Matthew Udall

The top portion measures how much time has gone by since someone's notice date. That is useless information when it comes to calculating an overdue date as the 150 to 180 day language is meaningless.

The bottom portion tells one how many days and months have elapsed since the date listed on the most recent NSC report. Again, this is useless information in calculating an overdue date.

It generally won't do any good to complain about a case taking too long unless its overdue as per the calculations the USCIS has told us to make using their reports. His calculator does not make "that" import calculation and feeds into the myth that the 150 and 180 day language actually has some sort of meaning.

No, and that is not what the bi-monthly reports are supposed to do. They don't guarantee that someone will be approved by that overdue date, but they do help someone calculate an overdue date based on "where the service center is at far as processing goes" so the petitioner can "then" make a complaint about an overdue case. No use contacting them (unless they have screwed up) before it becomes overdue.

I actually just went back and took another look at the calculator. I punched in my notice date being 03/09/04.

First, the calculator should ask someone to select their "notice" date, not received date. When it then calculates the dates that are 150 and 180 days into the future, it should also say, "these are not binding, are not enforceable, you cannot tell if an officer has your case by using these dates, and these are not realistic overdue dates. One should not contact the USCIS to complain based on this calculation as this calculation is absolutely meaningless".

It should then explain that the USCIS has come out with bi-monthly reports that one "can" use to determine 1) whether or not a case has likely been assigned to an officer yet (and it should mention IBIS and what triggers an IBIS hit so someone using the calculator but who has an arrest record will know they can't even use the reports to determine an overdue date), and 2) to determine an "overdue" date.

He has a statement saying that if one's notice date is later in time than the date listed on the bi-monthly report (he calls this a "backlog" date which is not accurate, it is the date of the last case moved off of the shelf and given to an officer for processing), than one should contact the NCSC and request a status check from your designated service center.

Sure, one can do this, but if the case is not yet overdue as per the bi-monthly report, than that is a waste of the NCSC'S time, the Service Centers time, and your time.

Instead, he should be teaching people how to use the date on the bi-monthly report to determine 1) whether or not the case has likely been given to an officer yet, and 2) an overdue date. He could then tell them to contact their rep or the NCSC if the case becomes overdue as per this calculation.

Hey, I'm not just making this stuff up out of thin air. This is how the USCIS themselves tell us how to calculate an overdue date!

Finally, at the bottom (and I just took another look and I now understand what he's doing at the bottom of the calculator) it lists the number of days according to the NSC backlog date (again, this is incorrect terminology as cases with that date are not yet "overdue") of 09/03/03, USCIS web updated 03/06/04. The calculator then lists the number of days according to the backlog: 161, and the number of months according to the backlog: 6

Knowing how many days have elapsed since the date listed on the last report is just as meaningless (as far as providing useful "overdue date" information is concerned) as basing calculations on the receipt notice language.

He's obviously updating his calculator with the processing report dates, so if he's a programmer and if he can understand how to make the calculation (and I've told him I'm willing to run over a few examples with him to show him how to do this) that actually means something (how to calculate an overdue date), now "that" might be worth doing.

What you do is once you see your notice date is later in time than the date listed for I-129f's on the last NSC report, than add 30 business days onto "the publication date" of that report (not the I-129f date listed on that report) that showed them working cases that have a notice date later than yours. 30 business days later (past the publication date) is the overdue date, and "that" is when the NCSC or rep should be contacted (because then, the case actually "is" overdue… but I'll bet most DIY'ers will notice their cases being approved, denied or RFE sent before they become overdue as per the reports).

It's really not that complicated, but his calculator right now as it stands does not make this important calculation that actually means something.

jeffreyhy

Hi Matt,

I understand your overdue calculation and I thought you might be interested to hear the variation on it that I was consistently given by each of the 4 different NCSC reps I spoke with when I was calling in January and early February (by which time I knew that my petition had been approved because the NVC told me so). The NCSC folks told me, "wait until the processing reports show that the SC is processing a date that is 30 days after your Notice Date. Your Notice Date is 10/6 2003, so you are not overdue until the SC is processing petitions dated after 11/6. I cannot initiate an inquiry for your case until then."

Maybe you should offer to give a training class.

Regards, JEff

Matthew Udall

Well, the NCSC had it sort of right, and the fact that they "sort" of get it right is pretty good for them in light of their dismal performance so far. At least what they told you shows that one can't base their overdue date based on the language on the receipt notice. They are wrong not to say its "business" days, and they are wrong about what date to base the 30 business day count. You start counting from the date of publication of the first report that shows they are now working cases with a notice date that is "later in time" than your date.

Interesting wrinkle is that if one's notice date is "exactly" the date listed on a given report, than one can "not" then count 30 business days from the date of publication of that report as they don't necessarily move each dates worth of cases off of the shelf when moving cases off of the shelf. For example, say your notice date is 02/02/04. A report shows the "last case moved off of the shelf" had a notice date of 02/02/04. That does not mean they moved "each and every" 02/02/04 case off of the shelf, but it does mean that the last case that "was" moved off of the shelf had a 02/02/04 notice date. There could still be some more 02/02/04 cases on the shelf, so one would really have to wait for the "next" report to come out, and if it then showed a notice date "later in time" to your notice date, than add 30 business days onto the date of publication of that next report (this is the sort of minutia that might be helpful to the programmer of the calculator if he actually wants to program something useful…. And if he does and it actually makes the proper calculation, I'll use it myself and tell my client's to use it to… as it is, I manually make the calculation with my calendar when I see a report shows the case is likely with an officer and I then count out 30 business days and mark that on my calendar to remind me to contact the USCIS if the case becomes overdue).

I've been sharing this information, how to use the JIT Reports, here in this group since the day after I was told how to do this by Dona Coultice, the Director of the CSC (the JIT Reporting system was tried out on the CSC first, and has now spread to the other service centers as it is such a success and provides such useful information that could "never" appear on a receipt notice) way back in 98 (I believe). But I can type till my fingertips are blue and I find that some just don't want to believe, or don't have the ability to understand, or would rather cling on to the wild guesses on their receipt notice and bury their heads in the sand.

bequibar

My process has been long over, but just to test it, I put in my dates to see how accurately it calculated my processing times.

My first NOA was dated march 26, so that's what I put there. It said I would be approved by september 2003 (I was approved in july, even though I got an RFE and an unusually long wait for a Vermont petition) and then it said it would be processed by NVC by october 2003 (I was actually processed in under a week, also in july).

By october 2003 I had already gotten over 2 months of cold feet and second thoughts, selling my car, renting my apartment, packing my belongings, given notice at work, gotten through my consulate interview and medical, and crossed over to the states with my brand new k1 visa.

But overall, it wasn't horribly far off. I think it was actually better that it erred on the side of longer waits than shorter waits, so as to not give false hopes.

Anybody else tried their own dates to see how it fared?

zakandmimi

Thanks for your encouragement. I can't debate with an attorney. I'm giving up hehehehehe. I agree with you. I don't think anyone can predict exactly when someone is going to be approved. The thing is the concept is out there now. I would love to see someone come out with a new version that factors everything Matthew is requesting. I think he has some great ideas. I don't think some people understand that there is no calculator on the planet that I've seen that will tell you exact figures that factor in tons of variables. I think the point was missed by a few people here that you wouldn't put in your 30 day notice on your rental apartment just because a mortgage calculator told you your house payment would be $450. HEHEHEHEHE Who am I to argue with an attorney though. HEHEHEHEH I do think that Matthew has some great ideas for improving it. I'll look at implementing his suggestions this weekend. Thanks again for your encouragement.

Matthew Udall

Hi Isaac,
How to calculate an overdue date and how to use the Service Centers bi-monthly report is not really something open to debate…. it is what it is. What I am trying to do is help show you how the USCIS themselves tell us to calculate an overdue date. I'm still willing to help you understand this, and in this way we "can" work together. If you want to call, I'm still happy to walk you through a few examples to make sure you understand how to do this (and of course, I'm not going to charge you for this time spent). Once you have that down, if you are a programmer I'll bet you can incorporate that reality (how to make the overdue calculation) into a new and improved calculator.

And I don't want you to get the wrong impression. I'm impressed with the fact you made what you made and that you did this to help the DIY community. I applaud your efforts and I have respect for that. Now lets work together… let me show you how the calculation is made, then work your programming magic and come up with something that will be useful to all concerned.

Give me a call at the office tomorrow, and we'll crunch some numbers for a few hypothetical situations. Probably the best time for me would be sometime after noon, Pacific time. Talk to you then.

Regards,
M. Udall
(626) 229-9799

jeffreyhy

Matt,

I meant that you should give training classes to the NCSC. But they probably will close their ears to good information also.

Regards, JEff

zakandmimi

Hi Matthew, please forgive me for sounding defensive. I would definately love to work together with you on this. What I would really love to see is the calculator on a web server like aila.com . You guys do awesome job keeping up with the back log dates. I'm not sure what web server you are using but I would love to work with you guys on developing one there. That way they can see the current backlogs and get accurate estimates on processing times based on our receipt date. I'm willing to dedicate the time if you are. Please write to me directly at [email protected] if your interested in possibily working together on formulating a calculator. You being an attorney you are defiantely a perfect resource for this type of project. Thanks Matthew. Or if you already have an IT shop there I can forward you guys the code. Thanks Matthew I look forward to talking to you.

zakandmimi

Matthew I'm at work during the day. Are you available on weekends or are you Monday through Friday? I can definately call you Saturday. Drop me a line on email though too. Thanks a million. God Bless!

zakandmimi

Matthew! That is awesome. I just found out from surfing your web portal that aila.org is running off Windows Server technology using IIS. That is the same technology that is used on the server I'm using for the calculator. So transitioning a calculator your site would be really easy! Drag and drop and it's there. You could also add the same color schemes so it would look identifical to your layout. Add your new specifications and guidelines to it and whalla! Anyway just a thought. Keep in touch. Email because I don't check expats that often. Take care God bless.

Waterpony

Any time Isaac. As an IT professional myself, I am on your side...he he...and I do agree that a debate with a lawyer is a lost battle (Matt, this is actually a compliment to you).
Hope you guys can come up with something to improve the program...presuming you have time...
Since I am not in programming anymore, I can not be of any help, however if you have any database related questions, feel free to drop me a message. Good luck!

zakandmimi

Check out the ASP WebMatrix Project. It's a free web development told based on ASP.NET technology. The cool thing is it's free. www.asp.net

Matthew Udall

Actually, I "think" (and I could be wrong) they are discussing whether or not to outsource the function of Information Officer to an outside subcontractor. Perhaps I should put together a bid and try to take over that function :-).

zakandmimi

Hi Matthew, I'd be willing to work on this for aila free. I know it would help a lot of people. If you need my help let me know. Thanks Matthew.

Waterpony

Thanks for the tip Isaac. I took a look at asp.net when it first came out and it is a decent tool...I am a database administrator so I don't deal with apps...I will do some web interfaces occasionally if needed...but mostly help with SQL or tuning.
I wish you all the best in your future programming, the calculator is neat and your effort is appreciated.