Interesting question, would like opinions/facts
May 22nd 2004, 8:19 pm
#1
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Interesting question, would like opinions/facts
I'm so darned curious I just HAVE to post this question here.
There's this case of someone already married to a USC, who entered the US (already married) under the VWP with the intent to stay and adjust status. I do not know what they said at the POE.
Now 'we all know' this:
Enter with no plan to marry but do: solvable
Enter with plan to marry and leave: no essential problem
Enter with plan to marry and stay/AOS: illegal intent at entry
(Copied from a post by Meauxna, because she summed it up so nicely, thank you M
).
So what happens in this case?
Enter already married with plan to stay/AOS
I am inclined to scream ILLEGAL!!! BUT it says on the visa waiver form that one CAN adjust from the visa waiver program IF married to a US spouse. It never says the marriage has to take place after entering, without intent etc... or does it?
I am NOT trying to bring to the attention any loopholes in the system, and if that's what I'm unknowingly doing, or if that's what this thread turns into, I hope the moderators will act appropriatly (and for that reason this post isn't going to Usenet, either).
I would like to see a mature discussion (not that I can or want to tell anyone what to do, hehehe). And for the record - this is not about me, or anyone I know personally, and I resent what these people are trying to do, but I'm still curious if they might get away with it.
Elaine
There's this case of someone already married to a USC, who entered the US (already married) under the VWP with the intent to stay and adjust status. I do not know what they said at the POE.
Now 'we all know' this:
Enter with no plan to marry but do: solvable
Enter with plan to marry and leave: no essential problem
Enter with plan to marry and stay/AOS: illegal intent at entry
(Copied from a post by Meauxna, because she summed it up so nicely, thank you M
).So what happens in this case?
Enter already married with plan to stay/AOS
I am inclined to scream ILLEGAL!!! BUT it says on the visa waiver form that one CAN adjust from the visa waiver program IF married to a US spouse. It never says the marriage has to take place after entering, without intent etc... or does it?
I am NOT trying to bring to the attention any loopholes in the system, and if that's what I'm unknowingly doing, or if that's what this thread turns into, I hope the moderators will act appropriatly (and for that reason this post isn't going to Usenet, either).
I would like to see a mature discussion (not that I can or want to tell anyone what to do, hehehe). And for the record - this is not about me, or anyone I know personally, and I resent what these people are trying to do, but I'm still curious if they might get away with it.
Elaine
May 22nd 2004, 11:15 pm
#2
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Re: Interesting question, would like opinions/facts
"I am inclined to scream ILLEGAL!!! BUT it says on the visa waiver form that one CAN adjust from the visa waiver program IF married to a US spouse. It never says the marriage has to take place after entering, without intent etc... or does it?"
I have never seen a visa waiver form and surprised it says this. My understanding has always been that you cannot enter the US with the intent to immigrate on a visitors visa - period. Does not matter what your marital status/or to who you're married.
I am currently going through a varient of this - married 3 years to a LPR.Currently visiting the US a a tourist (from Canada). It is likely his citizenship will come through during my legal visit. My intent has always been to immigrate but not until legally able, I still own a home in Canada and have ties. We are now wondering if we are able to adjust staus based on his change to USC and if this is enough to justify my change in intent. Our waiting time has been soooo long.
I have never seen a visa waiver form and surprised it says this. My understanding has always been that you cannot enter the US with the intent to immigrate on a visitors visa - period. Does not matter what your marital status/or to who you're married.
I am currently going through a varient of this - married 3 years to a LPR.Currently visiting the US a a tourist (from Canada). It is likely his citizenship will come through during my legal visit. My intent has always been to immigrate but not until legally able, I still own a home in Canada and have ties. We are now wondering if we are able to adjust staus based on his change to USC and if this is enough to justify my change in intent. Our waiting time has been soooo long.
May 23rd 2004, 9:06 am
#3
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Re: Interesting question, would like opinions/facts
Hello
It is possible to be eligible to apply for AOS from the visa waiver but only if you are an immediate relative of a US citizen. Here is the link.
http://uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/LPReligibility.htm
I think as long as they entered legally it seems possible. It doesn't mention intent I don't think but that might be where they slip up.
Maggie
It is possible to be eligible to apply for AOS from the visa waiver but only if you are an immediate relative of a US citizen. Here is the link.
http://uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/LPReligibility.htm
I think as long as they entered legally it seems possible. It doesn't mention intent I don't think but that might be where they slip up.
Maggie
Originally posted by HunterGreen
I'm so darned curious I just HAVE to post this question here.
There's this case of someone already married to a USC, who entered the US (already married) under the VWP with the intent to stay and adjust status. I do not know what they said at the POE.
Now 'we all know' this:
Enter with no plan to marry but do: solvable
Enter with plan to marry and leave: no essential problem
Enter with plan to marry and stay/AOS: illegal intent at entry
(Copied from a post by Meauxna, because she summed it up so nicely, thank you M).
So what happens in this case?
Enter already married with plan to stay/AOS
I am inclined to scream ILLEGAL!!! BUT it says on the visa waiver form that one CAN adjust from the visa waiver program IF married to a US spouse. It never says the marriage has to take place after entering, without intent etc... or does it?
I am NOT trying to bring to the attention any loopholes in the system, and if that's what I'm unknowingly doing, or if that's what this thread turns into, I hope the moderators will act appropriatly (and for that reason this post isn't going to Usenet, either).
I would like to see a mature discussion (not that I can or want to tell anyone what to do, hehehe). And for the record - this is not about me, or anyone I know personally, and I resent what these people are trying to do, but I'm still curious if they might get away with it.
Elaine
I'm so darned curious I just HAVE to post this question here.
There's this case of someone already married to a USC, who entered the US (already married) under the VWP with the intent to stay and adjust status. I do not know what they said at the POE.
Now 'we all know' this:
Enter with no plan to marry but do: solvable
Enter with plan to marry and leave: no essential problem
Enter with plan to marry and stay/AOS: illegal intent at entry
(Copied from a post by Meauxna, because she summed it up so nicely, thank you M
).So what happens in this case?
Enter already married with plan to stay/AOS
I am inclined to scream ILLEGAL!!! BUT it says on the visa waiver form that one CAN adjust from the visa waiver program IF married to a US spouse. It never says the marriage has to take place after entering, without intent etc... or does it?
I am NOT trying to bring to the attention any loopholes in the system, and if that's what I'm unknowingly doing, or if that's what this thread turns into, I hope the moderators will act appropriatly (and for that reason this post isn't going to Usenet, either).
I would like to see a mature discussion (not that I can or want to tell anyone what to do, hehehe). And for the record - this is not about me, or anyone I know personally, and I resent what these people are trying to do, but I'm still curious if they might get away with it.
Elaine
May 24th 2004, 6:05 am
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Re: Interesting question, would like opinions/facts
Originally posted by Maggs
I think as long as they entered legally it seems possible.
Maggie
I think as long as they entered legally it seems possible.
Maggie
I am wondering though what the person in this case answered the inspecting officer at their POE when (s)he asked the purpose of their visit. That would be crucial I think... but I cannot imagine they did this without lying. On my numerous visa waiver visits I've always been asked about the purpose of my trip and/or when I was leaving again. I'm still awaiting an answer on that one.
Elaine
May 24th 2004, 6:16 am
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Re: Interesting question, would like opinions/facts
Kind of a good topic Elaine. Pisses me off something horrible to think that there are those who take advantage of this, when we've gone through the heart-rending pain of separation and the pocketbook pain of doing this the right way. But such is life..<sigh>
I've often wondered how they do this too. I think that intention at the POE must enter it somewhere, because I thought the IO at the POE types the purpose of your visit into the computer when you give it to them? Then USCIS has a way of tracking down what you said and see if you were lying.
I found it ironic last week when we were filling out the I-485, and we were reading over the instructions for it. It clearly states that visitors who entered under the VWP are ineligible to Adjust Status, UNLESS you are an immediate relative of a USC (parent, spouse, child, widow(er) ). I told my hubby that if only they deleted the last half of that sentence, there would be no loopholes, and I think would create less paperwork and hassles - not to mention make it fair for everyone else.
I've often wondered how they do this too. I think that intention at the POE must enter it somewhere, because I thought the IO at the POE types the purpose of your visit into the computer when you give it to them? Then USCIS has a way of tracking down what you said and see if you were lying.
I found it ironic last week when we were filling out the I-485, and we were reading over the instructions for it. It clearly states that visitors who entered under the VWP are ineligible to Adjust Status, UNLESS you are an immediate relative of a USC (parent, spouse, child, widow(er) ). I told my hubby that if only they deleted the last half of that sentence, there would be no loopholes, and I think would create less paperwork and hassles - not to mention make it fair for everyone else.
May 24th 2004, 7:24 am
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Re: Interesting question, would like opinions/facts
Originally posted by sunflwrgrl13
I found it ironic last week when we were filling out the I-485, and we were reading over the instructions for it. It clearly states that visitors who entered under the VWP are ineligible to Adjust Status, UNLESS you are an immediate relative of a USC (parent, spouse, child, widow(er) ).
I found it ironic last week when we were filling out the I-485, and we were reading over the instructions for it. It clearly states that visitors who entered under the VWP are ineligible to Adjust Status, UNLESS you are an immediate relative of a USC (parent, spouse, child, widow(er) ).
May 24th 2004, 7:35 am
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Re: Interesting question, would like opinions/facts
Originally posted by Ranjini
I think what they are talking about here, are the people who marry "spur of the moment" and they stay on to adjust.
I think what they are talking about here, are the people who marry "spur of the moment" and they stay on to adjust.
I THINK so too. But I've searched all over the net for a base for these thoughts and didn't find it... that's why I posted here, hoping someone else knows more about this.
ETA: I started searching because I was all set to tell these people they're in deep shit, and wanted to found my opinion with facts. Much to my horror I wasn't able to find the facts... where are they at???
Elaine
Last edited by HunterGreen; May 24th 2004 at 7:39 am.
May 24th 2004, 8:14 am
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Re: Interesting question, would like opinions/facts
Originally posted by sunflwrgrl13
It clearly states that visitors who entered under the VWP are ineligible to Adjust Status, UNLESS you are an immediate relative of a USC (parent, spouse, child, widow(er) )
It clearly states that visitors who entered under the VWP are ineligible to Adjust Status, UNLESS you are an immediate relative of a USC (parent, spouse, child, widow(er) )
May 24th 2004, 8:23 am
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Re: Interesting question, would like opinions/facts
Originally posted by sunflwrgrl13
Kind of a good topic Elaine. Pisses me off something horrible to think that there are those who take advantage of this, when we've gone through the heart-rending pain of separation and the pocketbook pain of doing this the right way. But such is life..<sigh>
I've often wondered how they do this too. I think that intention at the POE must enter it somewhere, because I thought the IO at the POE types the purpose of your visit into the computer when you give it to them? Then USCIS has a way of tracking down what you said and see if you were lying.
I found it ironic last week when we were filling out the I-485, and we were reading over the instructions for it. It clearly states that visitors who entered under the VWP are ineligible to Adjust Status, UNLESS you are an immediate relative of a USC (parent, spouse, child, widow(er) ). I told my hubby that if only they deleted the last half of that sentence, there would be no loopholes, and I think would create less paperwork and hassles - not to mention make it fair for everyone else.
Kind of a good topic Elaine. Pisses me off something horrible to think that there are those who take advantage of this, when we've gone through the heart-rending pain of separation and the pocketbook pain of doing this the right way. But such is life..<sigh>
I've often wondered how they do this too. I think that intention at the POE must enter it somewhere, because I thought the IO at the POE types the purpose of your visit into the computer when you give it to them? Then USCIS has a way of tracking down what you said and see if you were lying.
I found it ironic last week when we were filling out the I-485, and we were reading over the instructions for it. It clearly states that visitors who entered under the VWP are ineligible to Adjust Status, UNLESS you are an immediate relative of a USC (parent, spouse, child, widow(er) ). I told my hubby that if only they deleted the last half of that sentence, there would be no loopholes, and I think would create less paperwork and hassles - not to mention make it fair for everyone else.
RIGHT ON JAMIE!
As for you Elaine.. This is a very tricky question (to me) for a Monday!!!
May 24th 2004, 8:25 am
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Re: Interesting question, would like opinions/facts
Originally posted by HunterGreen
Ranjini, why do you think that? Where does it say? Where do you base your thoughts on?
I THINK so too. But I've searched all over the net for a base for these thoughts and didn't find it... that's why I posted here, hoping someone else knows more about this.
ETA: I started searching because I was all set to tell these people they're in deep shit, and wanted to found my opinion with facts. Much to my horror I wasn't able to find the facts... where are they at???
Elaine
Ranjini, why do you think that? Where does it say? Where do you base your thoughts on?
I THINK so too. But I've searched all over the net for a base for these thoughts and didn't find it... that's why I posted here, hoping someone else knows more about this.
ETA: I started searching because I was all set to tell these people they're in deep shit, and wanted to found my opinion with facts. Much to my horror I wasn't able to find the facts... where are they at???
Elaine
I'm not able to point you to any sources as I have come by my knowledge just taking part in extensive discussions on the subject on this forum. Search the archives you should come with some very interesting threads on the subject. A search on"ten foot pole" might be a good start
May 24th 2004, 8:29 am
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Re: Interesting question, would like opinions/facts
Originally posted by Ranjini
There have been couples on this forum who have done just that, married "spur of the moment" and successfully adjusted status with no problem. However, to enter the US using the visa waiver program/tourist visa with the pre-conceived intent to marry and adjust status is in itself illegal.
I'm not able to point you to any sources as I have come by my knowledge just taking part in extensive discussions on the subject on this forum. Search the archives you should come with some very interesting threads on the subject. A search on"ten foot pole" might be a good start
There have been couples on this forum who have done just that, married "spur of the moment" and successfully adjusted status with no problem. However, to enter the US using the visa waiver program/tourist visa with the pre-conceived intent to marry and adjust status is in itself illegal.
I'm not able to point you to any sources as I have come by my knowledge just taking part in extensive discussions on the subject on this forum. Search the archives you should come with some very interesting threads on the subject. A search on"ten foot pole" might be a good start
But the couple Elaine is talking about was already married BEFORE she/he entered the US under the VWP, It should be a different scenario.
May 24th 2004, 8:34 am
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Re: Interesting question, would like opinions/facts
"Everybody else"? I have news for you - this is what "everyone else" does - AOS from some other status after marriage. Very few people go through the "long and painfuul" K1/K3 process - only about 10% of all spousal immigrants to the US.
That's what I thought, too (as much as I hate it - it just feels like using a back door when everybody else is going through long and painful processing).
May 24th 2004, 8:34 am
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Re: Interesting question, would like opinions/facts
Originally posted by HunterGreen
Ranjini, why do you think that? Where does it say? Where do you base your thoughts on?
I THINK so too. But I've searched all over the net for a base for these thoughts and didn't find it... that's why I posted here, hoping someone else knows more about this.
ETA: I started searching because I was all set to tell these people they're in deep shit, and wanted to found my opinion with facts. Much to my horror I wasn't able to find the facts... where are they at???
Elaine
Ranjini, why do you think that? Where does it say? Where do you base your thoughts on?
I THINK so too. But I've searched all over the net for a base for these thoughts and didn't find it... that's why I posted here, hoping someone else knows more about this.
ETA: I started searching because I was all set to tell these people they're in deep shit, and wanted to found my opinion with facts. Much to my horror I wasn't able to find the facts... where are they at???
Elaine
Because the attorneys here told us that. They said if you entered the POE with no intention of getting married and then married and remained you are fine. If, however, you entered the US with the thought that you were going to ask her to marry you and if she said yes and you got married then you might be accused of committing fraud at the POE because you didn't tell the examining officer that you thought about committing such an act. The thought apparently is as serious as a crime as actually knowingly and wantonly entering the US when you know that you are going to get married and stay.
Rete
May 24th 2004, 8:37 am
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Re: Interesting question, would like opinions/facts
Originally posted by Hypertweeky
But the couple Elaine is talking about was already married BEFORE she/he entered the US under the VWP, It should be a different scenario.
But the couple Elaine is talking about was already married BEFORE she/he entered the US under the VWP, It should be a different scenario.
Yes and no. Look for the Pies from SC. He is from Scotland and her from the US. He entered the US after I-130 was pending at the SC with his wife and stepson and remained and successfully adjusted status, no questions asked.
Rete
It is a crap shoot in my opinion.
May 24th 2004, 8:39 am
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Re: Interesting question, would like opinions/facts
Ranjini, I know all this.
And just like you, I based my thoughts on years of hanging around on this forum and the former Doc Steen message board.
But now I went looking for cold hard facts, and I can't find them anywhere. And I want them. I want those sources!
At this point, only (well, mainly) because it annoys the hell out of me if I can't find an answer to something I want to know. (Yes, I drive myself crazy sometimes). Believe me, I have searched the archives, I've searched everywhere, I haven't found.
That is.... I think the answer may be hiding somewhere within the text on this link - http://tinyurl.com/29asz but good heavens, I can't get through that! I'm going to try though.
Tweeks... it's a tricky question even on a Friday I think...
Elaine
And just like you, I based my thoughts on years of hanging around on this forum and the former Doc Steen message board.
But now I went looking for cold hard facts, and I can't find them anywhere. And I want them. I want those sources!
At this point, only (well, mainly) because it annoys the hell out of me if I can't find an answer to something I want to know. (Yes, I drive myself crazy sometimes
). Believe me, I have searched the archives, I've searched everywhere, I haven't found. That is.... I think the answer may be hiding somewhere within the text on this link - http://tinyurl.com/29asz but good heavens, I can't get through that! I'm going to try though.
Tweeks... it's a tricky question even on a Friday I think...
Elaine
Originally posted by Ranjini
There have been couples on this forum who have done just that, married "spur of the moment" and successfully adjusted status with no problem. However, to enter the US using the visa waiver program/tourist visa with the pre-conceived intent to marry and adjust status is in itself illegal.
I'm not able to point you to any sources as I have come by my knowledge just taking part in extensive discussions on the subject on this forum. Search the archives you should come with some very interesting threads on the subject. A search on"ten foot pole" might be a good start
There have been couples on this forum who have done just that, married "spur of the moment" and successfully adjusted status with no problem. However, to enter the US using the visa waiver program/tourist visa with the pre-conceived intent to marry and adjust status is in itself illegal.
I'm not able to point you to any sources as I have come by my knowledge just taking part in extensive discussions on the subject on this forum. Search the archives you should come with some very interesting threads on the subject. A search on"ten foot pole" might be a good start
