Bkholdem

What is the deal with this? What happens afterwards re: us gov't.
rules, etc? Any safeguards or things to do that help the situation?

Folinskyinla

Hi:

Timing is everything. Talk to a competent immigration attorney.

Andrew Defaria

bkholdem wrote:

    > What is the deal with this?

Considering all of the background information you provided how do you
expect us to guess?

    > What happens afterwards re: us gov't. rules, etc?

After what? After they are deported?

    > Any safeguards or things to do that help the situation?

There's always the "pack my bags because I'm moving" option! :-(

--
If you mated a bulldog and a shitsu, would it be called a bullshit?

Bkholdem

Andrew DeFaria <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected] servers.com>...
    > bkholdem wrote:
    >
    > > What is the deal with this?
    >
    > Considering all of the background information you provided how do you
    > expect us to guess?

O.K. sorry. I'm a US citizen. My girlfriend came here from Brazil
intending to work for a while and return to Brazil. She did not
follow-up with some court notice regarding applying for a visa or
something and then received a deportation notice. This was before we
met. We have been together for a year now and are serious but not
living together. I did a bit of research and it seemed to me that
even if we were to marry after a long time together, being in love,
etc...

since she received a deportation notice prior to marriage (if we in
fact do this) she would still have to be deported and even then it
would not be certain that she could return to live here as my wife. I
think I read that she would have to remain in Brazil for 2 yrs. and
then we could apply for the necessary paperwork. Is this in fact
correct? How can I find out more about the situation without spending
money as I am not wealthy. Thanks for any help, advice, direction to
resources, etc that anyone can offer.

Sorry about the vauge original post.

    >
    > > What happens afterwards re: us gov't. rules, etc?
    >
    > After what? After they are deported?
    >
    > > Any safeguards or things to do that help the situation?
    >
    > There's always the "pack my bags because I'm moving" option! :-(

Andrew Defaria

bkholdem wrote:

    > Andrew DeFaria <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected] servers.com>...
    >> bkholdem wrote:
    >>> What is the deal with this?
    >> Considering all of the background information you provided how do you
    >> expect us to guess?
    > O.K. sorry. I'm a US citizen. My girlfriend came here from Brazil
    > intending to work for a while and return to Brazil. She did not
    > follow-up with some court notice regarding applying for a visa or
    > something and then received a deportation notice. This was before we
    > met. We have been together for a year now and are serious but not
    > living together.

So IOW, she violated the law and has been hiding from it for well over a
year!

(BTW I think before you receive a deportation notice you first receive a
notice to appear regarding your pending deportation for violating the
law by overstaying. Exactly how long has she been here?)

    > I did a bit of research and it seemed to me that even if we were to
    > marry after a long time together, being in love, etc... since she
    > received a deportation notice prior to marriage (if we in fact do
    > this) she would still have to be deported and even then it would not
    > be certain that she could return to live here as my wife. I
    > think I read that she would have to remain in Brazil for 2 yrs. and
    > then we could apply for the necessary paperwork.

I've heard that they forgive simple overstays but I'm not certain if
they forgive after receiving a notice of removal. Now that you've given
us more details perhaps somebody more knowledgeable can answer this for you.

    > Is this in fact correct?

Not sure.

    > How can I find out more about the situation without spending money as
    > I am not wealthy. Thanks for any help, advice, direction to resources,
    > etc that anyone can offer.

Hopefully somebody here can point you in the right direction.

Without trying to sound cold hearted, it would bother me that she has so
blatantly ignored the law. I'd be asking myself "What does this tell me
of her integrity?". It's not like she simply forgot to take care of this
last week or last month but it's been way more than 1 year! This is
serious stuff and most immigrants deep down know that it's serious stuff
(often they know more than USCs do).

Good luck.

(BTW: I'm 1/2 Brasilian)
--
Is French kissing in France just called kissing?

Mrraveltay

bkholdem wrote:
How can I find out more about the situation without spending
    > money as I am not wealthy.

I know this isn't the answer you want, but you really need to spend the
money if your goal is to marry and have her living in the US. If she has
a deportation order, you need professional assistance. Immigration under
such circumstances isn't meant to be easy and should not be done without
someone who knows what they are doing.

Folinskyinla

Hi:

You may have apologized for your first vague answer but you give a second vague answer.

Take her paperwork and see an attorney. Really. I mean this -- Go to a competent immigration attorney. An NG is not the place to figure this out.

Bkholdem

Andrew DeFaria <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected] servers.com>...
    > bkholdem wrote:
    >
    > > Andrew DeFaria <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:<[email protected] servers.com>...
    > >
    > >> bkholdem wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> What is the deal with this?
    > >>
    > >> Considering all of the background information you provided how do you
    > >> expect us to guess?
    > >
    > > O.K. sorry. I'm a US citizen. My girlfriend came here from Brazil
    > > intending to work for a while and return to Brazil. She did not
    > > follow-up with some court notice regarding applying for a visa or
    > > something and then received a deportation notice. This was before we
    > > met. We have been together for a year now and are serious but not
    > > living together.
    >
    > So IOW, she violated the law and has been hiding from it for well over a
    > year!
    >
    > (BTW I think before you receive a deportation notice you first receive a
    > notice to appear regarding your pending deportation for violating the
    > law by overstaying. Exactly how long has she been here?)

She has been here about three years. I am not clear exactly what type
of notice she received first but it was some kind of notice for an
appearance in court which she ignored. She initially just intended to
stay here for a few years to earn some money and then return home so
she ignored this. She did not plan on meeting someone in the US and
falling in love. She now regrets this situation and in fact does not
like to talk about it because it is very upsetting for her. This
makes it even more difficult for me because I really want to know what
kind of legal dilemma we are faced with but do not know where to turn.
I can not afford to pay an attorney 1 to 1 time to discuss this.
What makes it more difficult is that my girlfriend becomes very upset
when I try to talk about the subject and tries to just ignore this
problem as it is very upsetting to her. I want to have more info
before I try to re-engage her in the process.

    >
    > > I did a bit of research and it seemed to me that even if we were to
    > > marry after a long time together, being in love, etc... since she
    > > received a deportation notice prior to marriage (if we in fact do
    > > this) she would still have to be deported and even then it would not
    > > be certain that she could return to live here as my wife. I
    > > think I read that she would have to remain in Brazil for 2 yrs. and
    > > then we could apply for the necessary paperwork.
    >
    > I've heard that they forgive simple overstays but I'm not certain if
    > they forgive after receiving a notice of removal. Now that you've given
    > us more details perhaps somebody more knowledgeable can answer this for you.
    >
    > > Is this in fact correct?
    >
    > Not sure.
    >
    > > How can I find out more about the situation without spending money as
    > > I am not wealthy. Thanks for any help, advice, direction to resources,
    > > etc that anyone can offer.
    >
    > Hopefully somebody here can point you in the right direction.
    >
    > Without trying to sound cold hearted, it would bother me that she has so
    > blatantly ignored the law.

I understand your point of view. From my perspective she did not
break a moral law just one on the books. IMO just because something
is a law does not make it morally right or wrong. It does bother me
that we now have a dilemma because we have started to build a life
together and it presents a legal problem that I do not know how to
handle.



I'd be asking myself "What does this tell me
    > of her integrity?".

She is a very good person. I'm in my mid thirty's and this is the
first serious relationship that I have had. She is a very beautiful
person, someone I've opened up my heart to. I have never found a
woman whom I wanted to be this close to in all my life. She was
honest with ME about this and that is what is important to me. She
does not lie to me. Not all laws are morally correct and just because
someone does not follow every law does not make them a bad person.
Some people smoke pot. I don't but some do. I could care less if
it's 'illegal' or not. As long as they do so safely (i.e. not when
driving or working, etc) I could care less if they are 'breaking the
law' because I think the law is wrong. I am a libertarian and believe
that people should be able to do what they want as long as they are
not infringing on the rights of others. I don't want to get into a
debate on this and I respect and appreciate your opinion. I just feel
that this is a technical problem and not a moral one.

It's not like she simply forgot to take care of this
    > last week or last month but it's been way more than 1 year! This is
    > serious stuff and most immigrants deep down know that it's serious stuff
    > (often they know more than USCs do).

I think she figured that since she had no intentions of staying here
for the rest of her life she would just ignore it, make the money that
she needed and then return home. If she 'got caught and deported' or
whatever, that was seen as a low percentage risk that she was willing
to take. Since she met me and fell in love with me she now has a
reason to stay. In retrospect she realizes that not following up with
the court process was a big mistake and this causes her much pain. I
don't know where to turn for help (I understand that I could plunk
down some cash and talk to an attorney but don't have the money right
now and am hoping there are other resources I can turn to first). If
we stay together and plan to marry I will do this but hope there are
some resources and leg work I can do first that are not so expensive.


    >
    > Good luck.
    >
    > (BTW: I'm 1/2 Brasilian)

Thanks! I have never met such a warm and extremely frienly people as
Brasilian's. Being with her, her family, and friends have been some
of the most wonderful experiences in my life!

Thanks to everyone reading this. I hope someone out there can offer
me some more advice. All comments appreciated. Thank you all in
advance.

Folinskyinla

Hi:

If you love her and want to marry her, get up the $$'s for at least a consultation with an immigration attorney.

You may have no problem, you may have a big problem. Perhaps it can be solved. You don't have enough facts.

This is not an NG type of problem.

There may be low cost legal services organization in your area that can assist you. In Los Angeles, the County Bar Association has a Legal Assistance Clinic open to the public right in the same building as the CIS -- its been in operation for over 20 years now.

DCMark

Bk:

You wrote alot there and much of it controversial. I expect you to get slammed very soon.

I do agree that many laws are not moral. However, that does not obviate our need to follow them or fully face the consequences. MLK thought certain laws were wrong and he violated them knowing full well he would be punished.

You wife's violation of the law is NOT a victimless crime as you suggest. She is taking work from lawful residents. She is costing the government money and resources tracking her down. She is also hurting people in this newsgroup who are following the rules. Her breaking of the rules causes the BCIS to spend resources that it otherwise could dedicate to moving legal applications forward.

That being said, I understand you love her and that you forgive her. However, you are not the issue, its the US government. And the US government is going to require that you hire a competent attorney for this. THere are not pat answers or set rules (2 years at home, etc). She could be banned for 0, 3, 10 years.

As a newlywed, I would also caution you to consider what it means that you cannot discuss these issues at length with her. The fact that she ignores and denies HUGE problems would be something to consider in your decisions. This denial only makes things much more difficult and makes your ability to help her all the more limited.

Good luck in your quest. I too love Brazilians. Just be careful

Ukus3

    >From my perspective she did not
    >break a moral law just one on the books. IMO just because something
    >is a law does not make it morally right or wrong.

EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!

She has been living and working ILLEGALLY in this country for 3 years, and has
ignored notices to appear in court!!!!! You both need to realise that this
country runs on those little, insignificant laws that you have little regard
for because they are not 'moral'. And she won't discuss it because it upsets
her???? She needs to get a grip!! Perhaps if the two of you genuinely want to
be together you should go and live in Brazil...

From an annoyed, 100% LEGAL immigrant.

Paul Gani

"bkholdem" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > makes it even more difficult for me because I really want to know what
    > kind of legal dilemma we are faced with but do not know where to turn.
    > I can not afford to pay an attorney 1 to 1 time to discuss this.

    > the court process was a big mistake and this causes her much pain. I
    > don't know where to turn for help (I understand that I could plunk
    > down some cash and talk to an attorney but don't have the money right
    > now and am hoping there are other resources I can turn to first). If

Two comments.

Most immigration attorneys are willing to evaluate your (her) case for an
initial consult fee of between $75-$300. Often, this fee is waived if you
decide to hire them. If you can't afford $300, then frankly, you can't
afford to marry her. Even if she had no deportation issues, the USCIS
application filing fees to obtain a green card run more than that!

By all means, continue your internet research. You may find some
immigration books in a bookstore to also be helpful. However, don't ever
substitute YOUR limited knowledge and judgment with that of an experienced
immigration attorney in a situation as complex as yours (hers). Your first
priority: do no harm! Don't call the USCIS, write a letter, file a form, or
even contact a congressman unless you have been advised to do so by an
attorney! Please remember, whatever information you locate on the Internet
or in books could be wrong, inapplicable, or outdated! Do all the research
you want, but keep it in the proper context!

Paulgani

Folinskyinla

Hi Paul:

I am 100% in agreement with your statement.

Andrew Defaria

bkholdem wrote:

    >> So IOW, she violated the law and has been hiding from it for well
    >> over a year!
    >> (BTW I think before you receive a deportation notice you first
    >> receive a notice to appear regarding your pending deportation for
    >> violating the law by overstaying. Exactly how long has she been here?)
    > She has been here about three years. I am not clear exactly what type
    > of notice she received first but it was some kind of notice for an
    > appearance in court

Well then ask her! And get the exact particulars! This issue is not one
you should be vague about nor should she.

    > which she ignored.

Yes, exactly. What does this tell you about her character?

    > She initially just intended to stay here for a few years to earn some
    > money and then return home so
    > she ignored this.

Not a good reason for ignoring this. They don't give you visa so you can
"work for a few years then go home". They are very specific and have
time limits and consequences for ignoring such things. It seems like
she's just giving you and excuse so that you forgive her bad behavior.
May work on you but it won't work on them.

    > She did not plan on meeting someone in the US and falling in love.

She also did not plan on going home from your description.

    > She now regrets this situation

Because she's in trouble.

    > and in fact does not like to talk about it because it is very
    > upsetting for her.

Because it reveals her caviler attitude about this issue and how it has
gotten her in trouble. Look duke, regardless if this upsets her or not
she's gonna have to deal with it and face consequences. If she loves you
then she will deal with it. If she doesn't then this would set off all
kinds of red flags in my mind if I were you.

    > This makes it even more difficult for me because I really want to know
    > what kind of legal dilemma we are faced with but do not know where to
    > turn.

First you turn to her and tell her, in no uncertain terms, that you love
her and wish to help her but you need to know the truth, all of it, and
you both need to seek the advice of a competent immigration lawyer
because this is serious are effects not only her life but yours. If she
will not cooperate with you then it is telling you directly that she
does not care about what this will mean to your relationship with her
and, by extension, she does not care about you.

    > I can not afford to pay an attorney 1 to 1 time to discuss this.

I understand that money is often tight for many people but a
consultation, just to find out where you stand, is often < $100. If you
cannot afford $100 then how will you be able to sponsor her at all?

    > What makes it more difficult is that my girlfriend becomes very upset
    > when I try to talk about the subject and tries to just ignore this
    > problem as it is very upsetting to her. I want to have more info
    > before I try to re-engage her in the process.

Whenever somebody gets very upset about a serious issue in their life
(that is also a very serious issue in your life as you will definitely
be effected) and wishes to ignore the problem it tells me that this
person is not very adult and not very practical. It also says that they
do not care very much about you as they are directly saying that your
concerns in this matter do not matter to them (when in fact they do very
much). I understand you want to get more info before you re-engage her
however my point is that you should not have to engage her in the first
place and face any negative consequences because these actions YOU are
not guilty of - she is. And you need to get through this. Ignoring it
will NOT make it go away. And YOU need that input, for her to be honest
and open, so that you can make the necessary decisions for YOUR life.
Anybody who ignores this because it's "upsetting" to them while
knowingly causing you pain and anguish because of this does NOT care too
much about you.

    >> Without trying to sound cold hearted, it would bother me that she has
    >> so blatantly ignored the law.
    > I understand your point of view. From my perspective she did not break
    > a moral law just one on the books.

She broke moral laws too. There are many people who wish to have the
opportunity to come to America to work and/or live. Illegals make it
more difficult for others to come her.

    > IMO just because something is a law does not make it morally right or
    > wrong. It does bother me that we now have a dilemma because we have
    > started to build a life together and it presents a legal problem that
    > I do not know how to handle.

As others have said, you need to talk to a lawyer to know for sure.

    > She is a very good person.

So then why did she so blatantly ignore the law?

    > I'm in my mid thirty's and this is the first serious relationship that
    > I have had.

IOW you have no real experience with relationships. I don't necessarily
mean this is a bad way but think about it.

    > She is a very beautiful person,

Beauty has nothing to do with it.

    > someone I've opened up my heart to. I have never found a woman whom I
    > wanted to be this close to in all my life.

I'm sure you love her.

    > She was honest with ME about this and that is what is important to me.

She was NOT honest with you. If she was then you'd know all the details.
The mere fact that you say she gets very upset about it and just wants
to ignore the subject says to me that she is hiding something - perhaps
even more egregious actions. These are not actions of an honest person.
Do not feel honored simply because she has mentioned that she has a
problem. She would have had to at some point anyway because there's no
escaping it.

    > She does not lie to me.

Hiding critical information is a form of deception or lying.

    > Not all laws are morally correct and just because someone does not
    > follow every law does not make them a bad person.

If they know that there is a law and they blatantly ignore it then,
unless they are actively resisting the law in a sense of civil
disobienance, then, to me, that's bad. Also, in any event, they need to
face the consequences of their actions.

    > Some people smoke pot. I don't but some do. I could care less if it's
    > 'illegal' or not. As long as they do so safely (i.e. not when driving
    > or working, etc) I could care less if they are 'breaking the law'
    > because I think the law is wrong.

Understood. If she smoked pot however then she could be banned for life
from being here. Regardless if you think it wrong or right are you
willing to face those consequences?

Here's a little story - when entering the street pedestrians have the
right of way. However if it is clear to you that the car is not going to
stop, I don't know about you, but I personally would not enter the
crosswalk! You may be right - but you'd also be dead! Just because an
action is morally right or wrong in your belief system does not mean
that it is something you wish to do or not do.

    > I am a libertarian

So am I!

    > and believe that people should be able to do what they want as long as
    > they are not infringing on the rights of others.

Violating immigration laws do infringe on the rights of others,
including USCs and future intending immigrants. Your finances actions
effect a lot of people, regardless if she, or you, wish to ignore that fact.

    > I don't want to get into a debate on this and I respect and appreciate
    > your opinion. I just feel that this is a technical problem and not a
    > moral one.

You will find out exactly to what extent it is indeed moral as you go
through the process. In any event your finances actions raise red flags
to me. You may be willing to ignore or forgive them because you're in
love with her and, excuse me, relatively naive about relationships by
your own admission, but IMHO, you'd be wise to give them heed. In any
event good luck.

    > I think she figured that since she had no intentions of staying here
    > for the rest of her life she would just ignore it, make the money that
    > she needed and then return home.

So then she's free to interpret the law in any way that is convenient to
her? Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Her ignorance and apathy to the
law may cause her to face serious consequences. Unfortunately, since
you're in love with her, you get the feel this pain too.

    > If she 'got caught and deported' or whatever, that was seen as a low
    > percentage risk that she was willing
    > to take.

Oh so if the chance of getting caught is low then it's OK to violate
and/or ignore the law. I wonder if you would still apply that principal
to say robbing banks, or taking the fractions of pennies from rounding
from large corporations... I think not.

    > Since she met me and fell in love with me she now has a reason to
    > stay. In retrospect she realizes that not following up with the court
    > process was a big mistake and this causes her much pain. I don't know
    > where to turn for help (I understand that I could plunk down some cash
    > and talk to an attorney but don't have the money right now and am
    > hoping there are other resources I can turn to first).

Again, a consultation is cheap, especially when compared to the money
you're gonna need to spend on her anyway. You could always spend hours
and hours studying the law and hope you don't make a mistake or
misinterpretation.

    > If we stay together and plan to marry I will do this but hope there
    > are some resources and leg work I can do first that are not so expensive.
    >> Good luck.
    >> (BTW: I'm 1/2 Brasilian)
    > Thanks! I have never met such a warm and extremely frienly people as
    > Brasilian's. Being with her, her family, and friends have been some of
    > the most wonderful experiences in my life!

IMHO you are letting your emotions overrule your common sense. WRT the
law you need to get back in touch with your common sense. There will be
time for love latter.
--
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.

Andrew Defaria

DCMark wrote:

    > And the US government is going to require that you hire a competent
    > attorney for this.

Slight correction. The US government will not *require* that you hire an
attorney though it might be prudent for you to do so. The government
*never* requires that you hire an attorney!
--
Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this bull before.