Jim_FL

I will give you a very short version of the story here with hopes you might advise:

My fiancee lives in a small town near Nizhniy Novgorod, Russia
Five weeks ago, she spoke with her ex husband about getting permission for their 3 yr old son to travel with her (per K-1 requirement)
He seemed fine with it.
This past friday morning at 6am he came drunk to her apartment to "talk"
It became argument because he changed his mind and refused to give permission.
He beat her, and raped her, with son in the apartment, then left. (she believes this was to punish her for divorce and not taking him back)
She did not go to police - after reading current russian law on this type of crime (familiar rape) I wish she had but I can not blame her, she has virtually no chance of winning a conviction, not to mention the social ramifications in her small town.
In the span of 5 days her father has gone from "wanting to kill" the ex, to choosing to forget the crime was commited and sitting down to talk with the ex. Her father now supports the ex in his decision not to allow permission for the child to travel. (they feel son should be brought up as "real Russian man" some role models, huh?)
She feels totally betrayed and alone, she wants out of russia ASAP
I can not do much to help from here, (and feel like I'm getting the shit kicked out of me by "the invisable man")
Divorce was final 04/01 There is no court ordered support, and no court supported visitation schedule
The ex does not make enough money to support himself, has said she can go but child must be given to him (she cannot and will not allow that to happen, and I feel the same)

Where do we turn? what do we do? Is there ANY way around this "permission"? what type of attorney would best fit our needs?

ANY suggestion would be greatly appreciated,

mrsstrickland

im sorry about your situation. I had problems with my ex-husband regarding my children although my situation was in England, i ended up having to go to court to win my battle (court order) although my ex didnt want the children he still had parental rights, the whole thing lasted 5 months, very painful for my USC husband and my children because they wanted to come with me, and they couldnt believe their dad was capable of doing such a thing, so all i can say is research this well, i am not familiar with Russian law, but this was my experience, GOOD LUCK and i hope you get your family back together soon

Mrs_blackross

I would say SCREW the social ramifications. Even in Russia there has to be some laws
against rape and assault? she should go to the police, have him charged, then file in
court for sole custody.

"Jim_FL" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I will give you a very short version of the story here with hopes you might advise:
    > My fiancee lives in a small town near Nizhniy Novgorod, Russia Five weeks ago, she
    > spoke with her ex husband about getting permission for their 3 yr old son to
    > travel with her (per K-1 requirement) He seemed fine with it. This past friday
    > morning at 6am he came drunk to her apartment to "talk" It became argument because
    > he changed his mind and refused to give permission. He beat her, and raped her,
    > with son in the apartment, then left. (she believes this was to punish her for
    > divorce and not taking him back) She did not go to police - after reading current
    > russian law on this type of crime (familiar rape) I wish she had but I can not
    > blame her, she has virtually no chance of winning a conviction, not to mention the
    > social ramifications in her small town. In the span of 5 days her father has gone
    > from "wanting to kill" the ex, to choosing to forget the crime was commited and
    > sitting down to talk with the ex. Her father now supports the ex in his decision
    > not to allow permission for the child to travel. (they feel son should be brought
    > up as "real Russian man" some role models, huh?) She feels totally betrayed and
    > alone, she wants out of russia ASAP I can not do much to help from here, (and feel
    > like I'm getting the shit kicked out of me by "the invisable man") Divorce was
    > final 04/01 There is no court ordered support, and no court supported visitation
    > schedule The ex does not make enough money to support himself, has said she can go
    > but child must be given to him (she cannot and will not allow that to happen, and
    > I feel the same)
    > Where do we turn? what do we do? Is there ANY way around this "permission"? what
    > type of attorney would best fit our needs?
    > ANY suggestion would be greatly appreciated,
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Jim_FL

I attempted numorous times to get her to rethink filing the report. Here's the way it works, she goes in to file the report, they tell her to come back tomorrow the person she needs is off today, tomorrow she gets same story, if lucky on third day she gets to talk to someone. They tell her because she knew him AND let him in, she has no case (this situation is classified as "unreal rape" or "familiar rape" under current russian law). Then they refuse to take the paper the statement is written on. If she pushes, she can have them ORDERED to take the paper as early as the following day. Once police accept the paper they wait 3 more days and render a decision to proceed or drop the case. IF they proceed they send her to a special doctor to collect any evidence (this is 7-8 days later MINIMUM how much evidence do you think will be left?) Not all doctors and hospitals in rural russia have rape kits, and after 8 days, why even bother? If the snowball makes it through hell, and they find something, he is picked up. At this point, the police call her back in to the station. They sit her in a room directly opposite him (he is permitted an attorney, she is not) And an officer observes and takes notes, as she tells the whole story detail by detail to his face and he (or his lawyer) trys to impeach her story while she tells it. This will be anywhere from the 5th to the 20th time she has to relive that morning in front of strangers. As I said, I have asked her to do it, I can not force her to do it, and I can not look down on her for not doing it.

I have been in contact with a Moscow based attorney who thinks he can help get around the permission requirement, but I won't know for sure until after he speaks with her tomorrow.

Des

Jim,

just a thought - maybe it would be the best to report the assault/rape, as she might
have a better chance of winning the court case if she decided to go against her
father and ex-husband in taking the child with her. However, as I am not familiar
with Russian law at all, you need to research this and get her a lawyer if possible
to discuss her options before any action is taken.

-Des

[email protected]

FWIW, this permission to take the child out of the country is NOT asked for by the
consulate when getting the visa, or the airline or exit control when leaving Russia.
I was also informed a year or so that it was no longer part of Russian Law, although
I can not vouch for that. Once the child is in the US, you can take legal action to
have the parental ties severed. In many states, you can simply put an ad in a Russian
paper serving the other parent's last know address. If there is no reply, then you
are generally OK.

I wish you well. I can't understand how a father can recommend his father live with
the Ex after what was done to his daughter.

Where did you see a requirement that his permission was needed for K-1/K2?

[email protected]

Jim_FL wrote:
    > Originally posted by Mrs_blackross:
    > > I would say SCREW the social ramifications. Even in Russia there has to be some
    > > laws against rape and assault? she should go to the police, have him charged,
    > > then file in court for sole custody.
    > >
    > I attempted numorous times to get her to rethink filing the report. Here's the way
    > it works, she goes in to file the report, they tell her to come back tomorrow the
    > person she needs is off today, tomorrow she gets same story, if lucky on third day
    > she gets to talk to someone.

Intereesting.. How does she know this is how they handle a beating and rape?


    > They tell her because she knew him AND let him in, she has no case (this situation
    > is classified as "unreal rape" or "familiar rape" under current russian

Well, I do agree that there might be question about the reason for letting a drunk ex
in the door at 6 AM for discussion. After all, drunks are clearly going to discuss
anything. Not that I condone that as a valid reasona against prosecution, only that
it doesn't help the case in Russia, or even in fron of a jury in the US.

As I said earlier... My wife (from Russia) was never asked for the permission
document she carried, until the Italian consulate wanted it when they were applying
for a Schengen visa last year. She has traveled to Russia multiple times and has
never had the issue come up when leaving. Her mother has also traveled out of Russia
with her grandaughter and has never needed it.

Jim_FL

I read it in several published papers dealing with rape and violent crime in russia. She knew it because she has lived there all her life. Where she lives is nothing like moscow or St Petersburg


According the passport control office at SVO It is a required document, I don't know if is enforced randomly, or not at all. An attorney I consulted in Moscow confirmed that it is on the books, but he does not know how strongly it's enforced at each particular airport in the country either.

Mrtravel

Jim_FL wrote:
    > According the passport control office at SVO It is a required document, I don't
    > know if is enforced randomly, or not at all. An attorney I consulted in Moscow
    > confirmed that it is on the books, but he does not know how strongly it's enforced
    > at each particular airport in the country either.

I have never heard of it being asked for. My wife says she has never heard of it
being asked for. Admittedly, this is usually her friends and ex coworkers that go to
Cyprus, but I doubt passport control cares about what country they are going to. You
might even try asking in the russian group about this.

Dutch

On Wed, 04 Sep 2002 21:49:03 GMT, mrtravel <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Jim_FL wrote:
    >> According the passport control office at SVO It is a required document, I don't
    >> know if is enforced randomly, or not at all. An attorney I consulted in Moscow
    >> confirmed that it is on the books, but he does not know how strongly it's enforced
    >> at each particular airport in the country either.
    >I have never heard of it being asked for. My wife says she has never heard of it
    >being asked for. Admittedly, this is usually her friends and ex coworkers that go to
    >Cyprus, but I doubt passport control cares about what country they are going to.
I can tell you (again) from personal experience that a child in the
Philippines will not even be granted a Philippine Passport to travel without
first providing notarized permission from both parents. This is required by
the Philippine Bureau of Child Welfare; and without the passport, the kid
will not leave the country.

DUTCH