Marriage on B-2 and wait for K-3?
Aug 26th 2003, 1:08 am
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Marriage on B-2 and wait for K-3?
I am a U.S. citizen and am engaged to a Colombian national. We are
both attorneys in our respective countries -- although neither of us
practice or are familiar with immigration law. Thus, like so many
other folks, I naively assumed she and I would be able to get married
here in the States on the B-2 visa she has used to visit me, and then
subsequently apply for an AOS. We've set a date for the end of
November and I've made various reservations (church, banquet hall,
honeymoon, all refundable, happily).
After being rudely awakened to the fact that one cannot enter the U.S.
on a B-2 visa with the intention of marrying (or, to be more precise,
one cannot misrepresent one's intentions to the BCIS officer at the
POE), I find myself with two choices: (1) carry on with our plans for
a November wedding, have her return home to Colombia after the
honeymoon, and then file a I-130 and await processing of a K-3 visa;
or (2) immediately file a I-129F, await processing of a K-1 visa, and
postpone the wedding date to some indefinite time next year.
Information on the U.S. Embassy in Colombia's website states: "It is
legal for Colombians to apply for tourist visas if they have the
intention of marrying in the United States and then returning to
Colombia to live or for the processing of the immigrant visa." See
http://usembassy.state.gov/colombia/wwwsmare.shtml. This obviously
indicates that option number 1 is viable. However, I just called the
BCIS National Service Center, and was told that whether she would be
allowed to enter on her B-2 visa before the wedding was entirely up to
the (what I understand to be non-appealable) discretion of the BCIS
officer at the POE.
I don't want to go making all of these plans for a November wedding
and see them go down the drain thanks to the whim of a BCIS officer at
the POE. What she and I intend to do is clearly legal. The question
for the BCIS officer is, as I understand it, how she intends to use
her B-2 visa. She intends to enter the country for a short while and
then return to Colombia; whether she gets married or not during her
stay should be irrelevant in light of that ultimate intention not to
remain.
Would it be better to go the K-1 route because the first option of
marrying on the B-2 visa and returning to Colombia to await a K-3
truly is too risky because of potential problems at the POE? If she
truly does intend to return to Colombia after the wedding, on what
grounds could she be denied entry at the POE (particularly since she
has been here three times already this year, and has subsequently
returned to Colombia each time)?
Thanks for any and all advice.
both attorneys in our respective countries -- although neither of us
practice or are familiar with immigration law. Thus, like so many
other folks, I naively assumed she and I would be able to get married
here in the States on the B-2 visa she has used to visit me, and then
subsequently apply for an AOS. We've set a date for the end of
November and I've made various reservations (church, banquet hall,
honeymoon, all refundable, happily).
After being rudely awakened to the fact that one cannot enter the U.S.
on a B-2 visa with the intention of marrying (or, to be more precise,
one cannot misrepresent one's intentions to the BCIS officer at the
POE), I find myself with two choices: (1) carry on with our plans for
a November wedding, have her return home to Colombia after the
honeymoon, and then file a I-130 and await processing of a K-3 visa;
or (2) immediately file a I-129F, await processing of a K-1 visa, and
postpone the wedding date to some indefinite time next year.
Information on the U.S. Embassy in Colombia's website states: "It is
legal for Colombians to apply for tourist visas if they have the
intention of marrying in the United States and then returning to
Colombia to live or for the processing of the immigrant visa." See
http://usembassy.state.gov/colombia/wwwsmare.shtml. This obviously
indicates that option number 1 is viable. However, I just called the
BCIS National Service Center, and was told that whether she would be
allowed to enter on her B-2 visa before the wedding was entirely up to
the (what I understand to be non-appealable) discretion of the BCIS
officer at the POE.
I don't want to go making all of these plans for a November wedding
and see them go down the drain thanks to the whim of a BCIS officer at
the POE. What she and I intend to do is clearly legal. The question
for the BCIS officer is, as I understand it, how she intends to use
her B-2 visa. She intends to enter the country for a short while and
then return to Colombia; whether she gets married or not during her
stay should be irrelevant in light of that ultimate intention not to
remain.
Would it be better to go the K-1 route because the first option of
marrying on the B-2 visa and returning to Colombia to await a K-3
truly is too risky because of potential problems at the POE? If she
truly does intend to return to Colombia after the wedding, on what
grounds could she be denied entry at the POE (particularly since she
has been here three times already this year, and has subsequently
returned to Colombia each time)?
Thanks for any and all advice.
Aug 26th 2003, 12:45 pm
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Marriage on B-2 and wait for K-3?
[email protected] (Eduardo Suave) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
> After being rudely awakened to the fact that one cannot enter the U.S.
> on a B-2 visa with the intention of marrying (or, to be more precise,
> one cannot misrepresent one's intentions to the BCIS officer at the
> POE)
That would be immigration fraud, to misrepresent one's intentions to
the BCIS person in the POE.
> Information on the U.S. Embassy in Colombia's website states: "It is
> legal for Colombians to apply for tourist visas if they have the
> intention of marrying in the United States and then returning to
> Colombia to live or for the processing of the immigrant visa." See
> http://usembassy.state.gov/colombia/wwwsmare.shtml. This obviously
> indicates that option number 1 is viable.
That's in Black & White on the Embassy web site. She would need to
return to Colombia and complete the visa application process, while
living here in Colombia, after your wedding, IMHO.
> However, I just called the
> BCIS National Service Center, and was told that whether she would be
> allowed to enter on her B-2 visa before the wedding was entirely up to
> the (what I understand to be non-appealable) discretion of the BCIS
> officer at the POE.
>
If you will read further on the newly updated web site of the U.S.
Embassy in Bogotá, they make it very clear that a visa is *NOT* a
guarantee of entry into the U.S.A. The *FINAL* decision is always
made by the BCIS person in the POE and that is not something one can
debate with them. It is their decision to make.
> I don't want to go making all of these plans for a November wedding
> and see them go down the drain thanks to the whim of a BCIS officer at
> the POE.
Their decision is not made by whim. Their decision is made by U.S.
law. They must assume that *everyone* entering the USA on a
non-immigrant visa wants to remain in the USA, permanently. That's
what U.S. law requires them to do.
> Would it be better to go the K-1 route because the first option of
> marrying on the B-2 visa and returning to Colombia to await a K-3
> truly is too risky because of potential problems at the POE? If she
> truly does intend to return to Colombia after the wedding, on what
> grounds could she be denied entry at the POE (particularly since she
> has been here three times already this year, and has subsequently
> returned to Colombia each time)?
>
IMHO (and I'm *NOT* one of the "experts", like Ingo on this newsgroup)
she might be denied entry and sent back on a return flight to
Colombia, the same day she arrives in the POE. If that were to happen,
your wedding plans would go up in smoke.
The more conservative route for you to take is to get her a Fiancee
Visa or get married down here and then apply for a Spouse visa. It may
work out, if you take a more risky path, but, it might not.
BTW, I am a U.S. Citizen and my wife is a Colombian citizen. We
contemplated getting married while on a trip in the USA, because it is
so much easier to get married there, but, we had no intention of
living in the USA, so we did not face the problems you are facing. We
ended up getting married here in Colombia, which requires more
paperwork, if the man is not a Colombian citizen.
Good luck!
Lanny in Cali, Colombia
> After being rudely awakened to the fact that one cannot enter the U.S.
> on a B-2 visa with the intention of marrying (or, to be more precise,
> one cannot misrepresent one's intentions to the BCIS officer at the
> POE)
That would be immigration fraud, to misrepresent one's intentions to
the BCIS person in the POE.
> Information on the U.S. Embassy in Colombia's website states: "It is
> legal for Colombians to apply for tourist visas if they have the
> intention of marrying in the United States and then returning to
> Colombia to live or for the processing of the immigrant visa." See
> http://usembassy.state.gov/colombia/wwwsmare.shtml. This obviously
> indicates that option number 1 is viable.
That's in Black & White on the Embassy web site. She would need to
return to Colombia and complete the visa application process, while
living here in Colombia, after your wedding, IMHO.
> However, I just called the
> BCIS National Service Center, and was told that whether she would be
> allowed to enter on her B-2 visa before the wedding was entirely up to
> the (what I understand to be non-appealable) discretion of the BCIS
> officer at the POE.
>
If you will read further on the newly updated web site of the U.S.
Embassy in Bogotá, they make it very clear that a visa is *NOT* a
guarantee of entry into the U.S.A. The *FINAL* decision is always
made by the BCIS person in the POE and that is not something one can
debate with them. It is their decision to make.
> I don't want to go making all of these plans for a November wedding
> and see them go down the drain thanks to the whim of a BCIS officer at
> the POE.
Their decision is not made by whim. Their decision is made by U.S.
law. They must assume that *everyone* entering the USA on a
non-immigrant visa wants to remain in the USA, permanently. That's
what U.S. law requires them to do.
> Would it be better to go the K-1 route because the first option of
> marrying on the B-2 visa and returning to Colombia to await a K-3
> truly is too risky because of potential problems at the POE? If she
> truly does intend to return to Colombia after the wedding, on what
> grounds could she be denied entry at the POE (particularly since she
> has been here three times already this year, and has subsequently
> returned to Colombia each time)?
>
IMHO (and I'm *NOT* one of the "experts", like Ingo on this newsgroup)
she might be denied entry and sent back on a return flight to
Colombia, the same day she arrives in the POE. If that were to happen,
your wedding plans would go up in smoke.
The more conservative route for you to take is to get her a Fiancee
Visa or get married down here and then apply for a Spouse visa. It may
work out, if you take a more risky path, but, it might not.
BTW, I am a U.S. Citizen and my wife is a Colombian citizen. We
contemplated getting married while on a trip in the USA, because it is
so much easier to get married there, but, we had no intention of
living in the USA, so we did not face the problems you are facing. We
ended up getting married here in Colombia, which requires more
paperwork, if the man is not a Colombian citizen.
Good luck!
Lanny in Cali, Colombia
Aug 26th 2003, 3:55 pm
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Marriage on B-2 and wait for K-3?
It's interesting how this one is thought of in the eyes of BCIS.
My immigration lawyer has told me that I am able to marry on a B2 and can
remain after the wedding. She only stated that it's fraud if I flew in under
the B2 for the sole purpose of getting married.
In my situation, I was asked to stay with a friend but our feelings have
grown to the point where we want to get married and my lawyer says that this
can be done.
It is a shady area though, so I would advise talking with a lawyer about it.
--
------------------------------------------------
"Actually, the biggest deterrent to scientific progress is a refusal of some
people, including scientists, to believe that things that seem amazing can
really happen" - George S Trimble, Director of NASA Manned Spacecraft
Center.
"Lanny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Eduardo Suave) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]. com>...
> > After being rudely awakened to the fact that one cannot enter the U.S.
> > on a B-2 visa with the intention of marrying (or, to be more precise,
> > one cannot misrepresent one's intentions to the BCIS officer at the
> > POE)
> That would be immigration fraud, to misrepresent one's intentions to
> the BCIS person in the POE.
> > Information on the U.S. Embassy in Colombia's website states: "It is
> > legal for Colombians to apply for tourist visas if they have the
> > intention of marrying in the United States and then returning to
> > Colombia to live or for the processing of the immigrant visa." See
> > http://usembassy.state.gov/colombia/wwwsmare.shtml. This obviously
> > indicates that option number 1 is viable.
> That's in Black & White on the Embassy web site. She would need to
> return to Colombia and complete the visa application process, while
> living here in Colombia, after your wedding, IMHO.
> > However, I just called the
> > BCIS National Service Center, and was told that whether she would be
> > allowed to enter on her B-2 visa before the wedding was entirely up to
> > the (what I understand to be non-appealable) discretion of the BCIS
> > officer at the POE.
> >
> If you will read further on the newly updated web site of the U.S.
> Embassy in Bogotá, they make it very clear that a visa is *NOT* a
> guarantee of entry into the U.S.A. The *FINAL* decision is always
> made by the BCIS person in the POE and that is not something one can
> debate with them. It is their decision to make.
> > I don't want to go making all of these plans for a November wedding
> > and see them go down the drain thanks to the whim of a BCIS officer at
> > the POE.
> Their decision is not made by whim. Their decision is made by U.S.
> law. They must assume that *everyone* entering the USA on a
> non-immigrant visa wants to remain in the USA, permanently. That's
> what U.S. law requires them to do.
> > Would it be better to go the K-1 route because the first option of
> > marrying on the B-2 visa and returning to Colombia to await a K-3
> > truly is too risky because of potential problems at the POE? If she
> > truly does intend to return to Colombia after the wedding, on what
> > grounds could she be denied entry at the POE (particularly since she
> > has been here three times already this year, and has subsequently
> > returned to Colombia each time)?
> >
> IMHO (and I'm *NOT* one of the "experts", like Ingo on this newsgroup)
> she might be denied entry and sent back on a return flight to
> Colombia, the same day she arrives in the POE. If that were to happen,
> your wedding plans would go up in smoke.
> The more conservative route for you to take is to get her a Fiancee
> Visa or get married down here and then apply for a Spouse visa. It may
> work out, if you take a more risky path, but, it might not.
> BTW, I am a U.S. Citizen and my wife is a Colombian citizen. We
> contemplated getting married while on a trip in the USA, because it is
> so much easier to get married there, but, we had no intention of
> living in the USA, so we did not face the problems you are facing. We
> ended up getting married here in Colombia, which requires more
> paperwork, if the man is not a Colombian citizen.
> Good luck!
> Lanny in Cali, Colombia
My immigration lawyer has told me that I am able to marry on a B2 and can
remain after the wedding. She only stated that it's fraud if I flew in under
the B2 for the sole purpose of getting married.
In my situation, I was asked to stay with a friend but our feelings have
grown to the point where we want to get married and my lawyer says that this
can be done.
It is a shady area though, so I would advise talking with a lawyer about it.
--
------------------------------------------------
"Actually, the biggest deterrent to scientific progress is a refusal of some
people, including scientists, to believe that things that seem amazing can
really happen" - George S Trimble, Director of NASA Manned Spacecraft
Center.
"Lanny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Eduardo Suave) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]. com>...
> > After being rudely awakened to the fact that one cannot enter the U.S.
> > on a B-2 visa with the intention of marrying (or, to be more precise,
> > one cannot misrepresent one's intentions to the BCIS officer at the
> > POE)
> That would be immigration fraud, to misrepresent one's intentions to
> the BCIS person in the POE.
> > Information on the U.S. Embassy in Colombia's website states: "It is
> > legal for Colombians to apply for tourist visas if they have the
> > intention of marrying in the United States and then returning to
> > Colombia to live or for the processing of the immigrant visa." See
> > http://usembassy.state.gov/colombia/wwwsmare.shtml. This obviously
> > indicates that option number 1 is viable.
> That's in Black & White on the Embassy web site. She would need to
> return to Colombia and complete the visa application process, while
> living here in Colombia, after your wedding, IMHO.
> > However, I just called the
> > BCIS National Service Center, and was told that whether she would be
> > allowed to enter on her B-2 visa before the wedding was entirely up to
> > the (what I understand to be non-appealable) discretion of the BCIS
> > officer at the POE.
> >
> If you will read further on the newly updated web site of the U.S.
> Embassy in Bogotá, they make it very clear that a visa is *NOT* a
> guarantee of entry into the U.S.A. The *FINAL* decision is always
> made by the BCIS person in the POE and that is not something one can
> debate with them. It is their decision to make.
> > I don't want to go making all of these plans for a November wedding
> > and see them go down the drain thanks to the whim of a BCIS officer at
> > the POE.
> Their decision is not made by whim. Their decision is made by U.S.
> law. They must assume that *everyone* entering the USA on a
> non-immigrant visa wants to remain in the USA, permanently. That's
> what U.S. law requires them to do.
> > Would it be better to go the K-1 route because the first option of
> > marrying on the B-2 visa and returning to Colombia to await a K-3
> > truly is too risky because of potential problems at the POE? If she
> > truly does intend to return to Colombia after the wedding, on what
> > grounds could she be denied entry at the POE (particularly since she
> > has been here three times already this year, and has subsequently
> > returned to Colombia each time)?
> >
> IMHO (and I'm *NOT* one of the "experts", like Ingo on this newsgroup)
> she might be denied entry and sent back on a return flight to
> Colombia, the same day she arrives in the POE. If that were to happen,
> your wedding plans would go up in smoke.
> The more conservative route for you to take is to get her a Fiancee
> Visa or get married down here and then apply for a Spouse visa. It may
> work out, if you take a more risky path, but, it might not.
> BTW, I am a U.S. Citizen and my wife is a Colombian citizen. We
> contemplated getting married while on a trip in the USA, because it is
> so much easier to get married there, but, we had no intention of
> living in the USA, so we did not face the problems you are facing. We
> ended up getting married here in Colombia, which requires more
> paperwork, if the man is not a Colombian citizen.
> Good luck!
> Lanny in Cali, Colombia
Aug 26th 2003, 4:56 pm
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Marriage on B-2 and wait for K-3?
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 06:08:52 -0700, Eduardo Suave wrote:
> I am a U.S. citizen and am engaged to a Colombian national. We are
> both attorneys in our respective countries -- although neither of us
> practice or are familiar with immigration law. Thus, like so many
> other folks, I naively assumed she and I would be able to get married
> here in the States on the B-2 visa she has used to visit me, and then
> subsequently apply for an AOS. We've set a date for the end of
> November and I've made various reservations (church, banquet hall,
> honeymoon, all refundable, happily).
>
> After being rudely awakened to the fact that one cannot enter the U.S.
> on a B-2 visa with the intention of marrying (or, to be more precise,
> one cannot misrepresent one's intentions to the BCIS officer at the
> POE), I find myself with two choices: (1) carry on with our plans for
> a November wedding, have her return home to Colombia after the
> honeymoon, and then file a I-130 and await processing of a K-3 visa;
> or (2) immediately file a I-129F, await processing of a K-1 visa, and
> postpone the wedding date to some indefinite time next year.
Or option (3): proceed with the plans as you had originally considered.
You recognized the risk, although in the end many people seem to get away
with it. There actually was a precent case in the 1970 that said that if
the only factor against the applicant is that he failed to mention the
intent to get married and stay, then in this scenario the government is
required to forgive him and approve the AOS. Of course, the officer can
still deny admission when she first enters the USA - but to do that, he'd
first have to know about the wedding. Of course, make sure that she does
not outright lie about her plans (that would be more serious and
constitute immigration fraud), but she can kind of downplay her actual
plans.
It may also be a good idea for her to travel lightly and mail most of her
clothes ahead, especially any wedding dresses and the like. BCIS does
inspect baggage and use that as evidence.
> Information on the U.S. Embassy in Colombia's website states: "It is
> legal for Colombians to apply for tourist visas if they have the
> intention of marrying in the United States and then returning to
> Colombia to live or for the processing of the immigrant visa." See
> http://usembassy.state.gov/colombia/wwwsmare.shtml. This obviously
> indicates that option number 1 is viable. However, I just called the
> BCIS National Service Center, and was told that whether she would be
> allowed to enter on her B-2 visa before the wedding was entirely up to
> the (what I understand to be non-appealable) discretion of the BCIS
> officer at the POE.
It seems you already got excellent information. It is almost surprising
because more often than not, any legal advice coming from BCIS tends to be
wrong; it is usually low-level clerks with little legal training who
answer the phones. But in this case, there is little to add to the
information you have.
> I don't want to go making all of these plans for a November wedding
> and see them go down the drain thanks to the whim of a BCIS officer at
> the POE. What she and I intend to do is clearly legal. The question
> for the BCIS officer is, as I understand it, how she intends to use
> her B-2 visa. She intends to enter the country for a short while and
> then return to Colombia; whether she gets married or not during her
> stay should be irrelevant in light of that ultimate intention not to
> remain.
Well, the factual situation is one thing. Quite a different one is how to
convince the officer. As an attorney, you should know this. In the case of
immigration law, you are guilty until proven innocent. Especially in light
of the precent that I mentioned above, BCIS officers will probably take
quite a strict line as soon as they hear the word "marriage" or even just
"fiancee" or "boyfriend".
> Would it be better to go the K-1 route because the first option of
> marrying on the B-2 visa and returning to Colombia to await a K-3
> truly is too risky because of potential problems at the POE? If she
> truly does intend to return to Colombia after the wedding, on what
> grounds could she be denied entry at the POE (particularly since she
> has been here three times already this year, and has subsequently
> returned to Colombia each time)?
>
> Thanks for any and all advice.
--
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.
Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
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new Web site http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.
> I am a U.S. citizen and am engaged to a Colombian national. We are
> both attorneys in our respective countries -- although neither of us
> practice or are familiar with immigration law. Thus, like so many
> other folks, I naively assumed she and I would be able to get married
> here in the States on the B-2 visa she has used to visit me, and then
> subsequently apply for an AOS. We've set a date for the end of
> November and I've made various reservations (church, banquet hall,
> honeymoon, all refundable, happily).
>
> After being rudely awakened to the fact that one cannot enter the U.S.
> on a B-2 visa with the intention of marrying (or, to be more precise,
> one cannot misrepresent one's intentions to the BCIS officer at the
> POE), I find myself with two choices: (1) carry on with our plans for
> a November wedding, have her return home to Colombia after the
> honeymoon, and then file a I-130 and await processing of a K-3 visa;
> or (2) immediately file a I-129F, await processing of a K-1 visa, and
> postpone the wedding date to some indefinite time next year.
Or option (3): proceed with the plans as you had originally considered.
You recognized the risk, although in the end many people seem to get away
with it. There actually was a precent case in the 1970 that said that if
the only factor against the applicant is that he failed to mention the
intent to get married and stay, then in this scenario the government is
required to forgive him and approve the AOS. Of course, the officer can
still deny admission when she first enters the USA - but to do that, he'd
first have to know about the wedding. Of course, make sure that she does
not outright lie about her plans (that would be more serious and
constitute immigration fraud), but she can kind of downplay her actual
plans.
It may also be a good idea for her to travel lightly and mail most of her
clothes ahead, especially any wedding dresses and the like. BCIS does
inspect baggage and use that as evidence.
> Information on the U.S. Embassy in Colombia's website states: "It is
> legal for Colombians to apply for tourist visas if they have the
> intention of marrying in the United States and then returning to
> Colombia to live or for the processing of the immigrant visa." See
> http://usembassy.state.gov/colombia/wwwsmare.shtml. This obviously
> indicates that option number 1 is viable. However, I just called the
> BCIS National Service Center, and was told that whether she would be
> allowed to enter on her B-2 visa before the wedding was entirely up to
> the (what I understand to be non-appealable) discretion of the BCIS
> officer at the POE.
It seems you already got excellent information. It is almost surprising
because more often than not, any legal advice coming from BCIS tends to be
wrong; it is usually low-level clerks with little legal training who
answer the phones. But in this case, there is little to add to the
information you have.
> I don't want to go making all of these plans for a November wedding
> and see them go down the drain thanks to the whim of a BCIS officer at
> the POE. What she and I intend to do is clearly legal. The question
> for the BCIS officer is, as I understand it, how she intends to use
> her B-2 visa. She intends to enter the country for a short while and
> then return to Colombia; whether she gets married or not during her
> stay should be irrelevant in light of that ultimate intention not to
> remain.
Well, the factual situation is one thing. Quite a different one is how to
convince the officer. As an attorney, you should know this. In the case of
immigration law, you are guilty until proven innocent. Especially in light
of the precent that I mentioned above, BCIS officers will probably take
quite a strict line as soon as they hear the word "marriage" or even just
"fiancee" or "boyfriend".
> Would it be better to go the K-1 route because the first option of
> marrying on the B-2 visa and returning to Colombia to await a K-3
> truly is too risky because of potential problems at the POE? If she
> truly does intend to return to Colombia after the wedding, on what
> grounds could she be denied entry at the POE (particularly since she
> has been here three times already this year, and has subsequently
> returned to Colombia each time)?
>
> Thanks for any and all advice.
--
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.
Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml
Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)
My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.
Now with new photos! Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my
new Web site http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.
Aug 26th 2003, 4:57 pm
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Marriage on B-2 and wait for K-3?
I completely agree with your lawyer. Your case is actually clear-cut
legal, not even shady. The only question could be about what you can prove
- and even that is nearly moot thanks to the precent case I mentioned in
another post.
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:55:23 -0400, Frodo Baggins wrote:
> It's interesting how this one is thought of in the eyes of BCIS.
>
> My immigration lawyer has told me that I am able to marry on a B2 and
> can remain after the wedding. She only stated that it's fraud if I flew
> in under the B2 for the sole purpose of getting married.
>
> In my situation, I was asked to stay with a friend but our feelings have
> grown to the point where we want to get married and my lawyer says that
> this can be done.
>
> It is a shady area though, so I would advise talking with a lawyer about
> it.
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> "Actually, the biggest deterrent to scientific progress is a refusal of
> some people, including scientists, to believe that things that seem
> amazing can really happen" - George S Trimble, Director of NASA Manned
> Spacecraft Center.
> "Lanny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> [email protected] (Eduardo Suave) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]. com>...
>> > After being rudely awakened to the fact that one cannot enter the
>> > U.S. on a B-2 visa with the intention of marrying (or, to be more
>> > precise, one cannot misrepresent one's intentions to the BCIS officer
>> > at the POE)
>> That would be immigration fraud, to misrepresent one's intentions to
>> the BCIS person in the POE.
>> > Information on the U.S. Embassy in Colombia's website states: "It is
>> > legal for Colombians to apply for tourist visas if they have the
>> > intention of marrying in the United States and then returning to
>> > Colombia to live or for the processing of the immigrant visa." See
>> > http://usembassy.state.gov/colombia/wwwsmare.shtml. This obviously
>> > indicates that option number 1 is viable.
>> That's in Black & White on the Embassy web site. She would need to
>> return to Colombia and complete the visa application process, while
>> living here in Colombia, after your wedding, IMHO.
>> > However, I just called the
>> > BCIS National Service Center, and was told that whether she would be
>> > allowed to enter on her B-2 visa before the wedding was entirely up
>> > to the (what I understand to be non-appealable) discretion of the
>> > BCIS officer at the POE.
>> >
>> If you will read further on the newly updated web site of the U.S.
>> Embassy in Bogotá, they make it very clear that a visa is *NOT* a
>> guarantee of entry into the U.S.A. The *FINAL* decision is always made
>> by the BCIS person in the POE and that is not something one can debate
>> with them. It is their decision to make.
>> > I don't want to go making all of these plans for a November wedding
>> > and see them go down the drain thanks to the whim of a BCIS officer
>> > at the POE.
>> Their decision is not made by whim. Their decision is made by U.S. law.
>> They must assume that *everyone* entering the USA on a non-immigrant
>> visa wants to remain in the USA, permanently. That's what U.S. law
>> requires them to do.
>> > Would it be better to go the K-1 route because the first option of
>> > marrying on the B-2 visa and returning to Colombia to await a K-3
>> > truly is too risky because of potential problems at the POE? If she
>> > truly does intend to return to Colombia after the wedding, on what
>> > grounds could she be denied entry at the POE (particularly since she
>> > has been here three times already this year, and has subsequently
>> > returned to Colombia each time)?
>> >
>> IMHO (and I'm *NOT* one of the "experts", like Ingo on this newsgroup)
>> she might be denied entry and sent back on a return flight to Colombia,
>> the same day she arrives in the POE. If that were to happen, your
>> wedding plans would go up in smoke.
>> The more conservative route for you to take is to get her a Fiancee
>> Visa or get married down here and then apply for a Spouse visa. It may
>> work out, if you take a more risky path, but, it might not.
>> BTW, I am a U.S. Citizen and my wife is a Colombian citizen. We
>> contemplated getting married while on a trip in the USA, because it is
>> so much easier to get married there, but, we had no intention of living
>> in the USA, so we did not face the problems you are facing. We ended up
>> getting married here in Colombia, which requires more paperwork, if the
>> man is not a Colombian citizen.
>> Good luck!
>> Lanny in Cali, Colombia
--
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.
Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml
Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)
My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.
Now with new photos! Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my
new Web site http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.
legal, not even shady. The only question could be about what you can prove
- and even that is nearly moot thanks to the precent case I mentioned in
another post.
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:55:23 -0400, Frodo Baggins wrote:
> It's interesting how this one is thought of in the eyes of BCIS.
>
> My immigration lawyer has told me that I am able to marry on a B2 and
> can remain after the wedding. She only stated that it's fraud if I flew
> in under the B2 for the sole purpose of getting married.
>
> In my situation, I was asked to stay with a friend but our feelings have
> grown to the point where we want to get married and my lawyer says that
> this can be done.
>
> It is a shady area though, so I would advise talking with a lawyer about
> it.
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> "Actually, the biggest deterrent to scientific progress is a refusal of
> some people, including scientists, to believe that things that seem
> amazing can really happen" - George S Trimble, Director of NASA Manned
> Spacecraft Center.
> "Lanny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> [email protected] (Eduardo Suave) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]. com>...
>> > After being rudely awakened to the fact that one cannot enter the
>> > U.S. on a B-2 visa with the intention of marrying (or, to be more
>> > precise, one cannot misrepresent one's intentions to the BCIS officer
>> > at the POE)
>> That would be immigration fraud, to misrepresent one's intentions to
>> the BCIS person in the POE.
>> > Information on the U.S. Embassy in Colombia's website states: "It is
>> > legal for Colombians to apply for tourist visas if they have the
>> > intention of marrying in the United States and then returning to
>> > Colombia to live or for the processing of the immigrant visa." See
>> > http://usembassy.state.gov/colombia/wwwsmare.shtml. This obviously
>> > indicates that option number 1 is viable.
>> That's in Black & White on the Embassy web site. She would need to
>> return to Colombia and complete the visa application process, while
>> living here in Colombia, after your wedding, IMHO.
>> > However, I just called the
>> > BCIS National Service Center, and was told that whether she would be
>> > allowed to enter on her B-2 visa before the wedding was entirely up
>> > to the (what I understand to be non-appealable) discretion of the
>> > BCIS officer at the POE.
>> >
>> If you will read further on the newly updated web site of the U.S.
>> Embassy in Bogotá, they make it very clear that a visa is *NOT* a
>> guarantee of entry into the U.S.A. The *FINAL* decision is always made
>> by the BCIS person in the POE and that is not something one can debate
>> with them. It is their decision to make.
>> > I don't want to go making all of these plans for a November wedding
>> > and see them go down the drain thanks to the whim of a BCIS officer
>> > at the POE.
>> Their decision is not made by whim. Their decision is made by U.S. law.
>> They must assume that *everyone* entering the USA on a non-immigrant
>> visa wants to remain in the USA, permanently. That's what U.S. law
>> requires them to do.
>> > Would it be better to go the K-1 route because the first option of
>> > marrying on the B-2 visa and returning to Colombia to await a K-3
>> > truly is too risky because of potential problems at the POE? If she
>> > truly does intend to return to Colombia after the wedding, on what
>> > grounds could she be denied entry at the POE (particularly since she
>> > has been here three times already this year, and has subsequently
>> > returned to Colombia each time)?
>> >
>> IMHO (and I'm *NOT* one of the "experts", like Ingo on this newsgroup)
>> she might be denied entry and sent back on a return flight to Colombia,
>> the same day she arrives in the POE. If that were to happen, your
>> wedding plans would go up in smoke.
>> The more conservative route for you to take is to get her a Fiancee
>> Visa or get married down here and then apply for a Spouse visa. It may
>> work out, if you take a more risky path, but, it might not.
>> BTW, I am a U.S. Citizen and my wife is a Colombian citizen. We
>> contemplated getting married while on a trip in the USA, because it is
>> so much easier to get married there, but, we had no intention of living
>> in the USA, so we did not face the problems you are facing. We ended up
>> getting married here in Colombia, which requires more paperwork, if the
>> man is not a Colombian citizen.
>> Good luck!
>> Lanny in Cali, Colombia
--
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.
Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml
Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)
My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.
Now with new photos! Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my
new Web site http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.
Aug 27th 2003, 1:07 am
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Marriage on B-2 and wait for K-3?
Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
> On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 06:08:52 -0700, Eduardo Suave wrote:
>
> > I find myself with two choices: (1) carry on with our plans for
> > a November wedding, have her return home to Colombia after the
> > honeymoon, and then file a I-130 and await processing of a K-3 visa;
> > or (2) immediately file a I-129F, await processing of a K-1 visa, and
> > postpone the wedding date to some indefinite time next year.
>
> Or option (3): proceed with the plans as you had originally considered.
> You recognized the risk, although in the end many people seem to get away
> with it. There actually was a precent case in the 1970 that said that if
> the only factor against the applicant is that he failed to mention the
> intent to get married and stay, then in this scenario the government is
> required to forgive him and approve the AOS. Of course, the officer can
> still deny admission when she first enters the USA - but to do that, he'd
> first have to know about the wedding. Of course, make sure that she does
> not outright lie about her plans (that would be more serious and
> constitute immigration fraud), but she can kind of downplay her actual
> plans.
>
> It may also be a good idea for her to travel lightly and mail most of her
> clothes ahead, especially any wedding dresses and the like. BCIS does
> inspect baggage and use that as evidence.
I've considered option 3, but it seemed too risky in the context of
our original plans, which were for her to arrive here permanently less
than a month before the wedding with a fair amount of her belongings,
including of course her wedding dress. From what I've since learned,
the date of her arrival -- less than 30 days before the wedding --
would have been a huge red flag in the AOS process due to the
so-called 30/60 day rule, which would require her to prove she didn't
lie at the POE about not having a preconceived intent to remain.
Pushing her arrival back a week to more than 30 days before the
wedding apparently would still pose some potential problems under the
rule.
She is, however, coming just for a visit of less than a week early
next month, and I've considered convincing her to stay from then
through the wedding date, as that would take place more than 60 days
after her entry and place the burden on BCIS to prove she lied at the
POE about not having an intent to immigrate, a burden which I
understand BCIS usually declines to carry. She will of course be
packing light, and could do something along the lines of what you
suggest, i.e., have her wedding dress sent later. She'll also have a
ticket showing her returning to Colombia the following week. I've been
very tempted to tell her, let's not make any decisions now, let's make
a decision when you're here in a couple of weeks, that way there will
be no question of intent, let alone of lying to the BCIS officer, if
we decide to go forward with the wedding. Plus, if something arose
that made us nervous about the AOS process, we'd still have option 1
open, and she could fly home after the honeymoon and await a K-3 visa.
I think the precedent to which you refer is Matter of Cavazos, a 1980
Board of Immigration Appeals case that does indeed say a preconceived
intent to immigrate is not grounds in and of itself for denying an AOS
application. As you say, though, if she lies at the POE about what she
intends to do, that can be very problematic. In any event, in a way
this is all somewhat ironic, because normally attorneys are very
risk-averse and research the law thoroughly beforehand. In this case I
have obviously been acting completely with my heart first, and then
doing the research. ;-)
> > I don't want to go making all of these plans for a November wedding
> > and see them go down the drain thanks to the whim of a BCIS officer at
> > the POE. What she and I intend to do is clearly legal. The question
> > for the BCIS officer is, as I understand it, how she intends to use
> > her B-2 visa. She intends to enter the country for a short while and
> > then return to Colombia; whether she gets married or not during her
> > stay should be irrelevant in light of that ultimate intention not to
> > remain.
>
> Well, the factual situation is one thing. Quite a different one is how to
> convince the officer. As an attorney, you should know this. In the case of
> immigration law, you are guilty until proven innocent. Especially in light
> of the precent that I mentioned above, BCIS officers will probably take
> quite a strict line as soon as they hear the word "marriage" or even just
> "fiancee" or "boyfriend".
You'd be surprised, or perhaps not, at how many fellow attorneys I've
spoken with (all more or less unfamiliar with immigration law) have
been absolutely stunned by the amount of unbridled discretion vested
in BCIS officers. On a more basic level, they're appalled that I can't
marry who I want where and when I want. In any event, she has family
and friends here, whom she will also be visiting, so she doesn't have
to mention any of those words.
> On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 06:08:52 -0700, Eduardo Suave wrote:
>
> > I find myself with two choices: (1) carry on with our plans for
> > a November wedding, have her return home to Colombia after the
> > honeymoon, and then file a I-130 and await processing of a K-3 visa;
> > or (2) immediately file a I-129F, await processing of a K-1 visa, and
> > postpone the wedding date to some indefinite time next year.
>
> Or option (3): proceed with the plans as you had originally considered.
> You recognized the risk, although in the end many people seem to get away
> with it. There actually was a precent case in the 1970 that said that if
> the only factor against the applicant is that he failed to mention the
> intent to get married and stay, then in this scenario the government is
> required to forgive him and approve the AOS. Of course, the officer can
> still deny admission when she first enters the USA - but to do that, he'd
> first have to know about the wedding. Of course, make sure that she does
> not outright lie about her plans (that would be more serious and
> constitute immigration fraud), but she can kind of downplay her actual
> plans.
>
> It may also be a good idea for her to travel lightly and mail most of her
> clothes ahead, especially any wedding dresses and the like. BCIS does
> inspect baggage and use that as evidence.
I've considered option 3, but it seemed too risky in the context of
our original plans, which were for her to arrive here permanently less
than a month before the wedding with a fair amount of her belongings,
including of course her wedding dress. From what I've since learned,
the date of her arrival -- less than 30 days before the wedding --
would have been a huge red flag in the AOS process due to the
so-called 30/60 day rule, which would require her to prove she didn't
lie at the POE about not having a preconceived intent to remain.
Pushing her arrival back a week to more than 30 days before the
wedding apparently would still pose some potential problems under the
rule.
She is, however, coming just for a visit of less than a week early
next month, and I've considered convincing her to stay from then
through the wedding date, as that would take place more than 60 days
after her entry and place the burden on BCIS to prove she lied at the
POE about not having an intent to immigrate, a burden which I
understand BCIS usually declines to carry. She will of course be
packing light, and could do something along the lines of what you
suggest, i.e., have her wedding dress sent later. She'll also have a
ticket showing her returning to Colombia the following week. I've been
very tempted to tell her, let's not make any decisions now, let's make
a decision when you're here in a couple of weeks, that way there will
be no question of intent, let alone of lying to the BCIS officer, if
we decide to go forward with the wedding. Plus, if something arose
that made us nervous about the AOS process, we'd still have option 1
open, and she could fly home after the honeymoon and await a K-3 visa.
I think the precedent to which you refer is Matter of Cavazos, a 1980
Board of Immigration Appeals case that does indeed say a preconceived
intent to immigrate is not grounds in and of itself for denying an AOS
application. As you say, though, if she lies at the POE about what she
intends to do, that can be very problematic. In any event, in a way
this is all somewhat ironic, because normally attorneys are very
risk-averse and research the law thoroughly beforehand. In this case I
have obviously been acting completely with my heart first, and then
doing the research. ;-)
> > I don't want to go making all of these plans for a November wedding
> > and see them go down the drain thanks to the whim of a BCIS officer at
> > the POE. What she and I intend to do is clearly legal. The question
> > for the BCIS officer is, as I understand it, how she intends to use
> > her B-2 visa. She intends to enter the country for a short while and
> > then return to Colombia; whether she gets married or not during her
> > stay should be irrelevant in light of that ultimate intention not to
> > remain.
>
> Well, the factual situation is one thing. Quite a different one is how to
> convince the officer. As an attorney, you should know this. In the case of
> immigration law, you are guilty until proven innocent. Especially in light
> of the precent that I mentioned above, BCIS officers will probably take
> quite a strict line as soon as they hear the word "marriage" or even just
> "fiancee" or "boyfriend".
You'd be surprised, or perhaps not, at how many fellow attorneys I've
spoken with (all more or less unfamiliar with immigration law) have
been absolutely stunned by the amount of unbridled discretion vested
in BCIS officers. On a more basic level, they're appalled that I can't
marry who I want where and when I want. In any event, she has family
and friends here, whom she will also be visiting, so she doesn't have
to mention any of those words.
Aug 27th 2003, 1:22 am
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Marriage on B-2 and wait for K-3?
[email protected] (Lanny) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
> If you will read further on the newly updated web site of the U.S.
> Embassy in Bogotá, they make it very clear that a visa is *NOT* a
> guarantee of entry into the U.S.A. The *FINAL* decision is always
> made by the BCIS person in the POE and that is not something one can
> debate with them. It is their decision to make.
>
> > I don't want to go making all of these plans for a November wedding
> > and see them go down the drain thanks to the whim of a BCIS officer at
> > the POE.
>
> Their decision is not made by whim. Their decision is made by U.S.
> law. They must assume that *everyone* entering the USA on a
> non-immigrant visa wants to remain in the USA, permanently. That's
> what U.S. law requires them to do.
I realize this is what they are required to do, and I can understand
the rationale behind it, but it still doesn't make it any less
maddening for the honest U.S. citizen who wants to do what the law
clearly allows. The law says I can marry my fiancée while she is here
on a B-2 visa, and that my fiancée can then go back to Colombia and
await the processing of a K-3 visa. If these plans were stated to a
BCIS officer, he or she wouldn't let my fiancée in as things currently
stand, because he is required to assume that she will not be going
back to Colombia after the wedding. Ideally, one would think there
might be some way for BCIS to ensure that my fiancée does return to
Colombia after the wedding, and thus let her in at the POE with these
express plans, but perhaps that's just one more layer of bureaucracy
that BCIS cannot afford, who knows. All I know is that this is yet
another example of immigration laws (or, more precisely, BCIS rules
which have the force of law) conflicting.
> If you will read further on the newly updated web site of the U.S.
> Embassy in Bogotá, they make it very clear that a visa is *NOT* a
> guarantee of entry into the U.S.A. The *FINAL* decision is always
> made by the BCIS person in the POE and that is not something one can
> debate with them. It is their decision to make.
>
> > I don't want to go making all of these plans for a November wedding
> > and see them go down the drain thanks to the whim of a BCIS officer at
> > the POE.
>
> Their decision is not made by whim. Their decision is made by U.S.
> law. They must assume that *everyone* entering the USA on a
> non-immigrant visa wants to remain in the USA, permanently. That's
> what U.S. law requires them to do.
I realize this is what they are required to do, and I can understand
the rationale behind it, but it still doesn't make it any less
maddening for the honest U.S. citizen who wants to do what the law
clearly allows. The law says I can marry my fiancée while she is here
on a B-2 visa, and that my fiancée can then go back to Colombia and
await the processing of a K-3 visa. If these plans were stated to a
BCIS officer, he or she wouldn't let my fiancée in as things currently
stand, because he is required to assume that she will not be going
back to Colombia after the wedding. Ideally, one would think there
might be some way for BCIS to ensure that my fiancée does return to
Colombia after the wedding, and thus let her in at the POE with these
express plans, but perhaps that's just one more layer of bureaucracy
that BCIS cannot afford, who knows. All I know is that this is yet
another example of immigration laws (or, more precisely, BCIS rules
which have the force of law) conflicting.
Aug 27th 2003, 6:04 pm
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Marriage on B-2 and wait for K-3?
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 06:07:20 -0700, Eduardo Suave wrote:
> Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>. ..
>> On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 06:08:52 -0700, Eduardo Suave wrote:
>>
>> > I don't want to go making all of these plans for a November wedding
>> > and see them go down the drain thanks to the whim of a BCIS officer
>> > at the POE. What she and I intend to do is clearly legal. The
>> > question for the BCIS officer is, as I understand it, how she intends
>> > to use her B-2 visa. She intends to enter the country for a short
>> > while and then return to Colombia; whether she gets married or not
>> > during her stay should be irrelevant in light of that ultimate
>> > intention not to remain.
>>
>> Well, the factual situation is one thing. Quite a different one is how
>> to convince the officer. As an attorney, you should know this. In the
>> case of immigration law, you are guilty until proven innocent.
>> Especially in light of the precent that I mentioned above, BCIS
>> officers will probably take quite a strict line as soon as they hear
>> the word "marriage" or even just "fiancee" or "boyfriend".
>
> You'd be surprised, or perhaps not, at how many fellow attorneys I've
> spoken with (all more or less unfamiliar with immigration law) have been
> absolutely stunned by the amount of unbridled discretion vested in BCIS
> officers. On a more basic level, they're appalled that I can't marry who
> I want where and when I want. In any event, she has family and friends
> here, whom she will also be visiting, so she doesn't have to mention any
> of those words.
I'm not surprised at all. But if this stuns you, you should read up on the
Family 2A preference for a real eye-opener. I'm actually trying to raise
awareness of that problem on my lobbying page at
http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml; there a a few bills already
pending in Congress that would finally fix this atrocious rule.
Basically, it says that if a Green Card holder, such as myself, wants to
marry a non-citizen, then she can't even go through the same hoops that
your fiancee would be eligible for. Rather, we'd have to get married
first, then file a petition with the government, and then wait for around
five years before an immigrant visa becomes available. And during that
time, she would not even be allowed to visit the USA as a tourist. Oh -
and US law also prohibits me moving to her.
--
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.
Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml
Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)
My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.
Now with new photos! Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my
new Web site http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.
> Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>. ..
>> On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 06:08:52 -0700, Eduardo Suave wrote:
>>
>> > I don't want to go making all of these plans for a November wedding
>> > and see them go down the drain thanks to the whim of a BCIS officer
>> > at the POE. What she and I intend to do is clearly legal. The
>> > question for the BCIS officer is, as I understand it, how she intends
>> > to use her B-2 visa. She intends to enter the country for a short
>> > while and then return to Colombia; whether she gets married or not
>> > during her stay should be irrelevant in light of that ultimate
>> > intention not to remain.
>>
>> Well, the factual situation is one thing. Quite a different one is how
>> to convince the officer. As an attorney, you should know this. In the
>> case of immigration law, you are guilty until proven innocent.
>> Especially in light of the precent that I mentioned above, BCIS
>> officers will probably take quite a strict line as soon as they hear
>> the word "marriage" or even just "fiancee" or "boyfriend".
>
> You'd be surprised, or perhaps not, at how many fellow attorneys I've
> spoken with (all more or less unfamiliar with immigration law) have been
> absolutely stunned by the amount of unbridled discretion vested in BCIS
> officers. On a more basic level, they're appalled that I can't marry who
> I want where and when I want. In any event, she has family and friends
> here, whom she will also be visiting, so she doesn't have to mention any
> of those words.
I'm not surprised at all. But if this stuns you, you should read up on the
Family 2A preference for a real eye-opener. I'm actually trying to raise
awareness of that problem on my lobbying page at
http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml; there a a few bills already
pending in Congress that would finally fix this atrocious rule.
Basically, it says that if a Green Card holder, such as myself, wants to
marry a non-citizen, then she can't even go through the same hoops that
your fiancee would be eligible for. Rather, we'd have to get married
first, then file a petition with the government, and then wait for around
five years before an immigrant visa becomes available. And during that
time, she would not even be allowed to visit the USA as a tourist. Oh -
and US law also prohibits me moving to her.
--
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.
Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml
Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)
My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.
Now with new photos! Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my
new Web site http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.
Aug 27th 2003, 10:34 pm
#9
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 35,082
Re: Marriage on B-2 and wait for K-3?
Originally posted by Eduardo Suave
<snip>The law says I can marry my fiancée while she is here
on a B-2 visa, and that my fiancée can then go back to Colombia and
await the processing of a K-3 visa. If these plans were stated to a
BCIS officer, he or she wouldn't let my fiancée in as things currently
stand, because he is required to assume that she will not be going
back to Colombia after the wedding. Ideally, one would think there
might be some way for BCIS to ensure that my fiancée does return to
Colombia after the wedding, and thus let her in at the POE with these
express plans,
<snip>
<snip>The law says I can marry my fiancée while she is here
on a B-2 visa, and that my fiancée can then go back to Colombia and
await the processing of a K-3 visa. If these plans were stated to a
BCIS officer, he or she wouldn't let my fiancée in as things currently
stand, because he is required to assume that she will not be going
back to Colombia after the wedding. Ideally, one would think there
might be some way for BCIS to ensure that my fiancée does return to
Colombia after the wedding, and thus let her in at the POE with these
express plans,
<snip>
It's not an immediate solution, but the waits are not too bad.
Additionally, as DCF for non-resident USCs has been discontinued in Colombia, you may want to see how long it takes for you to get a residency permit for Colombia based on your marriage (or other, perhaps work) and file your 1-130 there. You may want to consider a civil wedding on her visit to speed up filing of your I-130/K3 in the US as well.
Aug 28th 2003, 7:16 am
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Marriage on B-2 and wait for K-3?
[email protected] (Eduardo Suave) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
> I am a U.S. citizen and am engaged to a Colombian national. We are
> both attorneys in our respective countries
Eduardo: IMHO, you and your fiancee should take one of these two (2)
conservative paths:
(a) apply *NOW* for a Fiancee Visa, get married in the USA as you have
planned, after she enters the USA on the *Fiancee* Visa, and then
apply for her U.S. residency permits or
(b) you come down here, get married in Colombia, and then you apply
with her, in the U.S. Embassy in Bogotá, for her visa, so she can live
in the USA with you.
You *might* get away with some other method that has been suggested in
this thread, but you might *not* get away with it. Because you are an
attorney, I suspect you will be expected to know the law, and to
follow the law.
IMHO, the idea suggested that you become a Colombian resident, so you
can apply in the U.S. Embassy in Bogotá, after your marriage, would be
a waste of time and money and you would have *NO* way to prove your
Colombian residence and you would, at the same time, be applying for
permission for her to live in the USA. They would PROBABLY nail you on
that. I've lived here for 8 1/2 years. I can prove that I am a
Colombian resident, but you would *not* be able to prove that you are
a bona fide resident of Colombia.
Good luck to you and your fiancee! Lanny in Cali, Valle
> I am a U.S. citizen and am engaged to a Colombian national. We are
> both attorneys in our respective countries
Eduardo: IMHO, you and your fiancee should take one of these two (2)
conservative paths:
(a) apply *NOW* for a Fiancee Visa, get married in the USA as you have
planned, after she enters the USA on the *Fiancee* Visa, and then
apply for her U.S. residency permits or
(b) you come down here, get married in Colombia, and then you apply
with her, in the U.S. Embassy in Bogotá, for her visa, so she can live
in the USA with you.
You *might* get away with some other method that has been suggested in
this thread, but you might *not* get away with it. Because you are an
attorney, I suspect you will be expected to know the law, and to
follow the law.
IMHO, the idea suggested that you become a Colombian resident, so you
can apply in the U.S. Embassy in Bogotá, after your marriage, would be
a waste of time and money and you would have *NO* way to prove your
Colombian residence and you would, at the same time, be applying for
permission for her to live in the USA. They would PROBABLY nail you on
that. I've lived here for 8 1/2 years. I can prove that I am a
Colombian resident, but you would *not* be able to prove that you are
a bona fide resident of Colombia.
Good luck to you and your fiancee! Lanny in Cali, Valle
Aug 28th 2003, 9:26 pm
#11
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 35,082
Re: Marriage on B-2 and wait for K-3?
Originally posted by Lanny
(b) you come down here, get married in Colombia, and then you apply
with her, in the U.S. Embassy in Bogotá, for her visa, so she can live
in the USA with you.
<snip>
IMHO, the idea suggested that you become a Colombian resident, so you
can apply in the U.S. Embassy in Bogotá, after your marriage, would be
a waste of time and money and you would have *NO* way to prove your
Colombian residence and you would, at the same time, be applying for
permission for her to live in the USA. They would PROBABLY nail you on
that. I've lived here for 8 1/2 years. I can prove that I am a
Colombian resident, but you would *not* be able to prove that you are
a bona fide resident of Colombia.
Good luck to you and your fiancee! Lanny in Cali, Valle
(b) you come down here, get married in Colombia, and then you apply
with her, in the U.S. Embassy in Bogotá, for her visa, so she can live
in the USA with you.
<snip>
IMHO, the idea suggested that you become a Colombian resident, so you
can apply in the U.S. Embassy in Bogotá, after your marriage, would be
a waste of time and money and you would have *NO* way to prove your
Colombian residence and you would, at the same time, be applying for
permission for her to live in the USA. They would PROBABLY nail you on
that. I've lived here for 8 1/2 years. I can prove that I am a
Colombian resident, but you would *not* be able to prove that you are
a bona fide resident of Colombia.
Good luck to you and your fiancee! Lanny in Cali, Valle
Thanks for an 'on the ground' idea. The reason I mention getting residency is that Colombia will no longer allow a USC who is not a resident of Colombia to file the paperwork at the Embassy (Consulate).
Aug 29th 2003, 7:31 am
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Marriage on B-2 and wait for K-3?
[email protected] (Lanny) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
> [email protected] (Eduardo Suave) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
> > I am a U.S. citizen and am engaged to a Colombian national. We are
> > both attorneys in our respective countries
>
> Eduardo: IMHO, you and your fiancee should take one of these two (2)
> conservative paths:
>
> (a) apply *NOW* for a Fiancee Visa, get married in the USA as you have
> planned, after she enters the USA on the *Fiancee* Visa, and then
> apply for her U.S. residency permits or
>
> (b) you come down here, get married in Colombia, and then you apply
> with her, in the U.S. Embassy in Bogotá, for her visa, so she can live
> in the USA with you.
>
> You *might* get away with some other method that has been suggested in
> this thread, but you might *not* get away with it. Because you are an
> attorney, I suspect you will be expected to know the law, and to
> follow the law.
>
> IMHO, the idea suggested that you become a Colombian resident, so you
> can apply in the U.S. Embassy in Bogotá, after your marriage, would be
> a waste of time and money and you would have *NO* way to prove your
> Colombian residence and you would, at the same time, be applying for
> permission for her to live in the USA. They would PROBABLY nail you on
> that. I've lived here for 8 1/2 years. I can prove that I am a
> Colombian resident, but you would *not* be able to prove that you are
> a bona fide resident of Colombia.
>
> Good luck to you and your fiancee! Lanny in Cali, Valle
It looks like we are going for option (a), the K-1 fiancée visa route.
You're right, I am risk-averse when it comes to following the law, and
the only loophole I found -- "tricking" my fiancée when she comes here
in a couple of weeks for what she thought would be a short visit, and
then convincing her after entry to stay and get married -- fell apart
for reasons I won't go into here.
As meauxna mentioned, the U.S. Embassy in Bogotá stopped accepting
spousal visa petitions less than two months ago. Since we want to get
married here in the States, the fiancée visa is the only way to go.
Thanks for your sentiments. Who knows, I may just get fed up with this
whole thing and move down there, marry her, and teach English or
something.
> [email protected] (Eduardo Suave) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
> > I am a U.S. citizen and am engaged to a Colombian national. We are
> > both attorneys in our respective countries
>
> Eduardo: IMHO, you and your fiancee should take one of these two (2)
> conservative paths:
>
> (a) apply *NOW* for a Fiancee Visa, get married in the USA as you have
> planned, after she enters the USA on the *Fiancee* Visa, and then
> apply for her U.S. residency permits or
>
> (b) you come down here, get married in Colombia, and then you apply
> with her, in the U.S. Embassy in Bogotá, for her visa, so she can live
> in the USA with you.
>
> You *might* get away with some other method that has been suggested in
> this thread, but you might *not* get away with it. Because you are an
> attorney, I suspect you will be expected to know the law, and to
> follow the law.
>
> IMHO, the idea suggested that you become a Colombian resident, so you
> can apply in the U.S. Embassy in Bogotá, after your marriage, would be
> a waste of time and money and you would have *NO* way to prove your
> Colombian residence and you would, at the same time, be applying for
> permission for her to live in the USA. They would PROBABLY nail you on
> that. I've lived here for 8 1/2 years. I can prove that I am a
> Colombian resident, but you would *not* be able to prove that you are
> a bona fide resident of Colombia.
>
> Good luck to you and your fiancee! Lanny in Cali, Valle
It looks like we are going for option (a), the K-1 fiancée visa route.
You're right, I am risk-averse when it comes to following the law, and
the only loophole I found -- "tricking" my fiancée when she comes here
in a couple of weeks for what she thought would be a short visit, and
then convincing her after entry to stay and get married -- fell apart
for reasons I won't go into here.
As meauxna mentioned, the U.S. Embassy in Bogotá stopped accepting
spousal visa petitions less than two months ago. Since we want to get
married here in the States, the fiancée visa is the only way to go.
Thanks for your sentiments. Who knows, I may just get fed up with this
whole thing and move down there, marry her, and teach English or
something.
Sep 2nd 2003, 11:04 am
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Marriage on B-2 and wait for K-3?
[email protected] (Eduardo Suave) wrote in message
<snip>
> It looks like we are going for option (a), the K-1 fiancée visa route.
Super! I hope you will get the K-1 visa for her quickly! With that,
she can bring her Wedding Dress and a lot of other clothes and
everything will be OK after your marriage and you can get her status
changed in the USA, without any problems (or $ for immigration
attorneys :-) ). We helped a couple with some of the papers for a
K-1 Visa, 3 years ago. I believe it took 2-3 months. Once they had
everything ready, she did not need an appointment in the Embassy. She
went early one morning, for medical lab. tests (and possibly a visit
with a doctor approved by the embassy too) and after she had the
results, she went the next morning to the embassy. If my memory is
correct, a couple of weeks later, her papers were ready. We went to
Bogotá for other reasons and brought her papers back to Cali with us.
She's in the USA and married now.
>
> Thanks for your sentiments. Who knows, I may just get fed up with this
> whole thing and move down there, marry her, and teach English or
> something.
Well, my wife and I believe the English teachers in private language
schools here earn a very *low* salary. High turnover position. If you
have the credentials and teaching experience, probably in one of the
better bilingual schools you would do OK. I have met a number of
people like that here, from the USA, Canada and England.
MUCH good luck, to you and your fiancee! Lanny in Cali, Colombia
<snip>
> It looks like we are going for option (a), the K-1 fiancée visa route.
Super! I hope you will get the K-1 visa for her quickly! With that,
she can bring her Wedding Dress and a lot of other clothes and
everything will be OK after your marriage and you can get her status
changed in the USA, without any problems (or $ for immigration
attorneys :-) ). We helped a couple with some of the papers for a
K-1 Visa, 3 years ago. I believe it took 2-3 months. Once they had
everything ready, she did not need an appointment in the Embassy. She
went early one morning, for medical lab. tests (and possibly a visit
with a doctor approved by the embassy too) and after she had the
results, she went the next morning to the embassy. If my memory is
correct, a couple of weeks later, her papers were ready. We went to
Bogotá for other reasons and brought her papers back to Cali with us.
She's in the USA and married now.
>
> Thanks for your sentiments. Who knows, I may just get fed up with this
> whole thing and move down there, marry her, and teach English or
> something.
Well, my wife and I believe the English teachers in private language
schools here earn a very *low* salary. High turnover position. If you
have the credentials and teaching experience, probably in one of the
better bilingual schools you would do OK. I have met a number of
people like that here, from the USA, Canada and England.
MUCH good luck, to you and your fiancee! Lanny in Cali, Colombia
