Lion in Winter

Two-part question:

1. Anybody in this forum live in the Chicago area?

2. Been here a long time. But seriously thinking about going back. Problem is, we are not exactly multimillionaires so it's a bit difficult to just pick up sticks. Somewhere along the line I forgot to get a career (did Philosophy at University you see) and have been self-employed for a long time, as has my husband. Also we have a 3-year-old, so we can't really arrive with a couple of suitcases and just make it up as we go along. Anyone else in a similar situation? Or any ideas?

Missing the pub.

Stumpyguy

Just go back for a short visit, that will VERY quickly make you miss all the things you love about living in the USA. That will take care of any feelings of homesickness for at least a year.

I don't think one can step in the same proverbial river twice, England has changed and so have you since you have been here. You miss a place that probably doesn't exist any more, at least as you remember it.

bromleygirl

I think if you go back often then you can keep up with changes back home. I can't wait to move back home - I have had enough of conservative up tight America.

I am planning to move back May/June 2004. I'm in Minnesota not far from Chicago - 5 hours drive I think. Logistically it's a case of arranging transportation for belongings and arranging for a place to stay back home just so I can get my feet on the ground. i think that the job market is better than it is here in the U.S.

Lion in Winter

Well maybe you can't go home again, but I have been back every year, except for the last 5 (ouch). I grew up in Wimbledon/London, and actually really like the changes that have taken place in London. So much more cosmopolitan, multi-everything and better food! It's true that many things will not be as I remember them, but then so many things here are not as I would want them either. And some of the things that I did not like about England (class obsession, snobbery, formality, etc.) have moderated.

The Minnesota climate is even worse than Chicago! Very brave of you to live there. I have occasionally thought about Canada - Montreal etc. The culture is definitely different from here. The weather, on the other hand...

Stumpyguy

Moving back is always a very personal decision. Best of luck to you, with whatever you decide to do.

Pulaski

It must be a different London to the one I left in 2001!

Congestion is getting steadily worse, public transport is bursting at the seams yet cost of using it is climbing and yet no improvements are forthcoming, the cost of housing is insane, the (state) schools are in a grim way and yet going private isn't an option (see cost of housing, above). Even if you move out of London the cost of housing isn't much lower, the cost of commuting is higher, and you are more exposed to the all-too-frequent failures of the rail and tube system, and even more of the day is taken up just getting to and from work.

And then there is the "problem" of the current government's off-stated intentions to hook up the British economy to the old nag that is Europe. .....

I hope that you find what are looking for if you go back to London, but wild horses couldn't drag me back there.

Lion in Winter

I probably wouldn't actually choose London to live in, mostly because it's so expensive. My sister is in Winchester, which seems very livable. I don't get any more infuriated by U.K. politicians and government than I do by their U.S. counterparts (a sorry state of affairs all round, I know), and as for Europe, for or against, it pretty much seems to be the way of the future. I political terms, the U.K. is really a pretty insignificant little island (I don't mean to be insulting) these days, for all that we sidle up to Dubya, hoping that some of the limelight will rub off and sending soldiers abroad so that he can have cheap petrol. (Sorry, provocative remark, probably in the wrong forum.) I just miss the countryside, people who understand irony, a place where your career is not the be all and end all of one's identity.

bromleygirl

Here Here Lion,

I couldn't agree more. Yes, it can be very cold here in Minnesota during the winter. I've been here in Minnesota for 2 years and apparently they have been the best 2 years winters that they have had for some time If you call -35 windchill and tons of snow a good winter then they can have them. I'm going to do one more winter here and then that will be it for me.

I'm from London also - Bromley actually via Cambridge. I miss the culture, decent annual leave - I'm fed up with American employers thinking that just because you work for them that they own you which I think that so many things i.e. health insurance, pension etc are all tied to your employment.

I do think that the British school system is far superior to the American system. I have 3 older step sons so I know from first hand. So yes another big reason for moving back is for my 2 young children to be able to go to British schools. I'm sure that it will depend also on what area we live - obviously if you are in a better area there will be better schools.

So when do you plan to move back Lion? I have a UKc friend just move back with her USc husband last month and she loves it.

april

Why not try B.C ? lots of Britisher's Victoria Island is lovey. weather is good Scenery is beautiful......... Just a thought..................

Pulaski

A lot is said about the US and British education systems on these boards, and it seems to me that a lot of weight is placed on the systems' respective histories and where they are now, and not much regard to where the systems are going.

I agree that the schooling that I received in the UK was excellent, but through changes made progressively since I left, the system that I experienced has been progressively dismantled in favor of something more "modern", and less "judgemental" (let's do anything to shield the children from any indication that others might be smarter, or more diligent students, than they are! )

I have no confidence that a typical school in the British education system a few years in the future will be any better than a school that we can find here in the US system by the time that any child of mine would be ready for it.

bromleygirl

I have experience of both systems and even from the stand point of school uniforms, the British system is still better.

I am baffled why children start school so late here. My daughter will be doing yet another year of nursery school here when if we were in the UK she would be entering the first year of infants.

Kindergarten is a joke - 2 1/2 hours of cut, colur and glue.

The by far too long 3 month summer break that strips the continuity away from the school years. When children finally go back to school after being away for 3 months they have forgotten so much from the previous year they have to spend several weeks re-learning what they had learnt before.

Lack of school uniform. Going to school should be for an education not a fashion parade.

So I take it Pulaski that if you do not have any children, you do not have any true experience of the school system???

Education is probably my number one reason why I want to move back that along with the fact I am sick and tired of how religous, rightous and conservative the States have become.

flashman

That's only the image. If you dig a little deeper you'll find that it's all fiction and hype. However if you question it you are immediately branded as ant-American.

bromleygirl

Don't you live in Canada Flashman??

Trust me I'm here in the upper mid west and people are so up tight here it's frightening. No sense of humour and they all go to church on a Sunday and if you say you don't go they look at you very strangley.

Pulaski

You sound like a square peg in a round hole.

Most British expats that long to go back to the UK, sound (to me at least), like they never really fitted in to their "new home", or even seriously tried to do so. They always seem to retain a detachment, a them-and-us attitude - "they do that ...." with an unspoken ".... what are they thinking?", or "..... how could they?"

They retain the values and principles of their home, not matter how far removed that makes them from the country they move to.

:-/

ladyofthelake

I had a similar situation when asked if I'd found a church to go to yet. "No, I don't go to church" The reply was "oh" followed by a very long awkward silence.....

As for the differences in school systems, uniforms may look nice but they don't have any baring on the tuition being given. There is the argument that children who come from low income families won't be under pressure for not wearing the "in" clothes when a school uniform is imposed. Unfortunately the low income kids still come under fire from the bullies because of what they're wearing, even when in uniforms. They certainly did back in my time at school.
I think the basics covered in Reception year versus Nursery, and Year 1 versus Kindergarten are very similar overall. I have an 8 year old who did Reception and Year 1 and a 5 year old who did nursery and now starting Kindergarten. The only big difference, I think is when the basics for reading is started.

Taken from Education World

WHAT DO THE STUDIES SAY?
Studies on the effects of age at kindergarten entry yield mixed results. In The Effect of a Child's Age at School Entrance on Reading Readiness and Achievement Test Scores (ERIC Document ED366939) Karen Magliacano reported that scores from Metropolitan Reading Readiness Tests and the Iowa Tests of Basic Skills were compared for two sample groups of second graders. Sample A was made up of students who were between the ages of 4 years 11 months and 5 years 4 months (younger students) when entering kindergarten, and Sample B was made up of students who were between the ages of 5 years 5 months and 6 years 1 month (older students). The study found "no significant difference between the samples in reading test scores as a result of chronological age

In a study published in the Journal of Educational Research (Jan-Feb 1991), Summer Birth Date Children: Kindergarten Entrance Age and Academic Achievement (ERIC Document EJ426449), Sandra L. Crosser compared academic achievement indices of seventh through ninth graders (n=45) who entered kindergarten at age five with indices of similar children who entered at age six (n=45). "All statistically significant differences favored older males and females, especially in reading for older males," states a summary of the findings.

Readiness for Kindergarten: Parent and Teacher Beliefs, an October 1995 report of The National Center for Education Statistics (NCES), found that parents of preschoolers and kindergarten teachers don't always agree on what skills are necessary for kindergarten success. The reports states: "Parents of a majority of preschoolers believe that knowing the letters of the alphabet, being able to count to 20 or more, and using pencils and paint brushes are very important or essential for a child to be ready for kindergarten, while few kindergarten teachers share these beliefs...[C]ompared with teachers, parents place greater importance on academic skills (e.g., counting, writing, and reading) and prefer classroom practices that are more academically oriented. One reason for this may be that parents perceive that there are specific activities they can do to teach their children school-related basic skills, whereas ways of changing the social maturity or temperamental characteristics of their children are less apparent."

AN EXPERIMENT IN NORTH CAROLINA
At the same time that many parents and educators are worrying that some children may be too young to benefit from kindergarten, some states are making provisions for younger children to enter kindergarten after a screening procedure. North Carolina regulations allow all children born on or before October 16 to enter kindergarten. This year, a new policy in North Carolina allows children who pass their fourth birthdays by April 16 to be screened for kindergarten entrance in September. To be eligible for kindergarten, a four-year old must achieve a score in the 99th percentile on tests administered by private psychologists. (Parents pay for the testing.) Both the child and the parents must also meet with local school officials. A spokesperson in the North Carolina Department of Education had no numbers yet regarding the number of children enrolled under these new guidelines. Those numbers should be available in the next few weeks.

In Michigan, in the first quarter of this century, some public schools enrolled classes of children twice each year. Some children entered school in September; other children entered school in February. These half-year classes continued through high school. Perhaps a six-month chronological age range would lend flexibility to today's system.

Isn't it ironic that whilst some may be worrying about their children starting too late, the Americans are worried that their kids are starting too soon. At the end of the day, the parent has to decide what they feel most comfortable with. Personally, I'm still sitting on the fence with this one.