James K

I am buried below a weekend's worth of information overload for
immigration issues, so I thought that I might seek some assistance. Too
many TLAs too quickly.

I am a US Citizen (in LA) who was engaged to my English rose last weekend
in London. She nearly killed us both when she unexpectedly leapt into my
arms while we were standing on some marble steps, but I will marry her
anyway.

Ideally, we would like to be married there and live here in California.
If necessary, we could also have a quickie in Las Vegas if it would make
the process smoother. As we have just become engaged, we are not in any
huge rush to be married. So, the priorities are:

1) Not be apart after the marriage.
2) Authorization for her to work immediately upon arrival (ideal) or upon
marriage (almost as good) or very soon after. We are both in our first
jobs after college and would like to limit non-earning time as much as
possible
3) Start to finish within a year
4) Ceremony in the UK (optional, but preferred)

I read several mentions in the google cache of this group about people
getting their EAD at the point of entry to the US for certain locations
(JFK, Atl., Sea.) on a K1. Is this still possible? (I mostly saw
items that were a few years old) Must I be a resident of these regions
for this? We would be quite willing for her to have a layover in New York
en route to LA for this purpose.

She will be in Las Vegas for a trade show in a few months. Could a
quickie marriage there work to our advantage by, for example, filing K-3
instead of K-1? I realize that the 129F processing times would be the
same, but would this make the EAD easier or faster to obtain? (This would
be in addition to a proper ceremony in the UK.)

Will it cause problems to come here on a K-1 after a proper ceremony in
the UK, then have a civil ceremony in the US to fulfill the
US-marriage requirement of the K-1? The thinking was that this way, the
wedding planning and 129F processing could happen concurrently without
requiring time apart after the UK wedding.

Thanks in advance,
James

--
James Kingston
[email protected]
Substitute as required if you wish to email me in confidence

Kristin

Hi James - You have a lot of things to read up on and consider before
you make your mind up. I would recommend you read the K-1 FAQ from
beginning to end, including all of the info on K-3s (because of your
interest in a wedding in London). It is invaluable info on helping you
get your head around the options.

http://www.visajourney.com/faq/k1faq.htm

I'm a K-1 alum (hubby from Canada), fyi. We chose K-1 for it's ability
to address many of the same issues you have presented, so I thought I
would respond to your questions.

James K wrote:

    >So, the priorities are:
    >
    > 1) Not be apart after the marriage.

If you do not want to be separated after you get married, you're
probably going to need to do the K-1, which means not getting married in
England. In my opinion, with the facts as you state them, this is your
best option.

If you must get married in England, and do not want to be separated
after the marriage, you will have to stay in England (preferably on some
kind of official immigrant status, not just as a tourist) while her visa
is being processed. London currently would allow you (depending on YOUR
immigration status) allows you to file an I-130 directly with them,
instead of filing through the Service Center in the US. This usually
referred to as DCF and you'll want to read up on this, too.

If you get married in England and cannot wait there with her for her
visa to be processed, there is basically no way for her to come back to
the US immediately after the wedding. Doing so would risk her being
denied entry and possibly even banned for entering the US with immigrant
intent and without the necessary visa.

    > 2) Authorization for her to work immediately upon arrival (ideal) or upon
    > marriage (almost as good) or very soon after. We are both in our first
    > jobs after college and would like to limit non-earning time as much as
    > possible

Again, the K-1 is the best possible solution IMO, unless you can wait it
out with her in the UK. Some POEs do offer the EAD (stamp, not the
actual card) when you enter on a K-1; JFK is one that has been pretty
good about it in the past. If she does not get the EAD stamp at the
POE, she will be eligible to file for one with your service center
(which generally doesn't get processed in time) or you can marry
immediately, and she can send in her AOS paperwork immediately, and she
may have her 1-year EAD within 90 days or so of entry. Whether she gets
the EAD at the POE or not, though, she will need the 1-year EAD to work
after the 90 days on her I-94 expire.

The K-3 is not eligible for the 90 day EAD stamp. The K-3 has about the
same or slightly longer wait for an EAD, since it is sent to the MSC for
processing before being issued through your local office. It is good
for 2 years though - basically the length of the visa, which is also
good for two years from the date of entry.

If you decided to immigrate to England and then filed her I-130 directly
with the consulate in London, she would get her green card when she
entered the US and would never need an EAD.

    > 3) Start to finish within a year
Start to finish *what* within a year? Being together legally in the US?
Probably not a problem with any of these options, although it could
take longer (USCIS is notorious for playing with the most generous
timeline estimates). Start to finish with an EAD? I'm not sure, it
depends on where you would be processed, as each office and Service
Center does things differently. Start to finish with a conditional
green card? Again, it depends on how fast your office/Service Center
processed things. I wouldn't make any plans you couldn't change/cancel
as you just never know how long things will take.

    > 4) Ceremony in the UK (optional, but preferred)
You'll have to do a K-3 (which means being separated unless you can hang
out in the UK while it processes) or getting UK immigration status and
doing DCF.

    > I read several mentions in the google cache of this group about people
    > getting their EAD at the point of entry to the US for certain locations
    > (JFK, Atl., Sea.) on a K1. Is this still possible? (I mostly saw
    > items that were a few years old) Must I be a resident of these regions
    > for this? We would be quite willing for her to have a layover in New York
    > en route to LA for this purpose.

Yes JFK is one of the POEs that has been fairly consistent in providing
the EAD stamp. It's no guarantee, though. You do not have to be a
resident of NY in order to use their POE or for her to receive the EAD
stamp at JFK. Many have found it to be worth their while to do the
layover on the chance they might get their EAD.

    > She will be in Las Vegas for a trade show in a few months. Could a
    > quickie marriage there work to our advantage by, for example, filing K-3
    > instead of K-1? I realize that the 129F processing times would be the
    > same, but would this make the EAD easier or faster to obtain? (This would
    > be in addition to a proper ceremony in the UK.)

A quickie marriage in Vegas would be fine, although your fiancee could
have trouble getting into the US for the Vegas show/wedding if the
border folks know she's marrying a US citizen. You will want to make
sure she carries plenty of proof of her intent to return to the UK after
the marriage. Since she is coming for business, the topic may not ever
come up but better to be prepared. Then after she returns, you can file
the I-130/I-129f.

K-3 I-129f processing may or may not take longer than K-1 I-129f
processing. It depends on the Service Center. I don't know how long
either CSC or MSC (NBC) is taking right now. You would want to compare.
As I said above, the EAD could take longer for a K-3 than a K-1, since
it is processed differently.

If you marry in Vegas, she will have to return to the UK, presumably
without you, so being together immediately post-marriage isn't possible.
You could also then have the "proper" ceremony in the UK whenever you
know the K-3 is approved and she could return to the US with you at that
point.

    > Will it cause problems to come here on a K-1 after a proper ceremony in
    > the UK, then have a civil ceremony in the US to fulfill the
    > US-marriage requirement of the K-1? The thinking was that this way, the
    > wedding planning and 129F processing could happen concurrently without
    > requiring time apart after the UK wedding.

I'm a worrywart and there is no way on God's green earth that I would
have ever had any kind of "proper" or "unofficial" or "religious-only"
or any other kind of ceremony in Canada before we got married in the US.
One of the things that can derail a K-1 adjustment is if the USCIS
officials think you were ALREADY married when you entered the US. I
would never take the risk that I could not convince or prove that my
"unofficial" ceremony in Canada didn't really make us married. Proving
something did NOT happen is not easy - how do you prove you weren't
officially or properly married in that ceremony? I know of at least one
newsgrouper who has posted about her AOS being delayed because they
mentioned their "unofficial" ceremony back in her home country and the
then-INS officer pended their AOS due to his belief that they were
already married when she entered the US on a K-1. I'm not sure she was
ever able to prove they hadn't been married! You can do what you want,
but I would never take the risk, personally.

Good luck with your reading, congrats on the engagement (and on not
falling down the steps!) and try to balance your obsession with the
marriage-visa business (because it will become a total obsession) with
your joy about your upcoming wedding.

james_k

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 16:22:16 -0500, Kristin wrote:
>
> http://www.visajourney.com/faq/k1faq.htm
>

I found that one over the weekend. It was very refreshing (and
occasionally eye-popping) reading.

Incidentally, we have tentatively decided to file K-1, have a
nonlegal ceremony in England once she's free to come, then do a quickie
civil here in LA once she hits American soil. This saves us from time
apart (we've had plenty over the last four years), gives us a (hopefully)
predictable timeline (I assume that we'll be together & married in the US
before 2005), and gets us a ceremony in the UK.


>London currently would allow you (depending on YOUR
> immigration status) allows you to file an I-130 directly with them,
> instead of filing through the Service Center in the US. This usually
> referred to as DCF and you'll want to read up on this, too.

Sadly, I have, and it's N/A. If only I had the nerve to propose when I was a
legal UK resident.

> Again, the K-1 is the best possible solution IMO, unless you can wait it
> out with her in the UK. Some POEs do offer the EAD (stamp, not the
> actual card) when you enter on a K-1;

She pointed out to me yesterday that if the EAD stamp is invalidated
immediately upon marriage, then choosing a good POE is pretty much
pointless. We'll need to verify this, but it seemed to follow from what
we read.

> Whether she gets
> the EAD at the POE or not, though, she will need the 1-year EAD to work
> after the 90 days on her I-94 expire.

Yes, this is the sort of line I was referring to above. To me, this
implies that she can work during the period from entry until marriage, but
because the I-94 expires upon marriage she cannot work again until she
gets her EAD. Thoughts?

> If you decided to immigrate to England and then filed her I-130 directly
> with the consulate in London, she would get her green card when she
> entered the US and would never need an EAD.

I would jump all over this, if we didn't need at least one of us to have
employment when we arrive in the US.

> Start to finish *what* within a year? Being together legally in the US?
Yes. Hopefully by this time next year we will be huddled together in our
own laughably cozy (aka small) apartment.

> As I said above, the EAD could take longer for a K-3 than a K-1, since
> it is processed differently.

Enlightening. I would have assumed otherwise.

> If you marry in Vegas, she will have to return to the UK, presumably
> without you, so being together immediately post-marriage isn't possible.

We've pretty much ditched the Vegas idea altogether. But the first
thought was not that we would be together after the Vegas wedding in
February, but rather after a religious ceremony which would happen after
the K-3 paperwork was rubber stamped.

> I'm a worrywart and there is no way on God's green earth that I would
> have ever had any kind of "proper" or "unofficial" or "religious-only"
> or any other kind of ceremony in Canada before we got married in the US.

I tend not to be, and I hope that it won't be to my/our downfall. After
the months of effort to get British Gas to send me a bill in my own name
after many calls and several letters, I find it hard to imagine that their
bureaucracies will discover a wedding that we don't tell them about. No
officials but a priest... no paperwork but a bar tab.

> One of the things that can derail a K-1 adjustment is if the USCIS
> officials think you were ALREADY married when you entered the US. I
> would never take the risk that I could not convince or prove that my
> "unofficial" ceremony in Canada didn't really make us married. Proving
> something did NOT happen is not easy - how do you prove you weren't
> officially or properly married in that ceremony? I know of at least one
> newsgrouper who has posted about her AOS being delayed because they
> mentioned their "unofficial" ceremony back in her home country and the
> then-INS officer pended their AOS due to his belief that they were
> already married when she entered the US on a K-1. I'm not sure she was
> ever able to prove they hadn't been married! You can do what you want,
> but I would never take the risk, personally.

She is more like yourself, riskwise, so we may well end up just having a
party (without a priest) there and a wedding stateside. But there
shouldn't be much risk of being accidentally married in England. It seems
to be well guarded by more bureaucratic procedures.

Here in the US, my parents discovered that it's quite easy to find out
that you haven't been married for 30 years, due to an error in the
paperwork. Fortunately they had an earlier elopement filed in Vegas.

> Good luck with your reading, congrats on the engagement (and on not
> falling down the steps!)

Indeed. Luckily we fell UP the steps.

Thank you, Kristin, for your help.

Kristin

Hi again James - I think your instinct on the K-1 is right for what you
are hoping to do and hopefully getting your fiance here and working as
soon as possible.

james_k wrote:

    > She pointed out to me yesterday that if the EAD stamp is invalidated
    >
    > immediately upon marriage, then choosing a good POE is pretty much
    >
    > pointless. We'll need to verify this, but it seemed to follow from what
    >
    > we read.

My husband's EAD was valid based on the date of his I-94 expiry. He
arrived on Oct. 20, 2002 and it was good until Jan. 19, 2003. We
married on Nov. 30, 2002. He worked on the initial EAD until Jan. 6,
2003, when we went for our AOS interview (we're in Detroit, and they
were giving nearly instant interviews last year). At that point, we
explained to the officer that his EAD was set to expire, and he approved
a one-year EAD on the spot (our AOS was approved but awaiting the
fingerprints to be processed and we got his greencard in April.)

I have heard some people on this NG discuss whether the EAD stamp is
valid beyond the date of marriage, but I believe it is valid until the
date on the EAD. In our case, it said "employment authorized until Jan
19 2003". Not until "married". So that's my take on it. So finding a
POE that will give the EAD is an option, but there's also the chance
that once she gets there, they won't give her one (that's how arbitrary
and capricious this whole process is!). And then there's the risk that
no matter how quickly you marry and file AOS, it might take so long to
get the 1-year EAD that she can't keep a job (assuming she can find
something in this economy!).

    >> As I said above, the EAD could take longer for a K-3 than a K-
    >> 1, since it is processed differently.
    >
    > Enlightening. I would have assumed otherwise.

The only way to know for sure is to ask others who are using your local
district center for processing. From what I've observed, some local
offices (like Detroit) will process a K-1 EAD on the spot. Others will
process it in 90 days. Others will take times in between or even much
longer (like NYC). But the K-3er filing for their 2 year EAD, I
believe, must file their paperwork through Chicago/Missouri, and then
wait for approval, and then get their physical EAD from their local
office. I've seen this take more than 90 days by some people's report.
I'm not sure where you are in California, but for a more complete
answer, you might search the archives of this group for others who have
used the office you will use.

> She is more like yourself, riskwise, so we may well end up just having a
    >
    > party (without a priest) there and a wedding stateside. But there
    >
    > shouldn't be much risk of being accidentally married in England. It
    > seems
    >
    > to be well guarded by more bureaucratic procedures.

You two will obviously have to balance these issues to make your
decision, but the risk is not that you will end up "accidentally
married". Rather, the risk is that you will not be married, but the
USCIS will THINK you are married, and then you're stuck. Because while
you and she understand that there's a lot more to marriage in the UK
than some words spoken by a priest, now you're counting on the USCIS
being that informed. Not something I would want to rely on, but that's me.

A party in the UK, followed by immigration and a wedding, or
immigration, marriage, filing AOS and then returning to the UK for a
religious ceremony and party, would definitely be better options, IMO.
You guys are going to be stressed out enough about all this immigration
stuff without worrying about mentioning that unofficial "non-ceremony"
when you have your interview. Plus those photos of your religious
ceremony can be evidence of the validity of your marriage, and now you
won't be able to use them when you adjust status or remove conditions or
if/when she wants to file for naturalization, since the natural question
would be "when were these taken?" and suddenly, you're into the issue of
when you were legally married.

    > Here in the US, my parents discovered that it's quite easy to find out
    >
    > that you haven't been married for 30 years, due to an error in the
    >
    > paperwork. Fortunately they had an earlier elopement filed in Vegas.

Now that sounds like an interesting story! :-)

    >
    >>Good luck with your reading, congrats on the engagement (and on not falling down the steps!)
    > >
    > Indeed. Luckily we fell UP the steps.

When my husband proposed, he was on one knee, and I almost threw his
back out by leaping into his arms, poor guy! So I totally understand
your fiance's response. :-) Good luck with your engagement, wedding
plans and slogging through immigration. It is all definitely worth it.
Kristin

meauxna

Can you make a non-tourist entry to the UK at this time? Or do you mean that you would lose your job in the US if you went to the UK now?

anggraeni

Hi James.
I came to USA through Atlanta this year and did NOT get my 90-days EAD. just to let you know

anggraeni

james_k

No such luck. I still have a library card and a bank account in the UK, but sadly that's not enough to qualify for the consulate's residency requirement.
Sadly, I am not so valuable to my employer that I would be assured of getting my job back if I left for 9-24 months.

james_k

From what I've read, Santa Ana does not do on-the-spot processing until after 90 days. A few months down the road I will have to pin them down and get an answer.

Clearly I'll want to run this past an immigration lawyer before we make any firm plans. I ripped the following from a discussion of Art IV of the Constitution:

"Most frequently applied examples of these rules include the following: the rule that a marriage which is good in the country where performed ( lex loci ) is good elsewhere."

The reverse would imply that a marriage that is not legal in the country where performed would not be legal in the US.


If anyone mentions this to my grandmother, I will deny everything. So anyways...
Being very impatient, very young and very religious, my parents quickly eloped to LV before consummating. (This was supposed to be a secret that they were going to take to their graves.) Eight months later, they had a proper wedding with the parents' blessings. Recently while refinancing the house they were asked for the marriage license and were told that it was invalid. Apparently, it should have been taken down to the courthouse within 3 days to be recorded. Fortunately for them, they had a backup license filed in Clark County, Nevada, which does not expect as much responsibility from its newlyweds.