CalgaryAMC

Yes, that is what they are most interested in.

It may be the case that the officers on the Canadian/Mexican borders are especially alert about this though because it's so incredibly common. You are probably only the 100,000,000,000,000,000,000th person to have thought about doing this.

CalgaryAMC

I rarely resort to profanity, but I have to call bullshit on this one. There is a complete misunderstanding about what the OP is attempting to do. The OP is attempting to enter Canada, surrender his I-94W and therefore abandon his status as a visa waiver visitor. He is not attempting to extend his visa waiver. There is a crucial distinction.

Under the misrepresentation of INA 217 and 8 CFR 217 posted above, it would logically follow that you could not travel to Canada and then ever travel back into the US without travelling to a third country first. This is patently false, as the hundreds of thousands who do just that every year are proof of. I have done it at least 30 times.

The question is not one of legality. The question is one of practicality. I would suggest that in practice the POE officer would be reluctant to re-admit the OP after a brief trip to Canada because it would be difficult to prove non-immigrant intent. But there is nothing in law that prevents the re-admittal.

Windza

Well thank you everyone for the helpful discussion, although I think the only sure thing we've established is that it will be a matter of chance and what the officer feels like on the day....I am going to give it a go and will post on here and let you know how it went...wish me luck ;-) Worst case is that they refuse me and I have to stay in Canada and apply for a visitors visa which is still ok by me (and probably what I should've done in the first place had I known I would have to go through this :-)...).....thanks again though, it really is appreciated....
Kind regards, Kim Windsor

CalgaryAMC

Bad move.

If you get denied entry you are in a pickle for future travel. You will have just made yourself ineligible for any future travel under the VWP, and it will be a headache for other immigration stuff you might want to do.

Think very carefully about it.

JubJub

He may be allowed to withdraw his entry attempt, and not have it considered as a denial. Especially if he is in Canada going thru pre-inspection at the Canadian airport. He can back out at anytime.

Main thing is to have a return ticket. I've done this once, flying into Toronto, and returning the next day. Only thing the Canadian immigration guy said upon arrival was why wasn't I returning the same day? So it must be extremely common.

During US inspection in Toronto the next day, I got a female CIS agent (they always seem to be the toughest), who wanted to know how I could stay overseas (away from Aus) for so long. I explained that my job allowed me to work from anywhere (and get paid back in Aus). She carefully examined my return ticket, and then really had no option but to grant me entry. After all I have always left on time during previous VW entries. I actually had more issues with the US customs agent who grilled me on why I only had a day's worth of clothes in my small bag. But once he went thru it and found nothing of threat he lightened up.

I certainly woudn't want to do it for example four times in a year, ie. spending 12 consecutive months in the US)

Ray

The VW was originally designed for use by short term visitors, mostly for people taking their 2/3 week vacation every summer, so reducing the amount of work involved in issueing visa's. Congress in it wisdom decided that the MAXIMUM period would be 90 days. The original intent was that would state the time they are visiting for and your Passport would be stamped accordingly...But with the pressures on time at the POE of entry It soon became a quick stamp for 90days...This will revert it is claimed when all the machine readle passports are available..
It was and is clearly stated that if you intend to stay longer than 90 days a B visa is required, Although there is no stated period one should be out of the country between visits, It is faily clear to all, that a few days will not cut it..of course many people have done it, and a lot have not...Having had the problem, but pre 911 I was lucky it was just a nice chat.. the rule explained, told to give it 180 days plus before I attempted it again, he said 90 days in 180 days out would seem reasonable.. and would therefore equal the amount allowed on a B-2..I was lucky and received no passport stamp....

This info below from an Immigration Lawyer
About 18 months ago, a memorandum was sent from USCIS headquarters to the field telling immigration officers that they were no longer to exercise discretion when dealing with people who violated immigration laws, no matter whether an error was minor or there was a reasonable excuse. That memo was sent in response to the news that the INS had granted visa extensions for a couple of the 9/11 terrorists AFTER 9/11. Obviously, that was a major embarassment. The Zero Tolerance memo had the intended effect and even though another memo recently went out that said officials could begin to exercise discretion again, officials still don't want to be testifying in front of Congress explaining why they did not enforce the laws on the books the next time a terrorist gets in. My point - if you don't maintain perfect compliance with the immigration laws, don't expect to be forgiven

CalgaryAMC

That's true. But he may not. And he is talking about driving so it is not a Canadian pre-inspection.

I wouldn't encourage gambling on this.

Ray: I disagree with you. I don't think there is anything in law that forbids what he is doing. He is not talking about overstaying and he is not talking about extending his visa waiver.

What he is doing, and this I will agree with you on, is flagrantly using the VWP in a way that was not intended (like thousands upon thousands of others) when the program was created. But that in itself is not illegal.

His issue is not a legal one - unless he gets denied entry, which then makes a legal mess for the future - his issue is simply convincing the POE officer of his non-immigrant intent.

If it were me I would not attempt what this fellow wants to do, because I wouldn't want to risk being denied entry. I think there are safer ways of doing what he wants to do. But I certainly wouldn't call his plan illegal.

JubJub

You will prob have more luck if you fly. If you live in Canada then it isn't a huge issue if you are stuck there. If you lived somewhere else and had a return flight departing from a US port you would have probs

Ray

That's ok..I don't mind people disagreeing with me or anybody...but I agree with you on you point that nothing is set in stone..but the 1996 act gave the POE officer tremendous powers to do basically anything they want, and its been made clear that the in out in with a visa waiver is a no no.. Hopefully the OP will make it...but it could be a very expensive mistake..

supernav

Go to mexico and get a border crossing card. Cross as many times as you like, stay as long as u want for years. Look into it.

-= nav =-

Windza

Well I told you that I'd keep everybody here informed, I ended up doing as I said I would and I'm now back in the states with another 90 days.....I travelled by car to Canada, stayed around Ontario for 8 days and then today I came back. I think maybe I was lucky, but I was just simply honest and told them I was coming back in to visit my g/f and that I hadn't planned to stay longer than 3 months originally, the guy at the gate (Peace Bridge, Fort Erie/Buffalo) said that I really wasn't supposed to do that but sent me inside anyway. The guy inside drilled me with questions and I guess he was trying to find any glitches in my story, but eventually he pulled out the green I-94 and started filling it out. So thanks again though to all who commented, and to other travellers attempting this I can't give you anything positive....I won't attempt to do it again and I certainly don't recommend trying it because it really is touch and go. If you try it...just act innocent as if you had no idea you didn't know you couldn't do it and be honest.
Kim

CalgaryAMC

Well done.

crg

Did you have a return airplane ticket with you when you reentered?

Windza

I made sure I had everything I thought they might ask for and that included confirmed (!!) flight itinerary and bank balances to prove I could support myself....the thing that worried me most was that I had a car in my g/f's name and US plates which suggested that I always intended to re-enter, everything was good otherwise..
:-)