Dave D

Filing fraudulent marriage. Any Help

I brought a Gal over from Ukraine. Got married just after filing the
change of status things went south and so did she to a friend from
Ukraine. She is making up things and trying to stay in on a battered
wife status. Three questions

Do I need a lawyer to file papers on this.
What papers do I file if I can do it.
Has any one in the group done this and did it work.

She scammed me from the beginning and I do not think it is right and
want to pursuer it.

Mrtravel

Dave D wrote:
    > Filing fraudulent marriage. Any Help
    >
    > I brought a Gal over from Ukraine. Got married just after filing the
    > change of status things went south and so did she to a friend from
    > Ukraine. She is making up things and trying to stay in on a battered
    > wife status. Three questions
    >
    > Do I need a lawyer to file papers on this.

What papers?

    > What papers do I file if I can do it.

Divorce papers

    > Has any one in the group done this and did it work.
    >
    > She scammed me from the beginning and I do not think it is right and
    > want to pursuer it.

You have evidence?

Folinskyinla

Hi:

Until and unless someone goes to enforce that I-864, [and if she gets battered spouse status, you will probably not be on the hook], it is NOT YOUR PROBLEM.

The BICE investigator may be quite excited to hear from you, but when it gets to BCIS or in Immigration Court, the aggrieved spouse is NOT the most reliable witness. You are hurt and motivated to get back.

I am NOT saying she didn't scam you -- but you successfully showed that YOU were in love and wanted this woman here and now you have changed your mind -- that does not make for credibility to an independent trier of fact.

Andrew Defaria

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Folinskyinla wrote:

    > Originally posted by Dave D
    >> Filing fraudulent marriage. Any Help I brought a Gal over from
    >> Ukraine. Got married just after filing the change of status things
    >> went south and so did she to a friend from Ukraine. She is making up
    >> things and trying to stay in on a battered wife status. Three questions
    >> Do I need a lawyer to file papers on this.
    >> What papers do I file if I can do it.
    >> Has any one in the group done this and did it work.
    >> She scammed me from the beginning and I do not think it is right and
    >> want to pursuer i
    > Hi:
    > Until and unless someone goes to enforce that I-864, [and if she gets
    > battered spouse status, you will probably not be on the hook], it is
    > NOT YOUR PROBLEM.

I wouldn't say he was problemless. Assuming that the marriage was indeed
fraudulent (on her part) he can also be held to pay spousal support.
Paying spousal support to a person that used you to get into the US
seems wrong to me!

Additional claims of abuse are often allegations of criminal behavior
and often such "abusers" are ordered to take classes for their "abuse"
which are expensive and or pay criminal fines. If such charges are
indeed truly fabricated to gain special status it seems to me to be a
travesty of justice to have the USC's name ruined, have him pay a lot of
money for classes and fines that are unnecessary, on top of having to
provide spousal support, possibly be on the hook from the I-864!

    > The BICE investigator may be quite excited to hear from you, but when
    > it gets to BCIS or in Immigration Court, the aggrieved spouse is NOT
    > the most reliable witness. You are hurt and motivated to get back.

He may also have been truly scammed. I thought that such things are
illegal are they not? Where else is the BCIS going to hear about the
scam save the scammed person? Yes they do have to discern between true
scam and just jilted spouse he still should be heard from I would think.

    > I am NOT saying she didn't scam you -- but you successfully showed
    > that YOU were in love and wanted this woman here and now you have
    > changed your mind -- that does not make for credibility to an
    > independent trier of fact.

I see nowhere where he said that he changed his mind, rather I see him
saying that she left him. We don't know the exact circumstances but the
timing sure seems suspicious to me.
===
Obligatory witty line: I like kids, but I don't think I could eat a
whole one.

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Folinskyinla wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="[email protected]">Orig inally
posted by Dave D <br>
<blockquote type="cite">Filing fraudulent marriage. Any Help I
brought a Gal over from Ukraine. Got married just after filing the
change of status things went south and so did she to a friend from
Ukraine. She is making up things and trying to stay in on a battered
wife status. Three questions<br>
<!----><br>
Do I need a lawyer to file papers on this.<br>
<!----> What papers do I file if I can do it.<br>
Has any one in the group done this and did it work.<br>
<!----><br>
<!----><!----> She scammed me from the beginning and I do not think it
is right and want to pursuer i
<!---->
<!----><!---->
<!---->
<!---->
<!----></blockquote>
<!----><!----><br>
Hi:<br>
<br>
Until and unless someone goes to enforce that I-864, [and if she gets
battered spouse status, you will probably not be on the hook], it is
NOT YOUR PROBLEM.</blockquote>
I wouldn't say he was problemless. Assuming that the marriage was
indeed fraudulent (on her part) he can also be held to pay spousal
support. Paying spousal support to a person that used you to get into
the US seems wrong to me! <br>
<br>
Additional claims of abuse are often allegations of criminal behavior
and often such "abusers" are ordered to take classes for their "abuse"
which are expensive and or pay criminal fines. If such charges are
indeed truly fabricated to gain special status it seems to me to be a
travesty of justice to have the USC's name ruined, have him pay a lot
of money for classes and fines that are unnecessary, on top of having
to provide spousal support, possibly be on the hook from the I-864!<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="[email protected]">The
BICE investigator may be quite excited to hear from you, but when it
gets to BCIS or in Immigration Court, the aggrieved spouse is NOT the
most reliable witness. You are hurt and motivated to get back.</blockquote>
He may also have been truly scammed. I thought that such things are
illegal are they not? Where else is the BCIS going to hear about the
scam save the scammed person? Yes they do have to discern between true
scam and just jilted spouse he still should be heard from I would think.<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="[email protected]">I
am NOT saying she didn't scam you -- but you successfully showed that
YOU were in love and wanted this woman here and now you have changed
your mind -- that does not make for credibility to an independent trier
of fact.</blockquote>
I see nowhere where he said that he changed his mind, rather I see him
saying that she left him. We don't know the exact circumstances but the
timing sure seems suspicious to me.<br>
===<br>
Obligatory witty line: I like kids, but I don't think I could eat a
whole one.<br>
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AnnaV

Will someone please clarify these issues once and for all?

1. If the AOS papers are filed, the interview has not happened, and the marriage is no longer "viable," i.e. headed for a divorce or separation, can the alien spouse still continue with the adjustment of status based on marriage?

2. If the initial interview did happen and conditional residency is approved, THEN the marriage heads south (like many marriages, regardless of BCIS' involvement), how is the alien spouse able to remove the conditions without the cooperation of the citizen spouse?

I think we all need a definitive answer to these questions since they seem to come up with surprising frequency anyway.

CharlieS

I am not totally 100% sure here but my understanding is that as long as BCIS believe it to be a bonafide marriage, AOS can be applied for even if the couple are seperating.
Quite a few years ago I married a USC (I'm a UKC) and we went through the whole process of AOS. After only a year we seperated, yet at my AOS interview the the INS officer told me i had nothing to worry about if we divorced, because they believe the marriage to be genuine. Eventually i moved back to the UK without completing, but i did have the option to stay.


As an earlier responce said, if you completely believed it to be a genuine relationship, you have nothing to worry about. I would be tempted to just wash my hands of it all and let her worry about it. Revenge just doesnt seem worthwhile.

Andy Platt

"AnnaV" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Will someone please clarify these issues once and for all?
    > 1. If the AOS papers are filed, the interview has not happened, and the
    > marriage is no longer "viable," i.e. headed for a divorce or
    > separation, can the alien spouse still continue with the adjustment
    > of status based on marriage?

Generally no but there are exceptions - if the spouse dies and the marriage
has existed for two years already the person can file. They can also claim
they were a battered spouse and file for that. For both of those situations
you would actually file a new petition for yourself, not rely on the
original I-129F or I-130. It appears that in this situation the immigrant is
(considering?) pursueing a battered spouse claim. Obviously this is a touchy
subject: On the one hand it can, as Mr. DeFaria states, potentially be used
against an innocent spouse who has been deceived; one the other, without
this we would be opening the doors to potentially very abusive situations
for immigrants who are deceived by their spouse. I actually trust the BCIS
to treat these situations with the attention they deserve.

    > 2. If the initial interview did happen and conditional residency is
    > approved, THEN the marriage heads south (like many marriages,
    > regardless of BCIS' involvement), how is the alien spouse able to
    > remove the conditions without the cooperation of the citizen spouse?

That's much easier. The person is a permanent resident and it's pretty much
up to the service to show that they shouldn't get the conditions removed.
The immigrant can file the I-751 any time after divorce without waiting for
the two years (less 90 days) to expire. They have to provide evidence that
the marriage was entered into in good faith.

Andy.

--
I'm not really here - it's just your warped imagination.

Andrew Defaria

CharlieS wrote:

    > As an earlier responce said, if you completely believed it to be a
    > genuine relationship, you have nothing to worry about. I would be
    > tempted to just wash my hands of it all and let her worry about it.
    > Revenge just doesnt seem worthwhile.

Sometimes it's not revenge - it's justice and protection of ones assets
and good name. The soon to be ex is claiming abuse and quite possibly
scammed this guy.

Tell me, if you've just been scammed do you just let it go? How about if
it might cost you potentially thousands of dollars? What if you get a
"record" from this? That OK with you? Just let it go? I think not.
===
Obligatory witty line: Budget: A method for going broke methodically.

Andrew Defaria

Andy Platt wrote:

    > "AnnaV" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> Will someone please clarify these issues once and for all?
    >> 1. If the AOS papers are filed, the interview has not happened, and
    >> the marriage is no longer "viable," i.e. headed for a divorce or
    >> separation, can the alien spouse still continue with the adjustment
    >> of status based on marriage?
    > Generally no but there are exceptions - if the spouse dies and the
    > marriage has existed for two years already the person can file. They
    > can also claim they were a battered spouse and file for that. For both
    > of those situations you would actually file a new petition for
    > yourself, not rely on the original I-129F or I-130. It appears that in
    > this situation the immigrant is (considering?) pursueing a battered
    > spouse claim. Obviously this is a touchy subject: On the one hand it
    > can, as Mr. DeFaria states, potentially be used against an innocent
    > spouse who has been deceived; one the other, without
    > this we would be opening the doors to potentially very abusive
    > situations for immigrants who are deceived by their spouse. I actually
    > trust the BCIS to treat these situations with the attention they deserve.

I would change that to "potentially be used" to "easily be used" as very
little actual proof is apparently necessary. To "protect" the "claimed"
abused person I've heard that the BCIS will not even consider anything
from the accused "abuser". Doesn't make me feel that the BCIS treats
these situations with the attention they deserve.
===
Obligatory witty line: Things are more like they are today than they
ever were before.

Folinskyinla

Hi:

The DHS proceedings on whether or not she gets a green card or keeps it are NOT his problem -- he is not a "party" to those proceedings and has no "standing".

Now, if she was to seek spousal support or some type of criminal charges for spousal abuse were brought, they would NOT be done by DHS, but by the local State. THEN, he WOULD be a "party" and would have "standing" to deal with the problem.

You brought up stuff outside of DHS's purview.

Andrew Defaria

Folinskyinla wrote:

    > The DHS proceedings on whether or not she gets a green card or keeps
    > it are NOT his problem -- he is not a "party" to those proceedings and
    > has no "standing".

Not sure what you mean by "standing" here however the if the basis of
her obtaining immigration benefits is essentially on allegations of
abuse then I would certainly think that his input is highly relevent -
at least as relevent as her input. You stated before that his input
might be suspect due to other motivations. Surely her input is as
suspect due to other motivations too - the motivation to get a green
card, no?

    > Now, if she was to seek spousal support or some type of criminal
    > charges for spousal abuse were brought, they would NOT be done by DHS,
    > but by the local State. THEN, he WOULD be a "party" and would have
    > "standing" to deal with the problem.

IMHO he should not have to deal with a problems of alleged abuse (if the
abuse did not happen) or spousal support for a fraudulent marriage if
the alleger is a law breaker who is using fraud and him to obtain
immigration benefits. IOW I think the issue of fraudulent marriage to
obtain a green card should be resolve first before he need fight a
potentially costly battle to defend himself from a law breaker.
===
Obligatory witty line: It's not hard to meet expenses, they're everywhere.

Marjeta

But then again, he signed the Affidavit of Support of his own free accord, taking full responsability of taking care of this woman. So he is in part responsable for this mess and for bringing a fony and marrying her. And now she will have her own story to tell (so called the other side of the coin).

Just my thought... Back to the legal issues...

Folinskyinla

Hi:

I put "standing" and "party" in quotes because they are both legal "terms of art". And they represent concepts that are quite a bit broader than immigration law. Those concepts are the basis of my statment of "not his problem" -- he has no direct interest in her ability to keep a green card -- that is between her and DHS -- and it is ONLY the DHS that can take her before an Immigration Judge.

As for "relevance" -- of course it is relevant -- I never said otherwise. But that determination is up to -- again DHS and the Immigration Court and perhaps the Court of Appeals.

If HE should be DIRECTLY subjected to some legal sanction, then he does HAVE "standing". But not before. As for anything that DHS seeks to do with her, he is but a "stranger" to the action.

Andrew Defaria

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Marjeta wrote:

    > Originally posted by Andrew Defaria
    >> Paying spousal support to a person that used you to get into the US
    >> seems wrong to me!
    > But then again, he signed the Affidavit of Support of his own free
    > accord, taking full responsability of taking care of this woman. So he
    > is in part responsable for this mess and for bringing a fony and
    > marrying her. And now she will have her own story to tell (so called
    > the other side of the coin).

If you sign a car purchase agreement based on the representation that
the car is mechanically sound and then find out it's a total lemon are
you responsible for the fact that is was not what was advertised? At
least here in the US you are not responsible when the other party
deliberately commits fraud.
===
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Marjeta wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="[email protected]">Orig inally
posted by Andrew Defaria <br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Paying spousal support to a person that used
you to get into the US seems wrong to me!</blockquote>
<!----><!---->But then again, he signed the Affidavit of Support of his
own free accord, taking full responsability of taking care of this
woman. So he is in part responsable for this mess and for bringing a
fony and marrying her. And now she will have her own story to tell (so
called the other side of the coin).</blockquote>
If you sign a car purchase agreement based on the representation that
the car is mechanically sound and then find out it's a total lemon are
you responsible for the fact that is was not what was advertised? At
least here in the US you are not responsible when the other party
deliberately commits fraud.<br>
===<br>
Obligatory witty line: Error, no keyboard - press F1 to continue.<br>
</body>
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Mrtravel

Andrew DeFaria wrote:

    > Marjeta wrote:
    >
    >> Originally posted by Andrew Defaria
    >>> Paying spousal support to a person that used you to get into the US
    >>> seems wrong to me!
    >> But then again, he signed the Affidavit of Support of his own free
    >> accord, taking full responsability of taking care of this woman. So he
    >> is in part responsable for this mess and for bringing a fony and
    >> marrying her. And now she will have her own story to tell (so called
    >> the other side of the coin).
    >
    > If you sign a car purchase agreement based on the representation that
    > the car is mechanically sound and then find out it's a total lemon are
    > you responsible for the fact that is was not what was advertised? At
    > least here in the US you are not responsible when the other party
    > deliberately commits fraud.

You buy the car from the dealer. If financed through an unrelated
company, you still owe the finance company until the money is paid back.
The I-864 is an agreement you have with the US Government. They are not
the ones the OP is accusing of fraud.