maths

Hey I was telling an american friend of mine about the fact that I was
a US visa and she suggested I marry her to get the visa. I dont want to
do anything illegal so I figured Id ask here first. At what point is it
visa fraud (ie both of us are consenting adults who want to get
married, just arguably for the wrong reasons). Is it only visa fraud if
we admit we only got married for the visa? I dont understand how they
draw the line between real marriage and convenience ones ( ie the only
way I can think of is with a love tester but they dont exist!!).

How long would we have to stay married for this to take effect. My
american friend currently lives in europe. Would she have to move to
the US to let me get a greencard, or could we apply from europe?

Thanks
J.

nettlebed

Nice try. Now back under the bridge with you: The Three Billy Goats Gruff are around!

careerlady

It's people like you who create problems in the system for those of us who get married for love not a US visa! I'm sorry, what you are doing is ethically and morally wrong, and just messes up an already difficult system for us honest ones even more.

Superho

You fell for a classic troll line.

crg

US CIS has a new rule that you must have intercourse in front of them in order to prove the marriage is legitimate. If you're not convincing enough then they deny the application, and then take turns on you. Feel free to give it a shot.

Also, don't say "marriage of convenience", when you mean "sham marriage".

Babak

I would say the law is one thing, and how it's enforced is an entirely
different matter. According to the law, the two parties to a marriage
must in fact intend to enter into a marriage regardless of the
immigration benefits that it carries. I find that I'm having a tough
time articulating it, but the examples are clear, your friend marrying
you to get you a Green Card is fraud, and it would be whether you pay
her for it or not. However it is generally deemed acceptable for 2
people to get married sooner than they would otherwise, to accomodate
their visa situation.

As for how it's enforced, there are requirements of documenting the
relationship (photos, phone calls, etc.) and the responsibility falls
on you to convince the immigration officer that your marriage is not a
sham. If deemed legitimate, the immigrant will be subject to a 2 year
condition on his/her Green Card, after which a petition must be filed
to show that the marriage still stands and make the GC permanent. Some
couples are randomly picked and interviewed or otherwise inspected, and
some that are suspected of wrongdoing are scrutinized more.

She would need to establish "domicile" in the US, typically by moving
there but I believe showing clear intent and preparation to move can
also satisfy this requirement.

Ingo Pakleppa

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Quick answer: leave your fingers off this. Or, better yet, fall in love
with her and marry her for the right reason (hey, a friend willing to do
this for you may be worth keeping as a life mate anyway!) You'd get a
perfectly legal Green Card in the bargain.

The marriage itself would be perfectly legal. So once your plans fall
apart and you end up deported and banned from the US, you would still be
married and have to get divorced before you would be free again.

Using it to apply for a Green Card would not be legal!

I would recommend that you rent the movie "Green Card" (I think it came
out in the late 1980s) While the movie is fiction, and not 100% accurate
(in some ways, quite inaccurate), it gives you a good general idea of
what would happen and how USCIS would find out.

Marriages of convenience for immigration purposes are quite common, some
estimates say more than half of all applicants for a marriage-based visa
are fraudulent. While I wouldn't venture a guess, most of them are found
out.

Also keep in mind that even if you seem to have gotten away with it and
got your Green Card and eventually citizenship, that can all be revoked
if it *ever* comes out, even decades later. You would be wise not to run
for public office, or get yourself into any position where somebody
might like to blackmail you...

That said, there are quite a few individual things how USCIS finds out
about marriages of convenience. You will have to show that you have a
shared bank account and both of your paychecks get deposited there, you
live together, both of your names are on the lease or mortgage and
utility bills, and so on, and so on. If you have separate finances, you
would have to have a very good explanation. If you don't actually live
together, you'd be out of luck.

Also, your American friend would first have to make plans to move back
to the US (the technical term is, she must be "domiciled" in the US.
That means, either reside there, or plan to reside there). You can apply
from Europe as long as she shows that she made bona fide plans to
return, such as starting to looking for a job or a house. You would
probably get a conditional Green Card good for two years. Two years
after you arrive in the USA, both of you would then together have to
apply to remove the condition, and show that you are still married and
still living together (or you would have to report her to the police for
spousal abuse and cause all kinds of legal hassles for both of you. And
you'd be committing serious fraud in this case).

So you should expect to live together for at least five years. This rule
is actually the single biggest deterrent to such a marriage of
convenience - that's why it was introduced.

[email protected] wrote:
    | Hey I was telling an american friend of mine about the fact that I was
    | a US visa and she suggested I marry her to get the visa. I dont want to
    | do anything illegal so I figured Id ask here first. At what point is it
    | visa fraud (ie both of us are consenting adults who want to get
    | married, just arguably for the wrong reasons). Is it only visa fraud if
    | we admit we only got married for the visa? I dont understand how they
    | draw the line between real marriage and convenience ones ( ie the only
    | way I can think of is with a love tester but they dont exist!!).
    |
    | How long would we have to stay married for this to take effect. My
    | american friend currently lives in europe. Would she have to move to
    | the US to let me get a greencard, or could we apply from europe?
    |
    | Thanks
    | J.
    |


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Sam Gordon

Hm, let's see ...

Playing the DV lottery and completing the processing ... 1,000 $
Obtaining an investor visa for the United States ... 1,000,000 $
Getting married without a prenuptial agreement and giving the spouse a tool
to force your submission at any future divorce proceeding ...

PRICELESS

LOL

Babak

haha, good one Sam. Interesting that in such marriages in Canada, the
upper hand is given to the immigrant. As soon as sponsored, the
immigrant applicant is entitled to a non-conditional PR status, and the
breakup of the marriage will not reverse that. Additionally, the PR
reserves the right to apply for welfare, which will be paid and
reimbursed by the Canadian spouse (even if they're divorced). See who
needs the prenup in this situation?

S P Arif Sahari Wibowo

Babak wrote:
    > Interesting that in such marriages in Canada, the
    > upper hand is given to the immigrant. As soon as sponsored, the
    > immigrant applicant is entitled to a non-conditional PR status,

That is not true. The PR status is not given as soon as sponsored, but
after a process that is some cases quite lengthy. Moreover, when the
application is in-Canada, the applicant won't entitled to any work
permit (and in some provinces won't entitled to health care nor any
other benefits) until the application is approved. In some cases where
the approval is delayed, the applicant can wait years in Canada, cannot
do anything and practically cannot go out from Canada.

    > and the breakup of the marriage will not reverse that.

That is true.

    > Additionally, the
    > PR reserves the right to apply for welfare, which will be paid and
    > reimbursed by the Canadian spouse (even if they're divorced).

I think that is the case in US as well. Moreover, AFAIK in US the
responsibility of the sponsor is not strictly limited, and in some case
can extend forever (until death).

--
Stephan Paul Arif Sahari Wibowo
_____ _____ _____ _____
/____ /____/ /____/ /____
_____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/

Disclaimer: I am an amateur observer in this matter, not
professional nor legal counsel in the matter,
my advices - if any - should be treated as such.

Babak

I used the term "sponsor" to refer to obtaining PR status for someone
by sponsorship, not in its technical definition as step 1 of the
multi-step process. The same is of course true in the US, there is
always a processing time involved.

The significance is the absence of the 2 year conditional status to
prevent marriages of convenience, and that is what I was pointing out.

Again, in the US, the sponsoring spouse applies to remove the
conditional status and therefore at least some time has passed to
ensure the legitimacy of the marraige. After removing the condition,
the sponsor may indeed continue to be responsible as per the following:

"A sponsor's obligation continues until the sponsored immigrant becomes
a U.S. citizen, can be credited with 40 qualifying quarters of work,
departs the United States pennanently, or dies."

Ingo Pakleppa

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Babak wrote:
    | "A sponsor's obligation continues until the sponsored immigrant becomes
    | a U.S. citizen, can be credited with 40 qualifying quarters of work,
    | departs the United States pennanently, or dies."
    |

Or it also ends after ten years, I believe (which would be kind of odd,
because 40 quarters translates to ten years).


- --
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I
encourage everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than
relying on usenet newsgroups.

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under
construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for Spam protection.
See my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my Web site
http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.
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BabeLincoln

HAHAHA!

Lord, dont say that! my US hubby and I have our interview next week! We'd better include the box of *Trojans* in our suitcase of things, then!!!!

Lesley1020

LMAO!

Rete

Well not a great big deal. Many of today's older and younger generation are keen on the multi-partners level of society and they should have no qualms about bearing it all for money since they do it groupwise for pleasure.