Folinskyinla

Hi:

I don't know how many of you have been following the string on "GC with Childsupport Enforcement" -- but it got me thinking that a lot of you may like to know how the lawyers here might view things.

There are three California lawyers who regularly participate here, two of whom are wonderful. You've got Matt Udall, rock musician, home brew guy and marriage visa lawyer extraordinaire. Then there is Dekka's Angel from the San Francisco Bay area who is NOT an immigration lawyer but has gone through the process of bringing over her beloved Dekkie. [Angel: I've learned to love and respect you and I will tell Dekkie that he is a very lucky man who will never have a dull moment ever again in his life].

Oh, yes, and then there is yours truly.

All three of us tend to show strong feelings and opinions on this NG -- and beleive me -- you don't see half of it -- our professional training includes the ability to say "Thank you, your Honor" when your mind is screaming epithets at full volume].


Do you ever wonder why lawyer types get these strong feelings? In my opinion, and the observations of the posting on the NG -- it comes from the experience of practicing our professions.

Quite often, we are invovled when the brown material hits the fan -- and the lawyers get hired to use their professional shovels to help clean up the mess. And we tend to see the messes all the time.

We may make a living at this, but we try to help people -- there is a satisfaction in doing this that can't be quantified. And it bothers us when we see people get into problems that could have been easily avoided.

So, although we may get strident at times - there is a reason for that.

Dad of 3

I had not been following the GC with Child Support Enforcement string until I read the first post in this topic. As many of you know, I am also an attorney yet I DO NOT practice immigration law. My very limited knowledge of immigration issues is based upon my personal experiences with the K1 process in 2000 and my 2003 filing a K3 for my current wife.

I have spent seven of the last nine years paracticing solely in the areas of child support, child abuse/neglect, child custody, and other child related issues in two different states. I am one of those who wanted to practice this kind of law because I have a passion for the rights and protection of children. Child support is a right of the CHILD...not the custodial parent.

I have worked within the "system" and have seen first hand what can happen to a child and a family when one parent (usually the father) chooses not to live up to his financial and parenting responsibilities to a child. Often the result is forced poverty for the child(ren) and families, along with serious and long term emotional and sociological problems.

When the result is financial devestation for the family, the taxpayers of the state must then pick up the tab (via public assistance) to ensure the child's and family's boarderline survival. When the absent parent is finally brougt into court to force compliance with his/her legal obligations, the state may be able to recover some of the public assistance funds yet no one can force a parent to follow through on their moral or ethcial obligations to a child who was born as a result of the parent's voluntary actions.

Having an arrest warrant issued for non payment of child support is not an easy accomplishment. As I have seen it done, a warrant is issued as a result of a parent's non payment over a prolonged period of time. After an arrearage has accumulatd, the non compliant parent is required to appear in Court based on an Order to Show Cause or a Motion for Contempt. A judge can not find a parent in contempt (and thereby issue an arrest warrant) unless the judge makes a factual determination that the non compliant parent is in willful disregard of the court's order. That translates into the non compliant parent having the current ability to comply but choosing not to. It does not happen overnight, and many judges that I see give a parent at least one or two chances to "redeem" themselves prior to putting a parent in jail.

I have children. The idea of not only providing support for my children to their mother (even though they live with each of us 50% of the time) is UNTHINKABLE. The thought of my choosing to be uninvolved in their day to day life has NEVER crossed my mind. That is why I have little time or sympathy for any one who finds themselves in the position of facing jail time for non payment of support. It is truly a rare case where a parent wants to meet support obligations but truly can not because of circumstances beyond his/her control. If anything, I belive that immigration and other government benefits (student loans, grants, SBA loans, government employment, and travel outside the US to name a few) should denied to anyone who is a "deadbeat parent." Children never have a choice whether they are brought into this world, therefore a parent should never have a choice about supporting the child to whom they choose to give life.

I agree with my learned colleague from California, most lawyers do what they do not only to earn a living, but also because of the drive to help other people...especially those who would be lost but for the services of a legal professional.

Perhaps some attorney's comments may appear to be too brash or unfeeling......but often, the comments are as a result of that attorney's experiences in the day to day world of working with all kinds of people and issues and there simply is no other way to get the message across.

I am thankful for those immigration attornies who continually share of their time and knowledge to participate in these kinds of discussions and offer what amounts to "free legal advice." To Mr. Udall and Mr. F.....I am sure the advice you post helps more people than you will ever realize.

Andrew Defaria

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">
<title></title>
</head>
<body>
Dad of 3 wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="[email protected]">I
agree with my learned colleague from California, most lawyers do what
they do not only to earn a living, but also because of the drive to
help other people...especially those who would be lost but for the
services of a legal professional.<br>
</blockquote>
Haven't had to have dealt with and hire more lawyers in the last few
years than my entire life I would have to disagree. If I had come in
contact with lawyers who do indeed exhibit a true <b>drive</b> or
passion then I would agree with you. However I have not. All of them
were difficult to impossible to get a hold of to ask for advice or
progress/status report. Often their advice proved faulty or I see
obvious mistakes in their work, anywhere from pure sloppy language
skills to sloppy research/advice to sloppy billing procedures. Rather
than take up the client's case or cause, believe in them and their
story, they need to be convinced that you indeed have a point worth
fighting for, then after that need to be pushed and prodded along to
actual advocate for you! To me this doesn't represent somebody with a
"drive to help other people", unless, of course, that "other person"
happens to be their own wallet. They take what you requested to do and
turn it around such that you need to correct them (I have to do this
again). But hey, when it comes down to collecting money and/or possibly
making more they seems to be very attentive and driven.<br>
<br>
Now I hate to bemoan lawyers like so many people do. I realize that
they are asked to come in when things are screwed up and the client is
obviously not in a good mood and in general I have a lot of respect for
the profession. However I have been constantly dismayed by the
practioners that I have met so far. Now perhaps you and the other
lawyers here are different but the more I come in contact with and
retain lawyers the more it seems to me to prove itself that a vast
majority of them do not appear to have any drive whatsoever other than
making a living. Sorry.<br>
-- <br>
If croutons are stale bread, why do they come in airtight packages?<br>
</body>
</html>

Andrew Defaria

Folinskyinla wrote:

    > We may make a living at this, but we try to help people -- there is a
    > satisfaction in doing this that can't be quantified.

However we will endeavor to put a number ($$$) on it. Yeah getting paid
a bunch of money doesn't hurt either... ;-)

--
I went to a restaurant that serves "breakfast at any time". So I ordered
French Toast during the Renaissance.

Paulgani

"Dad of 3" <member@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > I am thankful for those immigration attornies who continually share of
    > their time and knowledge to participate in these kinds of discussions
    > and offer what amounts to "free legal advice." To Mr. Udall and Mr.
    > F.....I am sure the advice you post helps more people than you will
    > ever realize.

They post "legal information" not "legal advice". After all, they wouldn't
want to be creating attorney-client relationships, correct?

Paulgani

souls canuck

and I will be calling one tonight, and happy to hand over a few bucks for some expertise..and piece of mind.

this is a tricky thing we are all going thru

we all want the same results.

some cases are not as cut and dried..

you generous lawyers are offering up a free service here and people still complain that you are nit picky over a word or two.. I say take the advice and stop reading between the lines.. if you dont like what you read, then hire a lawyer and say thanks to the one who just might have saved your ass. chances are you are trying to do something that is not cut and dried and requires a little more care.

cindyabs

It doesn't hurt, granted, this is a capitalist society the last I knew. ....... However keeping in mind that they don't get paid for the time they spend on the boards, my hat's off to them and others like Michael D Young who do know whereof they speak and generously share with us.

Richard III

Andrew -

All lawyers are not created equal - try to find a GOOD one, then come back and tell us about it. I can go on day after day whining about "professionals" who have done me wrong, but I won't. I won't paint all lawyers, for example, with the same brush. It is up to you, as a consumer of legal services, to find an attorney who is QUALIFIED, and WILLING, to provide you with the advice and service you require. Caveat emptor. Don't try to make us think that all attorneys are rascals, I know too many good ones to buy it.

Richard III

PS - and another thing, lose the MIME coding, it's annoying. It is a configuration setting in your software - learn to use it.

<SNIP all the BS>

rogerpenycate

When I was going through the immigration process last year, I got myself in a right state.
In the end one of the lawyers on here reccomended a lawyer in London.
I paid 250 pounds for an hours consultation (and some follow-up calls and faxes)
It was the best 250 I ever spent.

Hebapotamus42

Richard,

I don't think he was actually complaining about lawyers (he did wink). there are good and bad in every profession. You have to go through their training in order to understand why attorneys' fees seem so high. I used to be quite critical of doctors' fees until I started "the process."

Hypertweeky

Out of the blue..

Does this mean we can all party together regardless of our Jobs???.. LOL
I am sorry guys! I am very nervous because Spain is playing against Norway within 30 minutes, It is a very important game!, Wish us luck!!

Richard III

Heba -

Someone is going to have to point it out to me, I have missed it (not the point, the winkie) the post is so full of MIME coding that I couldn't see it -

Richard III

jeffreyhy

souls,

I'll second this. It's the nit picking that we pay lawyers for, and like it or not we often need it done. In situations where they can provide this service gratis we should indeed be thanking them, not be complaining about it.

Regards, JEff

Hebapotamus42

Richard,

Note the end of the quote.

Richard III

Heba -

Good try, but I was responding to Andrews FIRST post in this thread - - you know, the one with all the MIME coding in it -

Richard III