S.M.

Interesting article, with the INS having no-one on duty Memorial day weekend.

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/49166.htm

Rete

Read it already on the train. Interesting but not surprising for those of us who have to use the NYC INS. There aren't many INS workers down there that would go one inch over the boundary of their job description. And as for phone numbers for anyone in INS, that is like trying to get the private number of the Mayflower Madam if your income was under 6 figures.

R

S.M.

I think its crazy that after every that has happened, with 9/11 and all that, that
there were no INS agents around. How are you going to stop illegal immigrants if you
aren't even bothered to deal with them.

Mhaley12345

Heard about it on a radio program today; a former INS worker called in and wasn't
surprised. Another caller called in and asked why didn't they just take them to the
airport and turn them over to the INS agents there. INS worker said they would
probably come up with the excuse of not having the facilities, etc. Still, would have
been a possibility perhaps. Sad situation all around.

Falx Cerebri

I don't understand. I know people whose income is 6 figures and they don't have
any better access to INS than any one else. Can you tell me how you come up with
this idesa ?

Thanks Rete <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Read it already on the train. Interesting but not surprising for those of us who
    > have to use the NYC INS. There aren't many INS workers down there that would go one
    > inch over the boundary of their job description. And as for phone numbers for
    > anyone in INS, that is like trying to get the private number of the Mayflower Madam
    > if your income was under 6 figures.
    >
    > R
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    >
    >
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Falx Cerebri

I guess I didnt read your post correctly. My mistake

Rete <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Read it already on the train. Interesting but not surprising for those of us who
    > have to use the NYC INS. There aren't many INS workers down there that would go one
    > inch over the boundary of their job description. And as for phone numbers for
    > anyone in INS, that is like trying to get the private number of the Mayflower Madam
    > if your income was under 6 figures.
    >
    > R
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    >
    >
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Betastar

On Thu, 30 May 2002 13:47:12 +0100, "S.M." <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Interesting article, with the INS having no-one on duty Memorial day weekend.
    >
    >http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/49166.htm
    >

And I thought I couldn't be surprised, shocked, horrified by the INS anymore.

There goes that thought!

Betastar

Mrtravel

I don't understand.. They admitted being in the country illegally, but the police
couldn't hold them until they could contact INS. What about the FBI? What about all
those people that were held for questioning? What about the ability to hold non
citizens for 7 days without an attorney if suspected of being possible terrorists?

However, whether or not they were possible terrorist is as likely as they were some
other kind of criminal. Let's see, undocumented workers in an unlicensed or
improperly marked vehicle.. Oh yeah, must be terrorists........ They should take a
look at California or the other Mexican border states. Come on, if they were
terrorist, they could have just rented a Ryder truck. After all, there is
precendent for that.

"S.M." wrote:
    >
    > Interesting article, with the INS having no-one on duty Memorial day weekend.
    >
    > http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/49166.htm

Falx Cerebri

It's blows my mind how incompetent and inept our gummermint is in dealing with the
whole situation. FBI should have prevented 9-11. They had enough evidence. I don't
even want to think about what could happen next if the terrorists were to take
advantage of one of these weaknesses.

mrtravel <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > I don't understand.. They admitted being in the country illegally, but the police
    > couldn't hold them until they could contact INS. What about the FBI? What about all
    > those people that were held for questioning? What about the ability to hold non
    > citizens for 7 days without an attorney if suspected of being possible terrorists?
    >
    > However, whether or not they were possible terrorist is as likely as they were some
    > other kind of criminal. Let's see, undocumented workers in an unlicensed or
    > improperly marked vehicle.. Oh yeah, must be terrorists........ They should take a
    > look at California or the other Mexican border states. Come on, if they were
    > terrorist, they could have just rented a Ryder truck. After all, there is
    > precendent for that.
    >
    > "S.M." wrote:
    > >
    > > Interesting article, with the INS having no-one on duty Memorial day weekend.
    > >
    > > http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/49166.htm

Dave And Emily

Falx Cerebri wrote news:hqFJ8.67869$Bo3.5643767@e3500- atl2.usenetserver.com:

    >FBI should have prevented 9-11.

As the saying goes: Hindsight is always 20-20. Blaming the government now (although
an attractive option) is easy, but unproductive. It won't bring back the people who
died on September 11th. Dave.

Andrew Defaria

Dave and Emily wrote:

    > Falx Cerebri wrote news:hqFJ8.67869$Bo3.5643767@e3500- atl2.usenetserver.com:
    >
    >> FBI should have prevented 9-11.
    >
    > As the saying goes: Hindsight is always 20-20. Blaming the government now (although
    > an attractive option) is easy, but unproductive. It won't bring back the people who
    > died on September 11th. Dave.

No but it just might help prevent such things from happening again. Of course,
perhaps you do not find such an endeavor worthwhile but many of us do. It is,
ultimately, one of the government's prime objectives and responsibility and it is
again, ultimately, their fault. And this says nothing about the bumbling job the FBI
has been doing and has done. They do not appear to be much better than the INS (and
that surely isn't saying much).

So I'm confused as to what your statement is trying to do. Should we instead praise
them? Should we instead simply "let by gones be by gones" and hold them blameless?
What would you have us do?

Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta
http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title>
</head> <body> Dave and Emily wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="midXns921F6A8579484davelamb68hotmailcom@209. 249.90.101">Falx Cerebri wrote <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:hqFJ8.67869$Bo3.5643767@e3500">news:hqFJ8.6-
7869$Bo3.5643767@e3500</a>-<br> atl2.usenetserver.com:<br> <br> <blockquote
type="cite">FBI should have prevented 9-11.<br> </blockquote> <!TEST->As the saying
goes: Hindsight is always 20-20. Blaming the government now (although an attractive
option) is easy, but unproductive. It won't bring back the people who died on
September 11th.<br> Dave.<br> </blockquote> No but it just might help prevent such
things from happening again. Of course, perhaps you do not find such an endeavor
worthwhile but many of us do. It is, ultimately, one of the government's prime
objectives and responsibility and it is again, ultimately, their fault. And this says
nothing about the bumbling job the FBI has been doing and has done. They do not
appear to be much better than the INS (and that surely isn't saying much). <br> <br>
So I'm confused as to what your statement is trying to do. Should we instead praise
them? Should we instead simply "let by gones be by gones" and hold them blameless?
What would you have us do?<br> </body> </html

Mrtravel

Dave and Emily wrote:
    >
    > Falx Cerebri wrote news:hqFJ8.67869$Bo3.5643767@e3500- atl2.usenetserver.com:
    >
    > >FBI should have prevented 9-11.
    >
    > As the saying goes: Hindsight is always 20-20. Blaming the government now (although
    > an attractive option) is easy, but unproductive. It won't bring back the people who
    > died on September 11th. Dave.

Agreed. It is like striking out because someone pitched a curve ball and hearing
people say "I could have hit that". After all, they have had more time to think about
what they saw. There are plenty of these 20/20 hindsight posts on rec.travel.air.
Sure, it is easy to go and put the pieces together AFTER the event, because you know
they might be related to the event. It's not like there was a letter saying: "On
September 11, we are going to hijack AA flights xx, xx, and xx, and UA flights xx,xx,
and xx. Then, we are going to crash two of them into the WTC, one into the Pentagon,
one into the Capitol building, one into the White House, and one into WDW."

Back to the original article... It describes these men as "a suspicious gang ". I
am still wondering why the police "had" to free them rather than waiting for INS to
be open. The article went on to say the contact number was answered in VT, 300
miles away.. BIG DEAL... that doesn't mean that person doesn't have the ability to
get assistance. I also don't see why the 4 with valid id couldn't be released..
After all, what actual crime did they commit? If they had been white, their
immigration status would not have been in question. If the others had phony
documents, then the police could have held them. After all, isn't possession of
fake documents a crime in NY?

Dave And Emily

Andrew DeFaria wrote news:[email protected]:

    > No but it just might help prevent such things from happening again. Of course,
    > perhaps you do not find such an endeavor worthwhile but many of us do. It is,
    > ultimately, one of the government's prime objectives and responsibility and it is
    > again, ultimately, their fault. And this says nothing about the bumbling job the
    > FBI has been doing and has done. They do not appear to be much better than the INS
    > (and that surely isn't saying much).
    >
    > So I'm confused as to what your statement is trying to do. Should we instead praise
    > them? Should we instead simply "let by gones be by gones" and hold them blameless?
    > What would you have us do?
    >

Did I say that? I don't recall doing so. Nor did I imply it. You chose to be confused
by my post, I think.

The Office of Homeland Security bears the responsibility of reducing the likelihood
of similar attacks. I'm not debating that the FBI/CIA/whoever has done a poor job of
predicting and preventing terrorist attacks - that much is obvious. All I'm saying is
that to throw mud around now is akin to what I understand is called 'Monday-morning
quarterbacking'. It serves no purpose whatsoever.

And let's not try to delude ourselves that terrorist attacks such as those that took
place in September are completely preventable. I come from a country - the United
Kingdom - where the threat of terrorist attacks are a way of life, particularly for
members of the military and security services.

It is simply impossible to prevent all terrorism, and to think otherwise is to have
one's head in the clouds. And before you reply to that, I am NOT implying that you
have your head in the clouds - I'm quite sure you're a sensible reasoning adult.

Rete

I believe the law says you are allowed to hold a suspected criminal for 48 hours before having to press charges. On what grounds did the police of NYC have to hold these men? Being a passenger in a van is not a criminal offense. Carrying false documents is not a criminal offense. Using those documents as identification is. But do we know if anyone of them attempted to identify themselves with fraudulent documents? As for INS, you had only to watch the last episode of Law and Order last Wednesday and you would have seen the televised version of how the INS and the FBI work so well together NOT!

As for preventing 9/11, how do you propose we could have done that? Yes we could have denied them F-1's. Yes we could have halted all air travel for the month of September if we weren't sure of the expected date of their suicide mission. Yes we could have an immigration system in place that works and tracks foreigners on and to our soil. But really, now, are any of options viable? Think not. A foreigner comes into the US with a round trip ticket. How are you going to know that they will leave when they say they will? Do you want a police state where your home can be searched for illegal immigrants who overstayed their visas? Are you going to go into the fields and arrest the migrant workers and let the lettuce rot on the ground?

Are you going to issue unremoval tracking bracelets on all foreigners entering the US? Are you going to strip search all flight passengers and go through each and every piece of luggage? Are you going to want psycological testing of all passengers who buy an airline ticket? Are you going to do a complete family history of all passengers going back three generations to weed out the mentally infirm or religious zealots?

As for 9/11, once again who is smart enough to take each and every little thread and weave it to make a wool sweater? We can't do it now on 5/31 and we are looking for those threads. What do you really really think we could have done on 9/10 to prevent 9/11's attacks?

Let me know folks. I lost someone in that attack. Linda Tennyson whose body was never discovered. She was seen leaving the north building with a head wound. She was never seen again. I would like to help prevent another attack so someone else will not be missing a friend like I and thousands of others am.


R

Michael Voight

Rete wrote:
    >
    > I believe the law says you are allowed to hold a suspected criminal for 48 hours
    > before having to press charges. On what grounds did the police of NYC have to hold
    > these men? Being a passenger in a van is not a criminal offense. Carrying false
    > documents is not a criminal offense. Using those documents as identification is.

Possession of false documents isn't a crime????