returns. Knowingly using a false SSN number is a crime.

Additionally, if people illegally stay in the US on a visitor visa, it
makes it harder for others from that country to obtain visitor visas.
I know first hand how this affects Russians. Due to the high number of
violations, it is difficult to get visitor visas. It is NOT a very good
feeling to know that your wife is hurting because her mother was denied
a visa to visit her and her home. Luckily, only the first one was denied
and the past 3 have been successful... But, I don't forget the sadness
of the first one.

Paul Gani

"bkholdem" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Thanks, this advice was very helpful. I appreciate it.

I have one more piece of advice.

You want to get your money's worth at the consultation with the attorney.

If you provide vague information, you will get back a vague answer.

Your girlfriend should be present, with ALL the documentation regarding her
status here, including passport, copies of visa application, deport notice,
employment docs, etc... Bring everything, and let the attorney decide what
is relevent and what is not. Make sure your g/f is in the mood to candidly
discuss her situation with the attorney.

Paulgani

Matthew Udall

Just curious, have you called a few attorneys to get their prices for a consultation? If so, what sort of prices have you been given? Usually consultation are not “that� expensive.

Do you have a job? Do you own the computer you use to access the net? Do you own a car? Do you ever eat out? Do you pay rent or pay a house payment? Do you buy new jeans, shoes, shirts, socks, etc. from time to time? All of those cost money too, and some far more than the nominal cost of a consultation. I guess a lot depends on how much getting good advice is worth to you.

Good luck.

DCMark

Andrew raises an important issue. If you gf is her without a visa, but works and pays taxes, its possible she is using a fradulent ID and/or social security number. This is something you need to find out about now as it makes things more serious for her. Good luck

Andrew Defaria

bkholdem wrote:

    >> You wife's violation of the law is NOT a victimless crime as you
    >> suggest. She is taking work from lawful residents.
    > I'm not so sure about that.

It's demonstrable. She is illegal. She is working. She is therefore
occupying a position at work that could be occupied by somebody who is
not illegal. Ergo she is taking work from a lawful resident.

    > She works on the books and pays taxes, medicare, whatever into the system

Doesn't matter if she is "paying into the system or not". She is still
taking the spot of somebody who is legally here.

    > and will never see any of the benefits as it is under a false SSN.

See now you hadn't oughta said that. Using a fake SSN can get her into
even bigger trouble, like a lifetime ban. And you are here admitting it
in a public forum. You should consult a competent immigration attorney
before you further shoot yourself in the foot!

    > Oh she is not my wife but my gf. For people who say it is wrong I can
    > respect that opinion. She is not perfect and neither am I.

Nobody's perfect. But people must pay for their imperfections as
proscribed by law.

    > I have just found myself in a situation where I have found happiness
    > with a woman and am trying to work on some issues. Sorry to those I
    > offend after learning that my gf is an illegal immigrant working in
    > the us. She is a good woman, pays taxes, makes people happy, is a good
    > friend, etc and I love her.

The issue of illegal immigrant is irrespective of "good woman, pays
taxes, makes people happy, is a good friend". Granted those are good and
nice to have - it's better than if she were a "bad woman, doesn't pay
taxes, makes people mad and is a bad friend" for sure. Still she had
violated the law and there are consequences that she, and now you, have
to pay. She had dragged you into this mess.

    > I'm quite sure she has paid more into the system than has been spent
    > 'tracking her down'.

So this makes it OK?!? No it doesn't. She is spending my tax money on
her decision to violate our laws. I, for one, would like to see her
punished for her actions.

    > For this I apologize. I was not sure where to turn for advice. I tried
    > to be discreet in my initial post but someone asked for more information.

You tried to be vague, which won't work. I asked for more information.
There is nothing to be gained by hiding information, except perhaps as a
further attempt to elude the consequences of her illegal behavior.

    > I provided more. Some of that info upsets some people, sorry I didn't
    > mean to offend anyone. I figured that someone here may be able to help
    > and they have.

It's really immaterial if you meant to offend or if you apologize. Your
girlfriend is a criminal and should be treated as such.

    > Yes, this is true. I recognize this. This is part of an iterpersonal
    > problem in our relationship. It is not perfect and I don't expect it
    > to be. Some things take time. I am helping her with communication
    > skills (not language but discussing issues) as it is one of my
    > strengths that complements her and she has other strenghts that
    > complement me.

Sounds like a disaster in the making. I hope you like moving to Brasil.

    > Thank you, I will be careful. I will talk to an lawyer before talking
    > to any gov't office. I'm just hoping to find out more about the laws
    > prior to doing this.

You can try http://uscis.gov/graphics/lawsregs/INA.htm

--
Error reading FAT record: Try the SKINNY one? (Y/N)

Andrew Defaria

DCMark wrote:

    > I know that. What I meant was the the details, complexities and
    > difficulty of a marriage/deportation case will require him to hire a
    > lawyer if he has any hope of success.

I figured as much however I don't like the usage of the term "required".
I would use "behooved" or "it would be prudent" instead.
--
Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.

Sfm

"Paul Gani" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "bkholdem" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > makes it even more difficult for me because I really want to know what
    > > kind of legal dilemma we are faced with but do not know where to turn.
    > > I can not afford to pay an attorney 1 to 1 time to discuss this.
    >
    > > the court process was a big mistake and this causes her much pain. I
    > > don't know where to turn for help (I understand that I could plunk
    > > down some cash and talk to an attorney but don't have the money right
    > > now and am hoping there are other resources I can turn to first). If
    >
    > Two comments.
    >
    > Most immigration attorneys are willing to evaluate your (her) case for an
    > initial consult fee of between $75-$300. Often, this fee is waived if you
    > decide to hire them. If you can't afford $300, then frankly, you can't
    > afford to marry her. Even if she had no deportation issues, the USCIS
    > application filing fees to obtain a green card run more than that!
    >
    > By all means, continue your internet research. You may find some
    > immigration books in a bookstore to also be helpful. However, don't ever
    > substitute YOUR limited knowledge and judgment with that of an experienced
    > immigration attorney in a situation as complex as yours (hers). Your first
    > priority: do no harm! Don't call the USCIS, write a letter, file a form, or
    > even contact a congressman unless you have been advised to do so by an
    > attorney! Please remember, whatever information you locate on the Internet
    > or in books could be wrong, inapplicable, or outdated! Do all the research
    > you want, but keep it in the proper context!
    >
    > Paulgani


I read this post and want to take both sides of the issue:

Conservative: She broke the law and by allowing her to stay will only
encourage others to break our immigration laws and border controls.

Liberal: Of course she broke the law but let her stay. Our nation is a
nation of immigrants and we should refuse no one illegal or not and
besides our for-fathers broke originally settled America without any
explicit authorization from the Indians to do so.

Our nation can be so divided between liberal and conservative views
but how about a comprise! yes, she broke the law, she wants to marry
an American citizen. She can stay only if she pays a hefty fine and
follows through with the marriage.

Andrew Defaria

sfm wrote:

    > I read this post and want to take both sides of the issue:

Yet you eventually take the liberal side...

    > Conservative: She broke the law and by allowing her to stay will only
    > encourage others to break our immigration laws and border controls.

It's not that it will encourage others to break out immigration laws
(though that might be one effect), it is that the law has a proscribed
penalty and should be applied (otherwise why bother having the law in
the first place?)

    > Liberal: Of course she broke the law but let her stay. Our nation is a
    > nation of immigrants

I'm just wondering about this often said phrase. True there has been
many, many immigrants who have come to this land to settle here. True
there are still many more who wish to come. However, when does, and
should, this phrase stop? When do we become our *own* nation, one of
people from right here, instead of a place where everybody comes from?
I'm not trying to say that immigrants are no longer welcome and did not
play a large role in making this nation, rather will we always be a
nation of immigrants or will we, at some time, be a nation of our own?
And how come we're a nation of immigrants and say Brasil is not a nation
of immigrants? Don't people immigrant there too? How about Australia?
Etc... Are they all nations of their own right or are they also
considered a nation of immigrants?

    > and we should refuse no one illegal or not

If that be the case then why have immigration laws at all?

    > and besides our for-fathers broke originally settled America without
    > any explicit authorization from the Indians to do so.

I suspect for any modern nation one can trace back to previous peoples,
tribes or whatever and make the same claim...

    > Our nation can be so divided between liberal and conservative views
    > but how about a comprise!

Compromise: A decision made such that nobody is totally happy with it! :-)

    > yes, she broke the law, she wants to marry an American citizen. She
    > can stay only if she pays a hefty fine and follows through with the
    > marriage.

I'm sure there are quite a few people here who would like to be able to
take the same track, who are willing to pay a hefty fine so that they
loved one can "break the law" and ultimately be forgiven by following
through with the marriage they intended on in the first place.

Hey wait! That might be an excellent idea for reducing, and/or
eliminating the current backlogs! Just have the USCIS official state how
one can maneuver the law, partially violating it, what the fine would be
and how one eventually can simply pay an additional amount and gain the
immigration benefit with the good graces of the USCIS and our Justice
Department. I'm sure than many even here would take advantage of it and
poof! The USCIS budget problems would also disappear! You ain't a
politician are you?

(For those who could not figure it out yet I was being sarcastic about
the last paragraph).

--
God must love stupid people... He made so many.

lairdside

Hmm..... so.. if those who break the law can pay they can stay eh?

Sounds like justice for the rich as opposed to the poor to me. I thought justice was supposed to be for all.

Money is not supposed to make you above the law IMHO.

Just Jenney

Though you say you never meant to offend anyone in this NG by discussing your gf's actions, you have stepped on a hornet's nest, I'm afraid. And yes, your gf's actions DO disgust me.

You say her initial plan was to stay here "for a few years to earn some money" and then go home. To do that, she acquired a fake SSN and got a job. Not only is using a fake SSN illegal, but she's put her employers at huge risk for having employed an illegal immigrant. But she didn't see what the big deal was in doing this, since she was only "staying a few years".

Well, let me tell you: My husband entered the States LEGALLY on a K-1 fiance visa last year. He LEGALLY obtained a SSN. We may or may not stay here forever; that has yet to be determined. But what I CAN tell you is that we've been together here in the States for the past 8 months living on my income alone. This is despite the fact that he has a legitimate SSN. You know why he isn't working? It's not because he's a lazy bum. It's because he hasn't yet received the documentation required to allow him to work LEGALLY.

Don't you think my husband and I would benefit GREATLY from having a two-income household?? We NEED to have that extra money (for one because immigration fees are expensive to begin with). But that doesn't mean he's going to just go out and get a job without the proper documentation.

In the meantime, your gf has been here for 3 years, working and earning income illegally, which has probably enhanced her lifestyle versus if she wasn't working and earning that income (like my husband). And on top of everything else, she doesn't think there's anything wrong with that!

Sorry, just had to get that rant out of my system...

~ Jenney

Andrew Defaria

lairdside wrote:

    > Hmm..... so.. if those who break the law can pay they can stay eh?
    > Sounds like justice for the rich as opposed to the poor to me. I
    > thought justice was supposed to be for all.
    > Money is not supposed to make you above the law IMHO.

Ahem... Well then. You missed this part:

(For those who could not figure it out yet I was being sarcastic
about the last paragraph).

An apparently this part (randomly generated), also applies:

God must love stupid people... He made so many.

    :-)
--
When there's a will, I want to be in it.