randomgirl

Hi everyone

I posted the other day about having been to see a civil surgeon to get my vaccinations transcribed, and how they ended up doing a full medical examination instead. My original post is here.

So today I went back to have them look at my TB skin test, which they said came up positive. I had the BCG vaccine for TB about 13 years ago, which I told them on Monday, and because of this I was likely to test positive for it because I have antibodies to TB from the vaccine. So big surprise - it came up positive. The civil surgeon said I needed to have another chest x-ray, even though I had the one from my London medical with me. He said because it only has one view on it, it's not acceptable for immigration purposes. What is the flippin' point of having it in London, then? That was for US immigration purposes, for goodness' sake! I told him that if it wasn't absolutely necessary I didn't want to have another chest x-ray. He got really sarcastic with me and said that they can just send my forms in and see what happens - I told him not to threaten me like that! His tone was absolutely horrible.

Hubby and I told the civil surgeon that the full medical they carried out was not necessary as I entered the US on a K-1 visa, and my visa medical was done on June 15th of this year (5 months ago). If you read my post you'll see that I pointed this out multiple times on my first visit to the doctor on Monday, and he didn't give a crap.

I pulled out the instructions for completing form I-693 and I showed him the parts that I'd highlighted, which expressly state that K-1 visa holders do not need a full medical if they are filing for AOS within 12 months of their original medical. He started shouting at my hubby and I for pointing this out - he was really pissed off. He kept saying, "INS didn't send you a letter saying that you didn't need a full medical, you just pulled this off of the internet" (and yes, he calls it INS even though it's been USCIS for god knows how long now, which to be honest doesn't give me much faith!). He was all like, "you should have shown me this before" - yet during my initial visit, he refused to acknowledge anything to do with my previous medical, even the chest x-ray which was done to prove that I don't have TB! I mentioned that medical at least 3 or 4 times, to both the doctor and the nurse who saw me, and they didn't want to know. Why should it be up to me to tell him his job? If he's a civil surgeon and he has so much experience with all of this stuff, as he kept shouting at me about, then why doesn't he know what he's doing??

Unfortunately because they'd kept us waiting for 45 minutes my hubby had to go home as he had a phone meeting with his company (he works from home). The doctor kept shouting at me that he's here to serve me, and that he knows what he's doing because he's been doing it for 20 years. I asked him not to be so aggressive with me, and told him it really wasn't necessary. I pleaded with the doctor to please just listen to me for a minute, and to read the official instructions regarding I-693. He kept saying I'd just got it from the internet, so I said, "Yes, I got it from the USCIS website, that's the only real way to get their forms, and it's their official up-to-date instructions on completing the form - the fact it was on the internet doesn't invalidate it!".

He asked me if we have an attorney, to which I replied that we used one for the visa but we're not using one now. I don't know why he asked me that.

He just walked away from me and sent in one of the women to talk to me. To be honest by this point I was really upset and I couldn't help but cry.
To be fair to the woman I spoke to, she was actually very pleasant and explained that they do have to do the full medical because even though USCIS state that K-1 visa holders don't need one, apparently they then turn around and ask why these things weren't done and say it's incomplete. She gave the example of how under 2s are not required to have a TB skin test, but when they've done the forms for under 2s and not done the skin test USCIS have asked for it to be done. I can believe that in some ways, because a lot of the information they give you does seem to be inconsistent, but I don't believe the full medical was necessary for me. However, the doctor just completely disregarded all of the information on the instructions and said that what the instructions say are irrelevant.

So it was either do as they say, and have these 2 new chest x-rays at a cost of $65, or apparently there's a blood test they can do to test for TB but they would only do that if my reaction to the skin test was really severe (it wasn't) and it would cost twice the amount of the x-rays. Also she said the results take a week to come through. She asked if I wanted to have the x-rays, and I said "I don't have any choice do I?". So I had the x-rays, which I insisted the x-ray tech let me look at (I used to do his job so I do know what I'm looking at) and they both look fine, as did my original (surprise, surprise).

After the whole shoddy experience I tried to call hubby but he was still on the phone for work, so I started to walk home. I didn't have any cash with me or my debit card, so unless I wanted to wait at the doctor's office (I didn't!) I had to walk. I got approached by a dodgy guy on a push-bike at an intersection who asked me where I was going, like it's any of his business. Then he went in completely the opposite direction... what a freak!
I made it about 2.5 miles before hubby called and came to get me. I don't think I'll be doing the walking thing again, especially wearing flip-flops. I can see why people drive everywhere! On the plus side it's only 67ºF today in Phoenix... I wouldn't have walked in the middle of the summer, I'm not that crazy!

I have to go and collect my paperwork from the civil surgeon's office on Friday, unless they call us before then. They're just waiting on the report for my x-rays now.

Anyway, I don't know what to do now about this situation. Ian replied to my other post and said I should report the doctor to USCIS, the AMA and the state licensing board for subjecting me to unnecessary and expensive tests. Do you still think I should? I'm really upset by it all, especially the guy's disgusting attitude. On the one hand, I think so long as my AOS goes OK maybe I should just leave it, but I don't think he should be getting away with treating people like this. I wish my hubby hadn't had to leave, I felt really vulnerable after he'd gone. It's upsetting when you're in a strange place and you get treated so badly, and when someone is so arrogant and won't even listen to you. Surely a good doctor would make an effort to listen to his patient's concerns? All he did was shout at me and talk over me whenever I said anything. I also wonder what USCIS would make of him saying their official instructions are irrelevant! For a 'civil surgeon', you'd think he might try to be civil. Apparently not.

Anyway I'm sorry for the ridiculously long post. I'd appreciate any of your thoughts on this, it's always good to hear other opinions.

RG

Fingers crossed

Gosh that doesnt sound very civil! If you feel you have been mistreated you should report it - just like you would do in any other situation. Perhaps wait until you have got everything you think you might need from him though...(realise that 'need' is debatable in this situation)

randomgirl

Thank you, I will definitely wait until after I have that form in its sealed envelope before I do anything!

meauxna

randomgirl, I'm sorry you got so upset as to cry.
Remember, Ian also always says: Immigration is an Adventure!

The solution will depend on how much effort you want to put into it; unfortunately, there has been a lot of inconsistency in the way the K-1 AOS medicals are handled. The USCIS Ombudsman has looked into this, but had no answer back from CIS about it.

I will help you look up some of the contacts later on, but answer me one thing please. Were your vaccines *complete* at your visa medical? No additions to get once in the US?

I really believe that people need to start making noise about some of these 'bad' doctors but people also understandably just want to get everything over and done with (also known as 'not fighting City Hall') and don't want to hassle with it, so do whatever the Doc says and try to forget about it.
Not defending the doctor, but the last change to the immigration medical was/is confusing and I'm sure he thinks he is telling the truth.
Unfortunately, there is a lot of suspicion around people finding the answers for themselves, especially from 'the internet'.


PS: I would ask this doctor for a personal copy of the medical exam + report he puts into the sealed envelope.

Noorah101

Oh my, how awful. I probably would have just walked out of his office and gotten a different civil surgeon to do just the vaccination verifications elsewhere. You really did NOT need to go through all that again. Once your AOS is submitted, I think I would find a way to report him.

Rene

randomgirl

Thanks

Yep, all of my vaccinations were complete. At my visa medical I got the MMR shot, and that was the only one I needed. I didn't have to have any further vaccinations over here, the doctor said they're all fine.

I had chickenpox as a child, so I didn't need the varicella vaccine. On Monday I asked about whether I needed a flu shot, but he said it's only required if you're over 50 (I'm 26 so didn't need it).

RG

randomgirl

I was very tempted to walk out, believe me. But we'd already paid $180 on Monday, so I didn't really feel like that was an option. I'm not usually a pushover but I really felt like I was backed into a corner, especially after my hubby left (not that the doctor was any nicer to him, but at least I had him there with me).

I forgot to say in my original post that the woman I spoke to (don't know if she's a nurse or whatever) even whispered to me that "some guys just don't know how to talk to people" - referring to the doctor. It's good to know that she also thought he was unreasonable, not that it'll make any difference in the long-run.

RG

randomgirl

I wouldn't normally cry, but the whole experience was just horrible. Having worked in healthcare back in England, I couldn't believe how awful this guy's attitude was. I would never speak to one of my patients like that. (I'm not saying that everything's better over there, it clearly isn't, but none of my doctors ever treated me so badly before).

Maybe I'm a little touchy at the moment, I don't know...



That's my feeling - if nobody says anything, nothing will change. I don't want anyone else to go through this. At the same time, I don't want to cause myself or my AOS any trouble. A lot of my issue with this doctor is his attitude - even though I'm sure he blatantly disregarded the rules for what I actually needed to be done. I know that there's a lot to know regarding immigration medicals, and I wouldn't expect him to know every single rule, but when someone is telling you they had all of this done for their visa medical, and even tells you the date of that medical and proof of it, you'd think he might at least look into it. That's what I used to do if one of my patients told me they'd had this scan last week or whatever!

I have asked them to give me a disc with my x-rays on as I definitely do not want any further x-rays unless I'm actually ill! I will also ask for a copy of everything that goes into that envelope, because I don't want to go through all of this again if USCIS lose my stuff (it'd be just my luck, wouldn't it?!).

RG

jimandtina2008

Quote
I pulled out the instructions for completing form I-693 and I showed him the parts that I'd highlighted, which expressly state that K-1 visa holders do not need a full medical if they are filing for AOS within 12 months of their original medical. Quote

I can only imagine how you feel.....wanting to report his misconduct, for to me, that is exactly what this was....and not watning to cause any fuss that may delay your AOS.

I just got my AOS authorised (in Detroit) and received my Green Card a week or two ago and in the course of my AOS application I never once submitted any further medical information and was never queried about it. I'd had my medical in London in May this year, and although I didn't need them, my GP gave me all the vaccinations so that they were up to date and verified that I'd had Chicken Pox as a child so didn't require the Varicella vaccination. I really don't understand that this so called Cicil Surgeon is so out of touch with USCIS regulations..........it just seems that he's in it for the money only........

I hope everything else goes OK for you, it is stressful enough when things go right during this long arduous process without having to deal with a*******s like him.

Tina x

randomgirl

Thanks Tina, I'm glad people don't think I'm overreacting. I agree with you - as if it's not stressful enough! In my opinion, it's just not acceptable for someone in his position to treat people that way.

I think I'll wait until after I've got all my stuff back from their office, and then look into reporting the doctor to USCIS. I'm not sure anything will come of it, but it might make him think twice before he acts like that again.

Just a quick question - when you said you didn't submit any new medical information for your AOS, do you mean you didn't get form I-693 done? Did you see a civil surgeon to sign off your vaccinations? If not I kinda wish I hadn't bothered with all of this! LOL.

RG x

ian-mstm

As Meauxna correctly quoted, immigration is an adventure. But I still stand by my earlier comments about reporting him. Be sure to thoroughly document everything that has happened so far... write it down - names, dates, times, who said what, what happened next, etc. The more detailed, the better. Don't wait until 2 or 3 weeks or months pass to do this because it'll just be a blur by then... do it now, while it's still fresh in your mind.

Ian

randomgirl

Thanks Ian, I'll document everything as you suggest.

RG

jimandtina2008

No I did not do it, as you said, the instructions on the form stated that if you had taken a medical within 12 months it wasn't required to do it again, so I didn't. I just resent original info from Knightsbridge medical. Although I took EVERYTHING, even the printout of the instructions saying it wasn't required to the AOS Interview, just in case!!

randomgirl

Wow, I wish I hadn't bothered now! It would've saved us a lot of money and hassle - unless of course whoever looks at my AOS stuff decided that they wanted I-693 (I thought everyone had to submit this, regardless of which visa they entered on - just that the things required, e.g. a full medical, or just vaccination sign-off, was different depending on the visa type).

Well, it's done now!

RG

Rete

I'm with you, Rene. RG, I applaud our fight of the right in this matter. The doctor was completely wrong in his interpretion of the law and his nurse was just as clueless as he was.

I'm truly sorry you had to go through this as it was correctly unnecessary. In fact, I would say, if it were me, I would not include the test resuts with the the AOS paperwork but just send in the vaccination report.