dumas

Hi, I'm currently working in the midwest under a TN Visa and I may soon be getting an offer from another company that will require a new TN visa application.

Does anyone know if I can apply at a non-border POE (ie. Chicago, Milwaukee, etc.) or do I have to be crossing into the U.S. at the time that I apply? If I can avoid the hassle and expense of heading back to Canada, that would be great.

Thanks

crg

You have to be arriving from foreign territory and applying for admission. Even if you drove to a port of entry on the land border, you're required to physically exit the country, turn around, and be coming from Canada or Mexico to be issued a TN or any other entry document.

You can apply by mail, but the fee is higher, and it takes a lot longer.

Stuart Brook

dumas wrote:
    > Hi, I'm currently working in the midwest under a TN Visa and I may soon
    > be getting an offer from another company that will require a new TN visa
    > application.
    >
    > Does anyone know if I can apply at a non-border POE (ie.
    > Chicago, Milwaukee, etc.) or do I have to be crossing into the U.S. at
    > the time that I apply? If I can avoid the hassle and expense of heading
    > back to Canada, that would be great.
    >
    > Thanks

You must go to a border crossing, unless you want the problems
associated with filing form I-129 for a change of employer which is
essentially one of co-ordinated timing. Only in a few cases is that to
be recommended.

Stuart Brook

crg14624 wrote:

    > Originally posted by dumas
    >
    >>Hi, I'm currently working in
    >
    > the midwest under a TN Visa and I may soon be getting an offer from
    > another company that will require a new TN visa application.
    >
    >>Does
    >
    > anyone know if I can apply at a non-border POE (ie. Chicago, Milwaukee,
    > etc.) or do I have to be crossing into the U.S. at the time that I
    > apply? If I can avoid the hassle and expense of heading back to Canada,
    > that would be great.
    >
    >>Thanks
    >
    >
    > You have to be arriving from
    > foreign territory and applying for admission. Even if you drove to a
    > port of entry on the land border, you're required to physically exit the
    > country, turn around, and be coming from Canada or Mexico to be issued a
    > TN or any other entry document.
    >
    > You can apply by mail, but the fee is
    > higher, and it takes a lot longer.

In practice, few officers actually make you do the flagpole turn at a
border PoE.

crg

That's odd considering it's illegal for them to issue an I-94 to someone who isn't an applicant for admission.

Stuart Brook

crg14624 wrote:

    >>In practice, few officers actually make you do the flagpole
    >>turn at a border PoE.
    >
    >
    > That's odd considering it's illegal
    >
    >>for them to issue an I-94 to someone who isn't an applicant for
    >>admission.

I think it's a case of they recognize that it's a formality that one
could do and be strictly legal, but that it is just that ... a formality.

crg

"few officers actually make you do the flagpole turn at a
border POE"

All regulations are formalities. I'm usually on the same page as you. However, my sources tell me this would be very very rare especially since personnel protections for the officers has eroded under the new DHS hierarchy. Noone wants to get time on the beach for breaking rules. Also, how would the officer refuse admission to someone who isn't coming from foreign territory? If they discover a serious violation during the TN interview, they'd have to set the person up to see a judge instead of refusing entry.

Stuart Brook

crg14624 wrote:

    >>I think it's a case of they recognize that it's a formality
    >>that one
    >>could do and be strictly legal, but that it is just that
    >>... a formality.
    >
    >
    > "few officers actually make you do the
    >
    >>flagpole turn at a
    >
    > border POE"
    >
    > All regulations are formalities. I'm
    >
    >>usually on the same page as you. However, my sources tell me this
    >>would be very very rare especially since personnel protections for the
    >>officers has eroded under the new DHS hierarchy. Noone wants to get
    >>time on the beach for breaking rules. Also, how would the officer
    >>refuse admission to someone who isn't coming from foreign territory?
    >>If they discover a serious violation during the TN interview, they'd
    >>have to set the person up to see a judge instead of refusing entry.

They may indeed be more fussy now ... but I've definitely heard of
people not being made to do the formality. The officer basically has to
treat it as if you did do the flagpole turn. If you're refused then you
go to Canada, or into Mexico. Actually, it's my understanding that the
TN cannot go to a judge anyway.

Many years ago, I got a TN-1 at a southern crossing. Went into the INS
office and told them what I needed and asked "do you want us to walk
across the bridge past the border marker and come back?" His response
was "no, don't bother". We both understood that technically I was
asking for re-entry.

crg

If the applicant was found to have committed fraud on the TN letter or they had a criminal inadmissibility then they'd need to set them up under sec 237 instead of 212. The chances of this occurring would be slim, but very serious if it did happen. The government has the burden of proof when removing people, but the alien has the burden when they are applicants. Also, it wouldn't be simply going to the flagpole and back. The subject is supposed to be admitted into the foreign country on the other side of the border and then be returning. Also, if the TN holder was past the expiration of their existing TN then they could be setup before a judge as an overstay right then.

For example. a citizen of Romania admitted on an F1 who also has a B2 visa is no longer going to school and wants to come back as a B2 to settle their affairs. The go to the northern border with the goal of coming back and be admitted as a B2. They can't get into Canada because they don't have a Canadian visitor's visa. Even if they walk to the flagpole and back, the US officer isn't allowed to admit them as a B2 or give them an I-94 because they didn't depart.

Stuart Brook

crg14624 wrote:
    > If the applicant was found to have committed fraud on the TN letter or
    > they had a criminal inadmissibility then they'd need to set them up
    > under sec 237 instead of 212.

Most cases like that I've seen have been set up under simple refusal, or
expedited removal depending on how generous the guard was.

    > For example. a citizen
    > of Romania admitted on an F1 who also has a B2 visa is no longer going
    > to school and wants to come back as a B2 to settle their affairs. The
    > go to the northern border with the goal of coming back and be admitted
    > as a B2. They can't get into Canada because they don't have a Canadian
    > visitor's visa. Even if they walk to the flagpole and back, the US
    > officer isn't allowed to admit them as a B2 or give them an I-94 because
    > they didn't depart.

Of course, a Canadian citizen should be allowed into Canada. As to into
Mexico, well that's another one of those issues with Canadians getting
TNs at the southern border. You have to make sure you have all your
ducks in a row!

Sylvia Ottemoeller

"dumas" <member15132@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

    > Hi, I'm currently working in the midwest under a TN Visa and I may soon
    > be getting an offer from another company that will require a new TN visa
    > application.
    > Does anyone know if I can apply at a non-border POE (ie.
    > Chicago, Milwaukee, etc.) or do I have to be crossing into the U.S. at
    > the time that I apply? If I can avoid the hassle and expense of heading
    > back to Canada, that would be great.

The prospective employer can file Form I-129 asking for TN classification
for you, and change of employer, to start on a particular date. If a $1000
premium processing fee is included with the petition, it will be adjudicated
within 2 weeks. Be sure a good immigration attorney is involved so that
there are no errors.

This petition would be filed by mail, and you would not travel anywhere.

The new employer can also ask for concurrent TN employment, so that you
could continue working for your old TN employer after the approval of the TN
petition.