The Phoenix

My fiancé and I will be starting to file for K1 later in the year, but
something a friend said has got us both curious. He emigrated over a
few years back as he had gone in on a tourist visa, got married
(largely unplanned) and filed for AOS etc. Am I right in assuming that
this isn't possible any more and hence the need to file for K1?

The Phoenix

jeffreyhy

Phoenix,

It is possible. It also involves risks.

Do a Google search and you will find many discussions on the subject, some of them quite heated.

Regards, JEff

Folinskyinla

Hi:

This issue is actually discussed fairly often and has acquired a nicknmame -- "the 10 foot pole." As Jeff mentioned -- the discussions of that get quite heated.

You use the word "possible" -- well anything is possible in this scenario from a speedy way of getting togehter to a way of insuring you NEVER get a green card. A frequent poster here likes to quote me on the idea that "love may be hot, but it is no excuse to play with matches."


And although I attribute good faith and innocence to your question -- you have inadvertantly fallen into that nickname.

Good luckl

The Phoenix

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 23:32:14 +0000, Folinskyinla
<member4043@british_expats.com> wrote:

    >Hi:
    >This issue is actually discussed fairly often
    >and has acquired a nicknmame -- "the 10 foot pole." As Jeff mentioned
    >-- the discussions of that get quite heated.

Yeah, I'm beginning to find that out from the searches I've tried so
far.

    >You use the word "possible" -- well anything is possible in this scenario from a speedy
    >way of getting togehter to a way of insuring you NEVER get a green card.
    >A frequent poster here likes to quote me on the idea that "love may be
    >hot, but it is no excuse to play with matches."

As much as we want to be together, neither of us want to take the
chance that something goes wrong and I can't emigrate over to be with
her.

    >And although I attribute good faith and innocence to your question -- you have
    >inadvertantly fallen into that nickname.

Fair comment

    >Good luckl

Thank you

The Phoenix

utopiacowboy

In fact, those of us who go the K1 and K3 route are an incredibly tiny percentage of spousal immigrants. Less than 10%. The only people who go this route are those like me who have no other choice or who want to play it safe. Then there are the other 90%.

Cykotronic

Well, maybe if the K1/K3's could be processed within a reasonable amount of time, then more people would opt for them rather than taking a "risk". Other countries have their heads on straight when it comes to spousal visas. Why do we have to be so far behind?

utopiacowboy

Why? Because we are paranoid idiots who are convinced that everyone on the planet is just dying for the chance to come to America! Get real! Most people could care less about coming here to live. There are much easier ways to ferret out marriage fraud than the absurd process that we have in place which does nothing to deter the fraudulent applications and is a complete hindrance to the legitimate claims. So no wonder everyone does an AOS instead of the K1 or K3.

Folinskyinla

Hi:

Your point is extremely well taken. However, the POV you mention is firmly ensconsed in the Immigration & Nationality Act.

Matthew Udall

OK, such as.....

Folinskyinla

Hey Cowboy:

I don't know about the breakdown of those AOS filing's -- how many of the alien spouses entered with the intent of getting married? Based upon my experience, I would not be surprised if it is not all that many. Most of the case I've handled with marriage adjustments have been where the happy couple met and courted INSIDE the United States.. The alien would be here on an H-1, F-1 or L-1 or just a plain long term overstay.

In the past, there would be marriages outside the US -- GI or traveling business people, and in some cultures, arranged marriages.

utopiacowboy

You may be right because we don't have a breakdown of the numbers. I don't doubt that there are a lot where people meet and court inside the US but out of 200,000 a year, I'd say that there was plenty of room for some of the other kind as well.

utopiacowboy

DISCLAIMER: I can think of plenty of examples but I am not vouching for their constitutionality. Or even their rationality :-)

1. Any American caught in a fraudulent foreign marriage would lose their citizenship and be deported to the country of their fraudulent spouse.

2. Make the American citizen post of bond for say, $100,000 which would be forfeited if the couple divorce within 2 years.

3. Make the American citizen sign over all his/her property to his/her foreign spouse.

4. Apply the same rules that govern seizure of property owned by narcotics trafficers to participants in marriage fraud.

5. Let any American bring in his or her spouse, no questions asked, but if there is a divorce within 5 years, the spouse is deported.

6. Let any American bring in his or her spouse, no questions asked, if they can show that they have lived in their spouse's country for 6 months.

7. Let any American bring in his or her spouse, no questions asked, but they are barred from divorce forever.

8. Let any American bring in one foreign spouse in a lifetime, no questions asked.

9. Let any American bring in their foreign spouse, no questions asked. Change the conditional period to 5 years. If still married at the end of 5 years, give them the green card. Otherwise, deport them. A little variation on #5.

10. Eliminate the current USCIS petition, state department visa application, and POE cross-examination in favor of one "jury trial". You convince a jury of your peers the marriage is genuine and that's it. I want my trial on February 14!

That was fun but I must admit, Matt, that it's harder than it first appears. I thought of some examples that were disturbingly close to the current system! Any other ideas?

Andy Platt

I think that just enforcing the current laws would be good enough. When has
a US citizen ever been fined a huge amount of money for fraud as the laws
allow? If this was done perhaps the message would be sent.

Many of your proposals have no consideration for the length of the
relationship prior to the marriage or have ridiculous monetary requirements
that would make it impossible for many to marry. Additionally they make no
difference between fraudulent marriages and genuine ones that run into
trouble. Finally, as has been mentioned before, proposals that have a fixed
"marriage ends before xyz and you're deported" are a haven for abuse of
aliens.

Andy.

--
I'm not really here, it's just your warped imagination
"utopiacowboy" <member18243@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > DISCLAIMER: I can think of plenty of examples but I am not vouching for
    > their constitutionality. Or even their rationality :-)
    > 1. Any American
    > caught in a fraudulent foreign marriage would lose their citizenship and
    > be deported to the country of their fraudulent spouse.
    > 2. Make the
    > American citizen post of bond for say, $100,000 which would be forfeited
    > if the couple divorce within 2 years.
    > 3. Make the American citizen
    > sign over all his/her property to his/her foreign spouse.
    > 4. Apply the
    > same rules that govern seizure of property owned by narcotics trafficers
    > to participants in marriage fraud.
    > 5. Let any American bring in his or
    > her spouse, no questions asked, but if there is a divorce within 5
    > years, the spouse is deported.
    > 6. Let any American bring in his or her
    > spouse, no questions asked, if they can show that they have lived in
    > their spouse's country for 6 months.
    > 7. Let any American bring in his
    > or her spouse, no questions asked, but they are barred from divorce
    > forever.
    > 8. Let any American bring in one foreign spouse in a lifetime,
    > no questions asked.
    > 9. Let any American bring in their foreign
    > spouse, no questions asked. Change the conditional period to 5 years. If
    > still married at the end of 5 years, give them the green card.
    > Otherwise, deport them. A little variation on #5.
    > 10. Eliminate the
    > current USCIS petition, state department visa application, and POE cross-
    > examination in favor of one "jury trial". You convince a jury of your
    > peers the marriage is genuine and that's it. I want my trial on February
    > 14!
    > That was fun but I must admit, Matt, that it's harder than it first
    > appears. I thought of some examples that were disturbingly close to the
    > current system! Any other ideas?
    > Originally posted by Matthew
    > Udall
    > OK, such as.....
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

jeffreyhy

Cowboy,

Re #1, I would think that the foreign country might want to have something to say about the US sending over a non-citizen of said country?

Re #5-9 "no questions asked" would certainly be welcomed by those foreigners having terroristic tendancies.

Re #10, court dockets tend to be as backlogged as the USCIS service centers

Regards, JEff

Bluegrass Lass

Hey Cowboy,

How many Amer-Amer marriages break up within 5 years? I don't think an Amer-Foreigner marriage will be any less stressful. And hey, if we're going to give the foreign spouse all of hte USC's property, why don't we apply the same concept to 'normal' marriages when either of the spouses cheat on the other, etc?

You inferred other countries use other methods to ferret out fraudulent marriages - I somehow doubt these countries use these methods. Why should the USC be penalized in such ways as this, simply because we had the 'inconvenience' to fall in love with someone born elsewhere?

I completely agree that we need to enforce the fraud laws that are already in place. These funds could go to fund the USCIS system to help pay for some of the fees. Just my 2cents.

Jamie