Dontaskdonttell

I'd like to thank the many posters who have been through the mill, who
return to share their experiences here; I've learned a lot lurking in
this group.

But I haven't seen this situation addressed much: I'm the USC, and I
have no taxable income and no assets. Of course, I will still complete
Affidavits of Support for my fiancee's K-1 -- I will be her sponsor.

I do not live with anybody, so I will have no co-sponsor. Therefore, I
must have a joint sponsor. The joint sponsor will have to meet the
125%-of-poverty line on his or her own. I've done my homework on this
issue, and I think I've got a good grasp of the basics.

Granted that I could probably flange up something to get past the actual
K-1 -- something acceptable to the interviewing consulate -- but I will
need a joint sponsor's I-864 for the AOS.

The question is: How should I find a joint sponsor? I've been living
overseas for the last 5 years and I really don't have a relationship
with anybody, such that I could ask this as a personal favor. Does
anybody do this sort of work for a fee?

It looks rather like a kind of liability insurance to me:

I pay you a fee; I drive my car. In exchange, you guarantee that if I
run over a bag lady, you will pay her hospital bills.

Similarly, I take my fiancee into US; I pay you a fee. In exchange, you
guarantee that if she goes on welfare, you reimburse the government.

To keep this thread simple, I'd like to just keep off to the side the
whole discussion about whether or not my fiancee and I would be a good
risk. There are ways in which I can demonstrate it, but not here in the
NG.

In all discussions that I have ever read about it, the joint sponsor is
either a family member, usually Dad; or seems to have guaranteed the
immigrant out of the goodness of his or her heart. I understand the
family connection -- wish I had the same.

But if you think I sound strange, offering to pay a joint sponsor, then
please tell me who would do such a thing for free?

ScarlettHill

I'm afraid it sounds very unlikely to me. A sponsor is risking 10 years of paying out to keep the alien at the 125% marker - even if you divorce. The commitment is almost as great as that of marriage - and more legally binding with no way out for longer! It takes a huge amount of trust in you as individuals for someone to agree to put their own finances on the line like that. I can't see a stranger doing that. Also, I can't see someone who can't afford to sponsor being able to have anywhere near the kind of money that would induce someone to do this - the risk is just too high. If the alien gets citizenship then the sponsor is released at that point. But what if they don't, or won't? I'm not judging you. I don't know you. But neither would someone you were paying to sponsor you.

It may turn out that you need to go to the US ahead of your fiance and secure a job that meets the requirements. If you're the good risk you say you are, then that shouldn't be too much of a problem, though obviously it would be inconvenient. The poverty guidelines aren't that high. It's do-able. My husband and I struggled with this one too - in the event, we made it through AOS just 1 dollar 56 cents over the marker so I'm not sitting in a big house with wads of dosh looking down on you. I do know what this can be like.

I wanted to mention your comment about, "I could probably flange up something to get past the actual
K-1". This sounds dodgy to me. Do not attempt to dissemble in any way in this immigration business - it is highly likely to catch up with you later if not sooner. My advice is be patient and do whatever you have to do to do it the right way.

I'm sorry if this sounds unsympathetic. It isn't meant that way. I'm sure you'll find your way to where you want to be if you're determined.

Best of luck.

Regards
-=-
Scarlett

Alex

dontaskdonttell wrote:
    > I'd like to thank the many posters who have been through the mill, who
    > return to share their experiences here; I've learned a lot lurking in
    > this group.
    >
    > But I haven't seen this situation addressed much: I'm the USC, and I
    > have no taxable income and no assets. Of course, I will still complete
    > Affidavits of Support for my fiancee's K-1 -- I will be her sponsor.

You say you don't have "taxable" income - do you have any income? My
wife is on disability and therefore does not have taxable income and my
income (Canadian disability) is not taxable either and we did just fine
in getting my AOS done without a joint-sponsor.

One would have to assume that you have some sort of income in which you
are surviving on.

Keep it in mind.

Dontaskdonttell

    > One would have to assume that you have some
    >sort of income in which you are surviving on.

{sigh} I knew this thread would get dragged off-topic almost
immediately. Do you see my handle? Please let's just stick to the point:
How does one get a joint sponsor?


    > "I could probably flange up something ..."
    >This sounds dodgy to me.

Yeah; "flange" means "dodgy". Which is why I'd rather *not* fool around
like that, and instead sew up the joint sponsor *first*.


    > I'm afraid it sounds very unlikely to me. A sponsor is risking 10 years
    > of paying out ... I can't see a stranger doing that.

Hey, sounds unlikely to me, too. I can't see *anybody* doing this for
anybody. That's my point. What possible incentive or guarantee is being
offered to joint sponsors?

An insurance company commonly gambles millions of dollars against
hundreds. But I think you're right; joint sponsorship is a fairly high
risk, as such things go. Yet people assume this risk all the time.

I've often seen references to some happy couple getting a joint sponsor.
Sometimes, he's not even a family member. I think he must not really
know/understand/believe what he is getting into.

OK, the question still stands. Let me phrase it more clearly:

To anybody with a joint sponsor: How did you get him or her to do it?

BeachBunny

When I was considering moving over to Wales to wait out my time.. I lined up mine and my husband's best friends.

They have a big interest in seeing us come back to California because we are the matron of honor and best man for their wedding.

Sounds like you need to come back, get a job above poverty level and then sponsor her yourself. I've NEVER heard of sponsors for hire.

L D Jones

dontaskdonttell wrote:
    >
    > > One would have to assume that you have some
    > >sort of income in which you are surviving on.
    >
    > {sigh} I knew this thread would get dragged off-topic almost
    > immediately. Do you see my handle? Please let's just stick to the point:
    > How does one get a joint sponsor?

Explain the consequences or terms and ask?

I don't see what's so off-topic about any of the posts here so far. (You
probably know) a joint sponsor can be any US citizen or permanent
resident who normally lives in the US. I'm not sure how many other
answers the question can have

meauxna

I see this as a problem of what we'll call "undocumented income". I don't really care how you're getting it; I can think of legitimate and illegitimate ways.

Getting the co-sponsor is a matter of inspiring confidence. You, as the primary sponsor, will be the first in line to repay any benefits your alien receives. If YOU default, then the co-sponsor is in line. How well can you convince a co-sponsor that you WILL be responsible for your alien's debts, even if you're divorced from her? How did I get my co-sponsor? They are people who know me, understand my unorthodox career moves and have seen enough of my track record to know that 1) I was making a sound decision specific to the alien I am sponsoring and 2) I am extrememly ethical and would make good on my word.

This *is* a financial deal. How would you deal with a mortgage or other lender? It's one of the drawbacks of 'living off the grid'; once you want to take advantage of certain institutions (immigration, banking or other), you have to play by 'the rules'. You're not *entitled* to bring your foreign love interest to the US; if you want to do it, there's only one Bureau to go though and they've set the rules. Other options include living abroad in her country or another, mutually appealing one.

Alex

dontaskdonttell wrote:
    >>One would have to assume that you have some
    >>sort of income in which you are surviving on.
    >
    >
    > {sigh} I knew this thread would get dragged off-topic almost
    > immediately. Do you see my handle? Please let's just stick to the point:
    > How does one get a joint sponsor?

The whole point of my post was that you might not need a co-sponsor
because your income does not have to be taxable to count. And they will
not use a co-sponsor if what you have is enough to make the 125% - this
I know from experience.

How you will survive the microscope of BCIS when you are this touchy
about an honest reply to your situation should prove interesting.

PS - I didn't ask and I really don't care.

Dontaskdonttell

    >...you might not need a co-sponsor...

Perhaps it's very silly of me, but I tend to have a hard time getting
past any comment in which a joint sponsor is referred to as a sponsor or
co-sponsor. The three are very different.

I'm sure most readers know the difference, but just in case, please
allow me to clarify these terms, as I understand them:

For a K-1 or K-3 visa, the USC fiance or spouse is always the sponsor
(sometimes called the primary sponsor).

Another family member living in the same household as the sponsor may
become a co-sponsor. In this case, all the co-sponsors' incomes are
added together to meet the 125% line.

Any US resident, related or not, may become a joint sponsor. The joint
sponsor must have sufficient income to meet the 125% line on his own, no
matter how close the sponsor gets to it.

If I'm wrong about this, please feel free to correct me.

In my case, as I live alone, a co-sponsor is out of the question.

= = = =

    >...you are this touchy about an honest reply to your situation...

There doesn't seem to be any way to politely refuse to discuss a matter
without seeming cold or snotty, and I'm very sorry about that. OK?


    > I see this as a problem of what we'll call "undocumented income".

OK, that's a good way to go with it. Let's move on?


    >once you want to take advantage of certain institutions
    >...you have to play by 'the rules'.

Again, this comment veers away from the topic I'm attempting to raise.
I'm certainly *not* proposing to smuggle my fiancee into the country in
a cargo container; nor do I plan to fabricate a plush income to satisfy
the public charge requirement. The rules say I can get a joint sponsor;
they don't say anything about what I can or must do to get one.

I'm just trying to find out how people have been able to convince others
-- non-relatives, especially -- to assume the burden of being joint
sponsors. There are a million fascinating topics to discuss, but I
started this thread because it is joint sponsorship I'd like to learn
about.

= = = =

    > Getting the [joint?] co-sponsor is a matter of inspiring confidence.

This answer is pertinent. And indeed I have certain means at my disposal
to demonstrate to a prospective joint sponsor why he will never be
called upon.


    > This *is* a financial deal.

Well, I think it should be. And then, I'd like to know where to go to do
the deal. If I want to borrow cash, I go to a bank or a loan shark. If I
want to bet a horse race, I go to a bookie or I go to the track. If I
want to hedge the risk of killing somebody with my car, I go to an
insurance agent.

Essentially, I want somebody to insure against my fiancee going begging.
Should be straightforward business. Like similar deals, with a price
attached and security offered.

But I've read very few stories about joint sponsors, other than Moms and
Dads. And they all seem to have an extremely casual, unbusinesslike
tone.

Hey, I might *know* you as a man of uncorruptable virtue, but if you
asked me to guarantee to support your family -- for up to 10 years! --
I'd want some solid security, and a goodly sized chunk of cash up front
for the risk. You could die, God forbid, become ill, who knows.

I'm not entirely certain, but the way I read it, if the immigrating
spouse stays for 2 years, there's a Removal of Conditions. Now, at that
point, she can get a divorce, and still retain her right to reside in
US. No? And still come back to the joint sponsor to keep her off
welfare. I can picture half-a-dozen nightmare scenarios.

Frankly, I don't think I *will* get a joint sponsor; I can't imagine
anybody careless enough to assume the risk without compensation, and I
don't know if anybody has had the notion to go into this line of work.
I'll probably have to do something else. *But* I'd like to hear from the
group on this.

BeachBunny

You won't need a joint / co - sponsor if you have in savings a certain amount of money. Can't remember the exact amount.. but I think it is something like 5 times the poverty guideline in savings.

meauxna

I beg to differ re: 'the rules'. I'm not veering off topic. I believe you've mis-interpreted my comments. The 'rules' I refer to are societal; I certainly didn't mean smuggling etc.
<snip>
    > Getting the [joint?] co-sponsor is a matter of inspiring confidence.

This answer is pertinent. And indeed I have certain means at my disposal
to demonstrate to a prospective joint sponsor why he will never be
called upon.


    > This *is* a financial deal.

Well, I think it should be. And then, I'd like to know where to go to do
the deal. If I want to borrow cash, I go to a bank or a loan shark. If I
want to bet a horse race, I go to a bookie or I go to the track. If I
want to hedge the risk of killing somebody with my car, I go to an
insurance agent.

Essentially, I want somebody to insure against my fiancee going begging.
Should be straightforward business. Like similar deals, with a price
attached and security offered.

But I've read very few stories about joint sponsors, other than Moms and
Dads. And they all seem to have an extremely casual, unbusinesslike
tone.

Hey, I might *know* you as a man of uncorruptable virtue, but if you
asked me to guarantee to support your family -- for up to 10 years! --
I'd want some solid security, and a goodly sized chunk of cash up front
for the risk. You could die, God forbid, become ill, who knows.

I'm not entirely certain, but the way I read it, if the immigrating
spouse stays for 2 years, there's a Removal of Conditions. Now, at that
point, she can get a divorce, and still retain her right to reside in
US. No? And still come back to the joint sponsor to keep her off
welfare. I can picture half-a-dozen nightmare scenarios.

Frankly, I don't think I *will* get a joint sponsor; I can't imagine
anybody careless enough to assume the risk without compensation, and I
don't know if anybody has had the notion to go into this line of work.
I'll probably have to do something else. *But* I'd like to hear from the
group on this. [/QUOTE]

You know, I'm just not going to answer the rest of this. I think I know where you're coming from and we just see things differently. BeachBunny has pointed out that you can use cash as an asset. If you are unwilling to expose any of your assets, then don't. I don't know where you would find a joint sponsor; some people have gone to their church etc when family won't/can't help. The nightmare scenarios you imagine can and do happen. In fact, I think the co/joint sponsorhip issue is more about the alien than the USC...she's the one they kind of have to trust.

You probably understand the way it works, but for those who don't: IF the alien collects means-tested benefits, the government will (eventually/maybe) charge back the sponsor for these funds. If you are no longer married to the alien at that time and default on the charges, the government would then come to the joint sponsor. There has been brouhaha about the fact that the gov't rarely collects on these debts in the first place.

You don't say what visa you're pursuing, but it is possible to submit an insufficient I-864 and ammend it at interview time. Once the alien has been living with your for +6 months, her income/assets can be counted as family income. Hopefully you see the opportunity here.

I don't give a rat's about your personal life or your motivations. My only suggestion for your future success is that you not blow into a discussion insulting our collective knowledge and demanding only the kind of help you want. That's the problem with usenet, we're just a bunch of amateurs with experience here. If you want an authority, hire a lawyer. Good luck with all that.

Dekka's Angel

Ahh but therein lies the problem. Any respectable attorney would demand to know where he gets his money, so that he or she can understand why having to go about things in a non-straightforward way makes any sense at all and evaluate his or her own personal risk accepting payment from a client with knowledge that the source of that money is or may be less than.....kosher. People rarely have innocent reasons for wanting to keep from government detection the source of their income.

There. I said it. I will go hide back in my interview stress corner now.

kjdrga

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dontaskdonttell
    >...you might not need a co-sponsor...


I'm just trying to find out how people have been able to convince others
-- non-relatives, especially -- to assume the burden of being joint
sponsors. There are a million fascinating topics to discuss, but I
started this thread because it is joint sponsorship I'd like to learn
about.
[QUOTE]


My best friend offered to see if her mother would be willing to be a co-sponsor (for a K1) as she trusted me and has known me for about 6 years. I however did not need to use her in the end as I made 125% above poverty.


Did you fiance not apply for a EAD? If so working at Taco Bell at least would be an additional income to what little you already make. Of course unless that would hurt his ego to be seen there, but everyone must start somewhere....

dbark

But you *have* heard from the group, it is just that you don't like the answers you are getting.

DCMark

Its fairly clear to me that you are dodging taxes, either through a legitimate job where you don't file US taxes (you are overseas) or through a completely criminal enterprise.

If I am wrong, tell me how. You seem to exist well enough to survive and attract a spouse. If this money was legitimate, such as a trust or inheritance, you could use it for the Affidavat.

So you are do need to suffer the off-topic (in your opinion) questions since you are asking the NG to help you perpetuate your nice scam. At least all indications point there. So tell me how I am wrong.